Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[crush]

BTW, my profiler is almost done with your account Surf Futbol. I will share soon. You and Espola seem to have been raised with the bible shoved down your throats. Bible Parent Thumpers were rough on the kids man. Espola shared all about his forced Christian upbringing and being told he had to go to church camp or else he would go to hell. Sound familiar? We do know what he accomplished at church camp though, he bragged about it on here. I'm here to help you if you want it.

 

[Slobodan]

I have answered your questions many times before. It also isn't hard to research why entities like CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, and the USWNT, among many others, support trans participation in youth sports. It is readily and publicly available. Information explaining how the emotional and other disadvantages that trans girls face typically outweigh any purported physical advantages is also readily available. The reasons why trans only leagues are not fair is also readily available. If you want to be anything more than a transphobe, why don't you do some research and then tell me what the arguments are in favor of allowing trans girls to participate with other girls, and then explain why you think they're outweighed by other factors?

No, you actually haven't because I'm new here. I know why the rest participate... it's called "cancel culture" and, thankfully, it's on life support. I asked why YOU don't respect the notion of fair competition for girls when you know the Lia Thomas' of the world, or more appropriately, Thomas Lia, are males with male DNA and a proven physical advantage. I don't really give a rat's ass what you call me. Campaigning for fair treatment of females in sports doesn't make any one a "transphobe" but you're certainly a femalephobe. To answer your last question, a "trans girl" isn't a girl. It's a male with lipstick and long hair.

 

[Slobodan]

There are two main obstacle. One is money. Presumably on the college level this can be fixed easily enough by taking scholarship and funding from the girls and boys programs.

The second is numbers, even if you throw in the FTMs (who have long been underserved) and the nonbinary who want to play in the male-restricted league. For the youth level it's not a practical solution unless you are going to adopt a "busing for all" policy because high schools and below, or club teams, simply don't have enough of them in a sport to make it competitive, particularly if you are talking teams (there might be sufficient for a state championship in a large state like California for individual sports). On the college level, you probably could do something in the individual sports, since we are able to do it for disabilities. On the national and pro level, it becomes easier to aggregate. Conversely, however, when it comes to team sports the impact of one athlete is minimal...the sole exceptions maybe aggregate individual sports (e.g., swim and track teams) and basketball (which is simply just a hard case).

67 pages in we've covered the rest of your post. It's not as simple as saying men are men, women are women: biologically they are literally the brain of the opposite sex trapped in the opposite body...it's a physical condition not a life style choice. No one is changing just so they can get a competitive advantage and win. Yes, men have a physical advantage over women, bell curve to bell curve, but the question is can steps be taken in MTF to mitigate the advantage. It, unlike your post, is complicated.

Grace, men are men and women are women. It really IS that simple and always has been. There's a reason why no female is dominant in a male sport and males ARE dominant in female sports. It can't be any more simple than that. And WTF is "nonbinary"? Pull your pants down. That's what you are. I understand the "physical condition" that is 100% mental. I understand feeling trapped in a body that shouldn't be your own... but in no way does that give the green light for a male, wearing lipstick and a maxi pad under his balls, to play female sports and not say there's an unfair advantage. That, unlike your post, is succinct and logical.

 

[Slobodan]

If your daughter is a terrible soccer player because she is fat and lazy, the two of you should work on that instead of blaming trans children for her inability to win a trophy.

According to you, all females are terrible soccer players because they aren't as good as a male in duct tape and a skirt.

 

[crush]

I dedicate this song to all the Lonesome Losers. You men have stooped to a new low.

 

[SurFutbol]

No, you actually haven't because I'm new here. I know why the rest participate... it's called "cancel culture" and, thankfully, it's on life support. I asked why YOU don't respect the notion of fair competition for girls when you know the Lia Thomas' of the world, or more appropriately, Thomas Lia, are males with male DNA and a proven physical advantage. I don't really give a rat's ass what you call me. Campaigning for fair treatment of females in sports doesn't make any one a "transphobe" but you're certainly a femalephobe. To answer your last question, a "trans girl" isn't a girl. It's a male with lipstick and long hair.

No, what I didn't do is regurgitate the same thing yet again to you, but I have answered your questions here many times. In fact, if you had actually read what I have posted here, you would have known that I believe that the NCAA swim standards were inadequate to the extent they allowed Ms. Thomas to participate in the first place.

It is clear that you have no intention of having a real conversation. Your lack of empathy, your refusal to treat trans children with dignity and respect, unquestionably makes you transphobic. Look, you can claim I hate women all you want, but the truth is allowing trans participation in kiddie soccer is not a zero sum game that hurts girls. In those incredibly rare instances in which a trans child do participate, it can and should be win win for everyone who isn't a transphobic shitbag. I know that. CIF knows it. ECNL knows it. the NCAA knows it. The USWNT knows it. SCOTUS knows it. Vermont's and Connecticut's version of CIF know it. And so apparently does the state of Minnesota. All of these entities have laid out in great detail and plain language why they believe it is more important to allow trans participation in youth sports than to ban it, but you just refuse to listen. It would be one thing if you were willing to participate in a legitimate discussion but simply weighed your arguments against over the arguments in favor, but you won't. You're just like all the rest of the clowns here. I'm sorry if your daughter isn't good enough to compete with a "male with lipstick and long hair" - as you so transphobically characterize trans children - but that speaks only to her lack of ability and your inability to cope with that.

Enjoy all the lost sleep over your irrational fear that trans girls are ruining our country.

 

[Dominic]

Powerlifter transgenders can now compete with females.

 

[SurFutbol]

According to you, all females are terrible soccer players because they aren't as good as a male in duct tape and a skirt.

No, most girls in ECNL are excellent soccer players who have no problems competing against or with trans girls. If anything, your underestimating how well cis girls can do playing with and against the incredibly rare trans girl makes you the "femalephobe" or whatever bs you're whining about. Many girls are far superior soccer players to all of the trans girls who have ever played ECNL or GDA when it was around. Given that you're terrified of trans girls, though, I can only assume that your daughter is terrible at soccer, because she would need to be pretty bad to be unable to compete against a trans girl.

Your comment about "duct tape and a skirt" is pretty offensive and transphobic btw.

 

[Slobodan]

No, what I didn't do is regurgitate the same thing yet again to you, but I have answered your questions here many times. In fact, if you had actually read what I have posted here, you would have known that I believe that the NCAA swim standards were inadequate to the extent they allowed Ms. Thomas to participate in the first place.

It is clear that you have no intention of having a real conversation. Your lack of empathy, your refusal to treat trans children with dignity and respect, unquestionably makes you transphobic. Look, you can claim I hate women all you want, but the truth is allowing trans participation in kiddie soccer is not a zero sum game that hurts girls. In those incredibly rare instances in which a trans child do participate, it can and should be win win for everyone who isn't a transphobic shitbag. I know that. CIF knows it. ECNL knows it. the NCAA knows it. The USWNT knows it. SCOTUS knows it. Vermont's and Connecticut's version of CIF know it. And so apparently does the state of Minnesota. All of these entities have laid out in great detail and plain language why they believe it is more important to allow trans participation in youth sports than to ban it, but you just refuse to listen. It would be one thing if you were willing to participate in a legitimate discussion but simply weighed your arguments against over the arguments in favor, but you won't. You're just like all the rest of the clowns here. I'm sorry if your daughter isn't good enough to compete with a "male with lipstick and long hair" - as you so transphobically characterize trans children - but that speaks only to her lack of ability and your inability to cope with that.

Enjoy all the lost sleep over your irrational fear that trans girls are ruining our country.

I have a life. I'm not going to read 50 of your posts. I asked you a simple question and, what's become very apparent, is you would rather regurgitate a novel than answer directly. Ms. Thomas is a male. He spent years on the UPenn teams swimming and losing his ass as a male. Now he put on some lipstick and dominates. He can identify as a female, a squirrel or a can of pork-n-beans, but he's a male. Second, you keep pulling the victim card as if wanting a fair and equitable situation for females is somehow less important than a trans-(insert identity here). Your opinion is that allowing a male, who wants to be a female, isn't unfair. It's nothing more than your opinion. Know that. The rest of us, as we have since the beginning of time, recognize the physical advantages and that's why there are male, female and co-ed leagues. And we know why liberal Minnesota, etc. all pretend a "trans" person's rights are more important than a females. It's the hot topic right now. Again, it's dying a slow death everyday so prepare yourself. Sanity is coming back. Women fought too long and hard to get it. So until then, you're just a femalephobic shitbag. If a male wants to play sports, play in the boy's league. It's that simple and always has been. Trans males are males. Period. End of story. They aren't females and never will be. They can grow their hair out like Thomas Lia, they can tape their balls down and wear mini skirts... but they'll always be male.

 

[Slobodan]

No, most girls in ECNL are excellent soccer players who have no problems competing against or with trans girls. If anything, your underestimating how well cis girls can do playing with and against the incredibly rare trans girl makes you the "femalephobe" or whatever bs you're whining about. Many girls are far superior soccer players to all of the trans girls who have ever played ECNL or GDA when it was around. Given that you're terrified of trans girls, though, I can only assume that your daughter is terrible at soccer, because she would need to be pretty bad to be unable to compete against a trans girl.

Your comment about "duct tape and a skirt" is pretty offensive and transphobic btw.

No, you don't get to speak for "most girls in ECNL" and what they have a problem with. You don't get to represent them, their opinions or be the voice for those unwilling to speak against it. And stop with "cis"... that's the dumbest term ever created. So if it's "incredibly rare", stop expecting everyone else to accept your bullshit narrative that a male, competing against females in sports, is somehow fair.

And I don't give a shit about what's offensive to you. Why would I or anybody else on this forum? You talk down to everybody. I have read enough of your shit to know that. For the record, I don't fear boys dressed as girls. Nothing is more entertaining than watching a grown man, with facial hair, walking around in a skirt and bow in his hair. LMAO! And I'm not sure how bad all the other NCAA swimmers were that lost to Thomas Lia but I'll bet, given they were NCAA swimmers, they weren't "pretty bad."

 

[SurFutbol]

Powerlifter transgenders can now compete with females.

That is a bit of an overstatement, since the case addressed only MN state laws. Ultimately, I don't think adult trans women should be allowed to compete in women's powerlifting, but the language of the MN laws are what they are. Maybe they need amending, just like the NCAA swim rules proved to need amending. Regardless, there was one critically important sentence in that decision that separates good people from transphobes, and it is this: "The USAPL's evidence of competitive advantage does not take into account any competitive disadvantage a transgender athlete might face from, for example, increased risk of depression and suicide, lack of access to coaching and practice facilities, or other performance suppression common to transgender persons."

Maybe the competitive disadvantages that a trans athlete faces don't outweigh the advantages in some sports. Furthermore, as competition becomes more important at adult and professional levels, probably the relative importance of some factors need to be weighed differently than as applied to children's sports. For example, the risk of depression and suicide in particular probably become less important as factors as children become adults. But the problem is that too many people are unwilling to even consider those disadvantages AT ALL. IF USAPL had just shown a little empathy and actually evaluated the factors that support trans participation instead of essentially telling trans women to f off, and perhaps made minor accommodations to its policies but had reached the same result about competitions, they probably wouldn't be where they are.

 

[SurFutbol]

No, you don't get to speak for "most girls in ECNL" and what they have a problem with. You don't get to represent them, their opinions or be the voice for those unwilling to speak against it. And stop with "cis"... that's the dumbest term ever created. So if it's "incredibly rare", stop expecting everyone else to accept your bullshit narrative that a male, competing against females in sports, is somehow fair.

And I don't give a shit about what's offensive to you. Why would I or anybody else on this forum? You talk down to everybody. I have read enough of your shit to know that. For the record, I don't fear boys dressed as girls. Nothing is more entertaining than watching a grown man, with facial hair, walking around in a skirt and bow in his hair. LMAO! And I'm not sure how bad all the other NCAA swimmers were that lost to Thomas Lia but I'll bet, given they were NCAA swimmers, they weren't "pretty bad."

You ok buddy?

It isn't my narrative btw. The only difference between my position and that of CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the UWSNT, SCOTUS, the state of MN, and Vermont's version of CIF is that I'm less diplomatic with people who are clearly transphobic, but we all believe the exact same thing. I gave you every opportunity to look into their positions on your own, but you refused. I wouldn't be talking down to you if weren't making derogatory comments about people for simply being trans and were actually willing to have a legitimate conversation.

 

[Slobodan]

You ok buddy?

It isn't my narrative btw. The only difference between my position and that of CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the UWSNT, SCOTUS, the state of MN, Vermont's version of CIF is that I'm less diplomatic with people who are clearly transphobic, but we all believe the exact same thing. I gave you every opportunity to look into their positions on your own, but you refused. I wouldn't be talking down to you if weren't making derogatory comments about people for simply being trans and were actually willing to have a legitimate conversation.

Yeah, quite fine, thanks for asking... buddy. We all know why XYZ... entity supports it for now. But that political correctness garbage is dying because people are getting their voices back. Women are getting their voices back. And I've yet to see you defend your position that males don't have a physical advantage over females. Maybe evolution is too much for you to overcome? Hunters and gatherers.

You aren't diplomatic to anybody... and I never planned to be diplomatic with you. I asked a simple question you refuse to answer. It's okay because I knew you wouldn't. I have no problem with trans people and couldn't care less about what they want, or think they want, to be. Just don't expect everyone else to live in your fantasy world with you. Don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don't expect people to accept your unfair advantage in a sport that plays to physical advantage. Trans people aren't special. Unique, but not special.

 

[SurFutbol]

Yeah, quite fine, thanks for asking... buddy. We all know why XYZ... entity supports it for now. But that political correctness garbage is dying because people are getting their voices back. Women are getting their voices back. And I've yet to see you defend your position that males don't have a physical advantage over females. Maybe evolution is too much for you to overcome? Hunters and gatherers.

You aren't diplomatic to anybody... and I never planned to be diplomatic with you. I asked a simple question you refuse to answer. It's okay because I knew you wouldn't. I have no problem with trans people and couldn't care less about what they want, or think they want, to be. Just don't expect everyone else to live in your fantasy world with you. Don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don't expect people to accept your unfair advantage in a sport that plays to physical advantage. Trans people aren't special. Unique, but not special.

Women like the USWNT?

Like these women? Over 465 feminist leaders sign open letter standing in solidarity with transgender women and girls, including Gloria Steinem, Regina King, Halle Berry, Selena Gomez, Chelsea Clinton, Gabrielle Union, and more | GLAAD

Like these women? Billie Jean King, Megan Rapinoe, and Candace Parker Join Nearly 200 Athletes Supporting Trans Youth Participation in Sports - Women's Sports Foundation (womenssportsfoundation.org)

Like all the women on SCOTUS?

 

[Slobodan]

Women like the USWNT?

Like these women? Over 465 feminist leaders sign open letter standing in solidarity with transgender women and girls, including Gloria Steinem, Regina King, Halle Berry, Selena Gomez, Chelsea Clinton, Gabrielle Union, and more | GLAAD

Like these women? Billie Jean King, Megan Rapinoe, and Candace Parker Join Nearly 200 Athletes Supporting Trans Youth Participation in Sports - Women's Sports Foundation (womenssportsfoundation.org)

Like all the women on SCOTUS?

Shocking... lesbians and celebrities (who need to avoid appearing insensitive or damage their careers) supporting the trans community. How liberal of them.

Simple question. Do me a favor and forgo the novel on this one. Why do you think it's fair to allow males to compete against females in a sport like soccer?

 

[Chelsea dad g09]

You ok buddy?

It isn't my narrative btw. The only difference between my position and that of CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the UWSNT, SCOTUS, the state of MN, and Vermont's version of CIF is that I'm less diplomatic with people who are clearly transphobic, but we all believe the exact same thing. I gave you every opportunity to look into their positions on your own, but you refused. I wouldn't be talking down to you if weren't making derogatory comments about people for simply being trans and were actually willing to have a legitimate conversation.

You mean have a legitimate conversation that's in agreement with your opinion. Your hypocrisy reeks worse than your dirty taint. Btw why are you dodging the fact that you insulted overweight girls? Embarrassed by your own words or you stand by them?

 

[Grace T.]

Well, there you ago again. First off, who was Paul addressing and why?

Prevailing thought is they were not in fact written by Paul, but were written by his cadre to stamp out certain heresies creeping up in the early church.

Grace, men are men and women are women. It really IS that simple and always has been. There's a reason why no female is dominant in a male sport and males ARE dominant in female sports. It can't be any more simple than that. And WTF is "nonbinary"? Pull your pants down. That's what you are. I understand the "physical condition" that is 100% mental. I understand feeling trapped in a body that shouldn't be your own... but in no way does that give the green light for a male, wearing lipstick and a maxi pad under his balls, to play female sports and not say there's an unfair advantage. That, unlike your post, is succinct and logical.

you can’t even see how stupid this rhetorical statement is. If a post surgical mtf pulls their pants down they won’t see a snake. Under your logic post surgical mtf are ok to play in the f division. Quite a box you built yourself

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

 

[Grace T.]

Yeah, quite fine, thanks for asking... buddy. We all know why XYZ... entity supports it for now. But that political correctness garbage is dying because people are getting their voices back. Women are getting their voices back. And I've yet to see you defend your position that males don't have a physical advantage over females. Maybe evolution is too much for you to overcome? Hunters and gatherers.

You aren't diplomatic to anybody... and I never planned to be diplomatic with you. I asked a simple question you refuse to answer. It's okay because I knew you wouldn't. I have no problem with trans people and couldn't care less about what they want, or think they want, to be. Just don't expect everyone else to live in your fantasy world with you. Don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don't expect people to accept your unfair advantage in a sport that plays to physical advantage. Trans people aren't special. Unique, but not special.

“I have no problem with blind people. I couldn’t care less about what they want, or think they want, to do. Just don’t expect everyone else to ltheir lives around you. Dont expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don’t expect people to shell out our hard earned money for things like brail signs and cross walks that talk. Blind people aren’t special. Unique, but not special”

bias comes in all sorts of forms. Sometimes you can’t even see it’s there. The “I couldn’t care less about what they want” reminds me when they said and still say the same thing about gay people.

it’s fine to argue an accommodation is unreasonable. Then you have to justify why attempts to balance play such as hormones therapy or surgery are unreasonable. That’s a science data thing you haven’t put forward. It’s not ok to say the accommodation doesn’t need to be considered or that the person doesn’t have the right to such consideration. And if the accommodation is not reasonable you are obligated to advance another…it’s not sufficient to say too bad so sad oh well. Sorry life is complicated. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy.

 

[crush]

Prevailing thought is they were not in fact written by Paul, but were written by his cadre to stamp out certain heresies creeping up in the early church.

CH1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Yeshua our hope,

To Timothy my true son in the faith:

Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jeshua our Lord.

Timothy, my son, I (Not God) am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Ch 2
I (Paul, not God) also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman (a wife or wives) should learn in quietness and full submission. I (Paul, not God) do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Crush's commentary: I'm learning Greek btw. The English are brutal with their meanings of words and much can be lost in translation and can come across as harsh and folks like Surf Futbol blame God for Paul's instruction to his son in the faith. Paul (or his cadre) wrote to Timothy and not us, that's for sure. It's a rough writing and interesting that these letters were added to the 66. I wasn't living among those Gentiles back then but from what I have read, it was intense and wild. Also, most of the Gentile men back then had more than one wife when they converted to Christ and got baptized. Woman=wife. Man=husband. Lost in the translations. Legend has it that some woman were not converts yet, just the hubby but they wanted to speak. Some hubbies and their three wives all got baptized and all of the wives wanted to get their two cents in. It was confusion everywhere. I know many church that take these letters as directives for today and force it down the likes of little Espola's when he was 13 and that is not fun for teens. I say that with full empathy. Take a letter that Paul wrote 2000 years ago and force it on the woman of today is brutal at best.

 

[Slobodan]

That is a bit of an overstatement, since the case addressed only MN state laws. Ultimately, I don't think adult trans women should be allowed to compete in women's powerlifting, but the language of the MN laws are what they are. Maybe they need amending, just like the NCAA swim rules proved to need amending. Regardless, there was one critically important sentence in that decision that separates good people from transphobes, and it is this: "The USAPL's evidence of competitive advantage does not take into account any competitive disadvantage a transgender athlete might face from, for example, increased risk of depression and suicide, lack of access to coaching and practice facilities, or other performance suppression common to transgender persons."

Maybe the competitive disadvantages that a trans athlete faces don't outweigh the advantages in some sports. Furthermore, as competition becomes more important at adult and professional levels, probably the relative importance of some factors need to be weighed differently than as applied to children's sports. For example, the risk of depression and suicide in particular probably become less important as factors as children become adults. But the problem is that too many people are unwilling to even consider those disadvantages AT ALL. IF USAPL had just shown a little empathy and actually evaluated the factors that support trans participation instead of essentially telling trans women to f off, and perhaps made minor accommodations to its policies but had reached the same result about competitions, they probably wouldn't be where they are.

You know the fastest way to end transphobia? Stop seeking attention. Stop waving signs around. Stop having parades. And whatever you do, don't act like the rest of us have to pay for your surgeries. Your "life threatening condition" is no worse than anyone else's depression and you aren't entitled to nip and tuck on everyone our dime.

I told a gay, male friend the same thing. Stop being obnoxious and waving your sexuality in everyone's face. Nobody cares. Being militant apparently gets you the attention you seek because, otherwise, you'd just be gay and shut up about it like heterosexual people do.

 

[Slobodan]

“I have no problem with blind people. I couldn’t care less about what they want, or think they want, to do. Just don’t expect everyone else to ltheir lives around you. Dont expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don’t expect people to shell out our hard earned money for things like brail signs and cross walks that talk. Blind people aren’t special. Unique, but not special”

bias comes in all sorts of forms. Sometimes you can’t even see it’s there. The “I couldn’t care less about what they want” reminds me when they said and still say the same thing about gay people.

it’s fine to argue an accommodation is unreasonable. Then you have to justify why attempts to balance play such as hormones therapy or surgery are unreasonable. That’s a science data thing you haven’t put forward. It’s not ok to say the accommodation doesn’t need to be considered or that the person doesn’t have the right to such consideration. And if the accommodation is not reasonable you are obligated to advance another…it’s not sufficient to say too bad so sad oh well. Sorry life is complicated. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy.

You want an accommodation for transexual athletes? Great. Create transexual leagues. Problem solved. OR... those males in lipstick can compete with other males... since that's what they really are anyway. Or in SurFutbol's case, let's allow people that see to play in a blind person league. Should I just say I "identify" as blind?