You challenge our assertion that the death count was being inflated by people dying with COVID instead of of COVID.
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
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You challenge our assertion that the death count was being inflated by people dying with COVID instead of of COVID.
That's not even grammatical.
If you can't show the words I used, there is no way I can respond.
Lame dodge. You know what you said and I knew you'd never own up to it.
5% is an error. 25% is fraud.The walls keep crumbling around the pro lockdowners. I seem to recall espola telling us this wasn't happening and we were making stuff up. Of course they'll never admit they are wrong.....
Alameda County’s new COVID death toll is 25% lower than thought
County health officials reviewed COVID-19 death records and found 411 cases that were "clearly not" caused by the disease.oaklandside.org
I'm not dodging. I'm asking you to be specific with your charges, Ms. Attorney.
BTW,, "The walls keep crumbling around the pro lockdowners" is grace-less dancing on dead people's graves -- hundreds of thousands of them, even if the 25% adjustment holds nationwide.
And if you had read beyond the headline and not just trusted what you had been told the article was about, you would have seen that the problem was specific to one county where they were not following the California guidelines for attributing deaths to covid.
The county’s original method was to attribute a death to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider (like a hospital) listed someone as being positive for the coronavirus at the time of their death.
Balram said the state’s definition was different: A death can only be attributed to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider can show that the person died “as a direct result of COVID-19, with COVID-19 as a contributing cause of death, or in whom death caused by COVID-19 could not be ruled out.” The state came up with this definition late last year in the middle of the pandemic, after Alameda County was already using its method.
“Obviously our definition was broader than the state’s,” Balram said, adding the 411 deaths being removed were “clearly not COVID.”
Seems to be another person who didn't read the article.
you said it didn’t happen. We now have 3 instances of an over count: Ventura county, alameda county and nation wide pediatric deaths and hospitalizations. Can’t ever admit you are wrong, huh?
hows it been feeling for the walls of the lockdown church to be tumbling down and your patron saints being tarnished?
I think we all know that threads on this topic were deleted in the ‘off topic’ purge of 2020 so direct quotes of prior comments may be inaccessible.
I’ll step out here to say again (only alluded to recently)... your ‘burden of proof’ seems to be very heavily skewed depending on the poster in question and their point of view.
Question everything as a pragmatist if you like, but you don’t question everyone or demand the same level of empirical support from everyone, only those you disagree with…
In fairness, I think he said (approximation from memory) ‘even if there is over counting it is still less than the unreported deaths’… maybe that was dad4, but that was what I recall and I don’t feel the urge to read through all the prior posts to confirm or deny what one individual is unwilling to research on their own to contradict your statement.
The conversation began when I told him what my relatives observed which is exactly what’s outlined in the article. He challenged it by citing a Medicare article saying it didn’t happen and asking me to prove it. I cited a post from an investigation in Ventura county now in the deleted thread. Since then we’ve also had the pediatric report and alameda county
I have no evidence one way or another if there is an undercount. It’s possible. All I know both from the direct observation of certain relatives and now in 3 press sources that there is an overcount. How much of one who knows.
I have never considered myself to be in anything that might be called "the lockdown church". One of my children lost his job when his company dissolved when their market (sports and theater ticket brokerage) completely disappeared. Another was on unemployment for a while until his workplace (auto dealer) opened back up.
I don't know where you get your fantasies from.
Sorry to hear about your kids but they are exactly why we fight the fight
but if we are being honest here, your denials not withstanding, you have been on the pro lockdowner side of things from the beginning. To say you haven’t been a supporter of dad 4 and his church is beyond disingenuous
On more than one occasion I pointed out that Medicare/Medicaid pays a premium to hospitals because of the increased costs of dealing with covid patients, even if that is not the reason they entered the hospital.
My entire career depended on finding objective truths in my work. If I had just stuck with wishful thinking, very little that I produced would have worked, so it's a habit to look for background information to back up claims. If you just want to be post anything without being challenged, then perhaps you should stay away from public debates. "My uncle told me..." or "Ted Cruz says..." isn't going to cut it.
From what I have seen, dad4 is more often correct in what he says than you are. I don't see how my recognition of that fact makes me a "lockdowner". If anything, I am a bemused onlooker, although I skip over entire pages of the thread when you two are arguing about what it is that you're arguing about.
Consider a debate between persons A and B that I find interesting or already have some knowledge about -- if I find or know already facts that support what person A says, and find nothing to back up what person B says, which one should I challenge?
You said it didn’t happen. It did. When I’ve been wrong I’ve said it including when you called me on the carpet re congressional expulsion. You can’t even muster up that courage to say “ok maybe I was wrong about it”
That’s hilarious because truth is the farthest thing you are about. Your entire thing has been to side with the experts and to side with the lockdowner church. As n008 points out you have different standards of proof depending on the subject and the poster. For you to deny it now, now that the walls are coming down is sad. At least dad4 has the courage of his faith, which I can say at least I admire even if it is just faith
Still nothing specific. You're just badgering.
You’ll try any tactic to avoid admitting you are wrong, won’t you?
All you have presented is handwaving claims. There is no logical way to respond to that except to point out what you are doing.
typical espola. Any tactic to avoid admitting you were wrong.