Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[Chelsea dad g09]

As a reminder, here is your first interaction with me. As you will see, I explained one of the many reasons that CIF, ECNL, the USWNT, the NCAA and the US Supreme Court all agree with me. No "trolling", no offensive commentary, nothing other than polite conversation with someone who wasn't being a phobic ass at the time. In response, you call me a "hypocritical fuck" because I don't share your position. Thereafter, you directed multiple homophobic insults my way, including in this post, and repeatedly refused to even state your position on the matter. Yet here you are claiming I'm the troll and accusing me of being the one who doesn't want to debate, despite you repeatedly and publicly refusing to state any position on the matter or provide any commentary other than to direct phobic insults at me. Wow, you lack self-awareness.

Look, it is clear you don't have much education and haven't done well in life. When I said you have a hard time putting together your thoughts in your head, it's pretty clearly true. You're almost certainly underemployed if not unemployed, and your behavior here also suggests that you have substance abuse problems as well. Given how seriously you take my satire, you probably also suffer from more than a little depression. To the extent I've mocked you for relying on your daughter's soccer ability to prop up your self-esteem, I bet it is true and cuts pretty deep.

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First, if you cant put together the fact that you're calling for empathy towards one group of kids feelings while putting another groups feelings down and that's why I called you an hypocritical fuck, then you overpaid for your education.

Second, if it's too hard for you to figure out that I dont give two shits about engaging with you because you dont want a conversation, you just want your opinion and insult everyone who disagrees with you, then you're as dumb as we all thought you overgrown turd. I'm treating you as you treat others on this board and you obviously cant see it so take it as you will which is probably in some triggered, take offense to everything way.

Keep calling everyone transphobes and everything else under the sun because you said so obviously it must be true. I've no doubt you reported my posts, maybe I'll get banned so I can come back under a different name and be as pathetic as you. Now sit down you abortion reject.

 

[sockma]

Another flaw in your logic relating to Brown v. Board of Education is that it took a US Supreme Court decision - often followed by the freakin' National Guard - to move the ball forward on equality through affirmative action because asking people politely was not working. Yet here you are saying we should just ask oppressors to be nicer and, presto, the problem will go away. The reality, however, is that Brown v. Board of Education was the direct result of the fact that trying to do things your way doesn't work. And even when people are forced to stop being horribly phobic, it takes decades to meaningfully effectuate it.

The analogy I used in Brown v Board and your usage of the football players, is the same. The sole purpose is the integration of people as one rather than move them to different schools or leagues. Let's not dwell on the differences as the two plights are also extremely different. Race has always been a known issue while transgender kids haven't really been known to most of society until the last decade. When we were growing up, we just had more feminine guys and more masculine girls. We didn't even know there was a thing as transgender.

Once society was aware of the transgender population, most of us have been respectful. There are a few loud people who have shown a lot of disrespect, and you're asking us to make new rules to accommodate for people that are jerks towards transgenders in boy sports. Most of us agree with you on this.

The thing we disagree on is: "What new rules should we put in place to make the jerks know that they can't mistreat transgenders in youth sports?"

Your idea is to push the boys into the girls league. For two reason, I don't think this is a good idea: (1) You're telling the boys they need to fit into this new group now because they aren't good enough to fit into the "Boys" group. (2) It's making people- who never had a negative thought about transgenders before, resent transgenders in the long run (society just started building this girls league up-with the basis that girls can't compete against boys in sports), which is already manifesting itself.

I think we should ban parents/coaches/players/humans who make comments about transgender kids from youth soccer games. First offense should be 3 games, second offense is a season, and third offense is a lifetime. In addition, we should use those moments as a teaching moments for the entire soccer community to emphasize the differences in human beings. On the soccer field, we critique soccer skills and sportsmanship, NOTHING ELSE.

You're absolutely right, social change takes a long time because there's a lot of us and life is complex. Further, we don't know what new issues might arise with our solutions - that's why we discuss them to see the possibilities. Any other belief is self indulgent and reveals a god complex issue. We are not children where we think that baking a cake takes less than two minutes as per TikTok. We are adults with life experiences and know the complexities of problems and life itself.

 

[dad4]

The analogy I used in Brown v Board and your usage of the football players, is the same. The sole purpose is the integration of people as one rather than move them to different schools or leagues. Let's not dwell on the differences as the two plights are also extremely different. Race has always been a known issue while transgender kids haven't really been known to most of society until the last decade. When we were growing up, we just had more feminine guys and more masculine girls. We didn't even know there was a thing as transgender.

Once society was aware of the transgender population, most of us have been respectful. There are a few loud people who have shown a lot of disrespect, and you're asking us to make new rules to accommodate for people that are jerks towards transgenders in boy sports. Most of us agree with you on this.

The thing we disagree on is: "What new rules should we put in place to make the jerks know that they can't mistreat transgenders in youth sports?"

Your idea is to push the boys into the girls league. For two reason, I don't think this is a good idea: (1) You're telling the boys they need to fit into this new group now because they aren't good enough to fit into the "Boys" group. (2) It's making people- who never had a negative thought about transgenders before, resent transgenders in the long run (society just started building this girls league up-with the basis that girls can't compete against boys in sports), which is already manifesting itself.

I think we should ban parents/coaches/players/humans who make comments about transgender kids from youth soccer games. First offense should be 3 games, second offense is a season, and third offense is a lifetime. In addition, we should use those moments as a teaching moments for the entire soccer community to emphasize the differences in human beings. On the soccer field, we critique soccer skills and sportsmanship, NOTHING ELSE.

You're absolutely right, social change takes a long time because there's a lot of us and life is complex. Further, we don't know what new issues might arise with our solutions - that's why we discuss them to see the possibilities. Any other belief is self indulgent and reveals a god complex issue. We are not children where we think that baking a cake takes less than two minutes as per TikTok. We are adults with life experiences and know the complexities of problems and life itself.

No rule change is needed. Refs already have the ability to issue red cards for abusive language towards another player.

I never had to use it. But, if your game has a kid taunting “puta”, it’s easy enough to kick them out.

Just don’t expect a deep change from it. It’s a muzzle, not a change of heart.

 

[SurFutbol]

First, if you cant put together the fact that you're calling for empathy towards one group of kids feelings while putting another groups feelings down and that's why I called you an hypocritical fuck, then you overpaid for your education.

Second, if it's too hard for you to figure out that I dont give two shits about engaging with you because you dont want a conversation, you just want your opinion and insult everyone who disagrees with you, then you're as dumb as we all thought you overgrown turd. I'm treating you as you treat others on this board and you obviously cant see it so take it as you will which is probably in some triggered, take offense to everything way.

Keep calling everyone transphobes and everything else under the sun because you said so obviously it must be true. I've no doubt you reported my posts, maybe I'll get banned so I can come back under a different name and be as pathetic as you. Now sit down you abortion reject.

Speculating that I reported you? Don't flatter yourself. But why would I do that anyway? As I've already explained, it's hateful, transphobic people like you who make the best possible case for trans gender participation in kiddie sports.

I will say that self-pity and narcissism are clear indicators of substance abusers.

 

[Chelsea dad g09]

Speculating that I reported you? Don't flatter yourself. But why would I do that anyway? As I've already explained, it's hateful, transphobic people like you who make the best possible case for trans gender participation in kiddie sports.

I will say that self-pity and narcissism are clear indicators of substance abusers.

And hypocritical dickheads always show their true colors.

 

[Grace T.]

The analogy I used in Brown v Board and your usage of the football players, is the same. The sole purpose is the integration of people as one rather than move them to different schools or leagues. Let's not dwell on the differences as the two plights are also extremely different. Race has always been a known issue while transgender kids haven't really been known to most of society until the last decade. When we were growing up, we just had more feminine guys and more masculine girls. We didn't even know there was a thing as transgender.

Once society was aware of the transgender population, most of us have been respectful. There are a few loud people who have shown a lot of disrespect, and you're asking us to make new rules to accommodate for people that are jerks towards transgenders in boy sports. Most of us agree with you on this.

The thing we disagree on is: "What new rules should we put in place to make the jerks know that they can't mistreat transgenders in youth sports?"

Your idea is to push the boys into the girls league. For two reason, I don't think this is a good idea: (1) You're telling the boys they need to fit into this new group now because they aren't good enough to fit into the "Boys" group. (2) It's making people- who never had a negative thought about transgenders before, resent transgenders in the long run (society just started building this girls league up-with the basis that girls can't compete against boys in sports), which is already manifesting itself.

I think we should ban parents/coaches/players/humans who make comments about transgender kids from youth soccer games. First offense should be 3 games, second offense is a season, and third offense is a lifetime. In addition, we should use those moments as a teaching moments for the entire soccer community to emphasize the differences in human beings. On the soccer field, we critique soccer skills and sportsmanship, NOTHING ELSE.

You're absolutely right, social change takes a long time because there's a lot of us and life is complex. Further, we don't know what new issues might arise with our solutions - that's why we discuss them to see the possibilities. Any other belief is self indulgent and reOveals a god complex issue. We are not children where we think that baking a cake takes less than two minutes as per TikTok. We are adults with life experiences and know the complexities of problems and life itself.

Presumably then you are ok with the FTM playing with the girls, even if they are on testosterone, at least on the youth level because we do not test other girls for testosterone (cheating) usage?

What then to do with the the MTFS that are on chemical and/or surgical changes, either on the youth level or college levels. You haven't disputed the science that after some time they can no longer keep up with the cis M that are actively on testosterone. Again, the con position always conveniently overlooks like this fact. What's the answer there? Is your hope that society becomes so accepting that MTFS no longer feel the need for chemical and surgical change? What if they disagree with you and do it anyway? You going to prohibit them (even if they are over 18) from doing so? Or if they go against the way you want it to work, it's just too bad soo sad you made your choice and you are SOL?

 

[crush]

Here are da facts: I've been dealing with a few Docs and a few fathers who got their hands on the soccer cookie jar or some like to say the Holy Grail of youth soccer. Karma is here, FYI! One of them has been after me and my dd for over 6 years and your seeing his true colors come out more & more. I will admit I did not know how deep this went. I heard of the "Hot Tub" rub downs but I didn't believe it and now I see how demented & perverted these men truly are. They hide behind lies and use kids to get their way. They love to dress up like women and also take positions and jobs away from women because they only care about themselves and their fetishes. It creeped in slowly with the creepers but now were are seeing the truth. He's right, all these organizations support this. It's sad because real females have been abused by these monsters. Yelled at, fat shamed, lied to and so much more. It's all coming out and Bogs will be dealt with. Just like Andy, all the girls will be set free soon.

 

[sockma]

No rule change is needed. Refs already have the ability to issue red cards for abusive language towards another player.

I never had to use it. But, if your game has a kid taunting “puta”, it’s easy enough to kick them out.

Just don’t expect a deep change from it. It’s a muzzle, not a change of heart.

Sometimes a muzzle changes the heart because they'll have to think about why a muzzle was needed. The family might also bring up the issue of, "why was it more important for you to say those things to a person just playing soccer, then focus on watching your kid play or hanging out with family on the sideline. " This creates conversation and forces deeper thoughts to dive into why. Most of the time, it's just new things scare humans and it's easier to blame something you aren't familiar with than something you already know is harmless.

 

[sockma]

Presumably then you are ok with the FTM playing with the girls, even if they are on testosterone, at least on the youth level because we do not test other girls for testosterone (cheating) usage?

What then to do with the the MTFS that are on chemical and/or surgical changes, either on the youth level or college levels. You haven't disputed the science that after some time they can no longer keep up with the cis M that are actively on testosterone. Again, the con position always conveniently overlooks like this fact. What's the answer there? Is your hope that society becomes so accepting that MTFS no longer feel the need for chemical and surgical change? What if they disagree with you and do it anyway? You going to prohibit them (even if they are over 18) from doing so? Or if they go against the way you want it to work, it's just too bad soo sad you made your choice and you are SOL?

I think your argument about cheaters and FTM doesn't sit well with me because you're likening them to cheaters. What does that do to a group of kids that already have a lot of emotional issues to deal with? Telling them, "hey you're ok to change leagues because cheaters aren't getting caught. You're like a cheater so go ahead!" That will just create more emotional problems for them. It's also a strange argument for an adult to use in their encouragement of a child or any human.

If you liken trans to a disability - which I don't- have you thought about putting them in disabled groups? We have those for sports for disabled kids. I'm not suggesting this at all as I do not think they are disabled.

Grace - why do the trans kids want to compete with the opposite sex? Is it because they want to compete for fun or because they want to be the best at it and win competitions?

 

[SurFutbol]

The analogy I used in Brown v Board and your usage of the football players, is the same. The sole purpose is the integration of people as one rather than move them to different schools or leagues. Let's not dwell on the differences as the two plights are also extremely different. Race has always been a known issue while transgender kids haven't really been known to most of society until the last decade. When we were growing up, we just had more feminine guys and more masculine girls. We didn't even know there was a thing as transgender.

Once society was aware of the transgender population, most of us have been respectful. There are a few loud people who have shown a lot of disrespect, and you're asking us to make new rules to accommodate for people that are jerks towards transgenders in boy sports. Most of us agree with you on this.

The thing we disagree on is: "What new rules should we put in place to make the jerks know that they can't mistreat transgenders in youth sports?"

Your idea is to push the boys into the girls league. For two reason, I don't think this is a good idea: (1) You're telling the boys they need to fit into this new group now because they aren't good enough to fit into the "Boys" group. (2) It's making people- who never had a negative thought about transgenders before, resent transgenders in the long run (society just started building this girls league up-with the basis that girls can't compete against boys in sports), which is already manifesting itself.

I think we should ban parents/coaches/players/humans who make comments about transgender kids from youth soccer games. First offense should be 3 games, second offense is a season, and third offense is a lifetime. In addition, we should use those moments as a teaching moments for the entire soccer community to emphasize the differences in human beings. On the soccer field, we critique soccer skills and sportsmanship, NOTHING ELSE.

You're absolutely right, social change takes a long time because there's a lot of us and life is complex. Further, we don't know what new issues might arise with our solutions - that's why we discuss them to see the possibilities. Any other belief is self indulgent and reveals a god complex issue. We are not children where we think that baking a cake takes less than two minutes as per TikTok. We are adults with life experiences and know the complexities of problems and life itself.

I'm not asking for any new rules. Transgender participation in sports has been around for decades.

BTW, referring to trans girls as "boys" is disrespectful. I will flatter you for now because you seem to be trying, but if you want to have a legitimate conversation, you need to refer to trans girls as girls. Period. Regardless, to the extent you claim that I am telling trans girls that they "need to fit into this new group now because they aren't good enough to fit into the "boys" group", that is not even close to true. I'm not making them do it, and they can still play on the boys' side if they wish, which many may still do, especially if they are in a rare place where it is a safe environment. What I am saying is that trans girls should be allowed to participate in kiddie sports with the same gender with which they identify if that is important to them. Until you can understand and accept that making trans girls play with boys when they want to play with those with whom they identify is like making your daughter play with boys when she wants to play with girls, it's hard to have a real conversation. Until you can sympathize with and accept that as a legitimate issue that should be considered as part of the decision-making process, there is no point in having a conversation with you.

A policy of suspending those who "make comments" about transgender kids just doesn't work. First, it does nothing to stop transphobic behavior and discrimination that falls short of incredibly obvious statements. Second, and similarly, it is really hard to prove intent. If a player mauls a transgender player with a hard foul because they're transphobic, of course they won't admit it. Third, there will woefully insufficient enforcement. You assume that everyone who make the decisions on behalf of soccer clubs and leagues actually support pro-trans policies, and it is a fantasy to believe that is the case. It is also woefully inadequate for the same reason that asking people politely to not discriminate against black people in schools was ineffective, why it took 30 years after Brown v. Board of Education to reach some semblance of equal treatment but, even then, significant numbers of people work around it by fleeing to private schools or other "white flight" to places where they don't have to "worry" about black people. All you are doing is burying your head in the sand about how trans children are really treated in the U.S.

 

[SurFutbol]

Grace - why do the trans kids want to compete with the opposite sex? Is it because they want to compete for fun or because they want to be the best at it and win competitions?

Neither. It is usually because they identify with other girls. They want to participate on girls' teams for the same reason that your daughter wants to participate on girls' teams. It is also frequently because they know, often from personal experience, what it is like to participate on boys' teams. It is often abusive and physically dangerous.

 

[sockma]

Neither. It is usually because they identify with other girls. They want to participate on girls' teams for the same reason that your daughter wants to participate on girls' teams. It is also frequently because they know, often from personal experience, what it is like to participate on boys' teams. It is often abusive and physically dangerous.

I have boys and girls.

What is abusive and physically dangerous about being on a boy's team? I'm seriously asking for the specifics. They do dumb things and say dumb things but I find the girls to be the same way. Kids and Teenagers.

This new generation is much better than our generation when we were kids in accepting people. They're still kids but for the most part, they've really surprised me in how they are much more accepting of differences.

I think we need to correct the abusive and physically dangerous nature of those teams because those behaviors shouldn't be accepted and ignored.

 

[Grace T.]

I think your argument about cheaters and FTM doesn't sit well with me because you're likening them to cheaters. What does that do to a group of kids that already have a lot of emotional issues to deal with? Telling them, "hey you're ok to change leagues because cheaters aren't getting caught. You're like a cheater so go ahead!" That will just create more emotional problems for them. It's also a strange argument for an adult to use in their encouragement of a child or any human.

If you liken trans to a disability - which I don't- have you thought about putting them in disabled groups? We have those for sports for disabled kids. I'm not suggesting this at all as I do not think they are disabled.

Grace - why do the trans kids want to compete with the opposite sex? Is it because they want to compete for fun or because they want to be the best at it and win competitions?

Your either ducking the question or your not following the logical thread. Let's try again. Hypothetical: under your system, you have a teen FTM who is taking testosterone supplements to look more like a male. You may not like it, but that's what they want to do. Do you allow them to continue to play with the girls in a youth system where we aren't testing for testosterone (no one else besides the trans kid is subjected to testing)?

The disabled groups are categorized as well. You don't have people who have lost limbs, for example, competing against people who are blind, competing against say people who are autistic and functionally disabled. you may lump them in together in the rec level (say for example AYSO VIP) but that's because of a shortage of critical mass in locations and for those athletes that go on to do competitive, they'll generally from there on out as they get older have to travel. On the competitive level, there are different brackets for different disabilities so no you wouldn't lump them in with other disabled people. You would lump them in (assuming you can't achieve competitive balance through interventions) with other FTM and MTFs as well as nonbinary who choose to compete in the male-restricted category.

I think you entirely miss the point for why a trans kid would want to compete with the gender preference they've expressed. It's because they want to live their life in total from getting up to falling asleep, as that gender. It becomes a part of who you are. They aren't "competing for fun" or to "win competitions". That's not the function....it's to fit in. Dad4 said it best: it's about the hair bow, not the training....they aren't soccer robots. It's about having interpersonal relationships with people who are women and who will relate to you as a woman. It's about being part of a group that all get the matching hairbows. Indeed, we see it in the choices right now FTM are subjected to: some have chosen to transition and to take the competitive hit against men (there was even a profile I posted in the NYT) in order to fit in and have those relationships (at the cost of their competitiveness), while some have chosen to put off their transitions until they can no longer compete in sports because the competition is more important to them. Being human, they will come to different answers.

 

[Grace T.]

They do dumb things and say dumb things but I find the girls to be the same way.

No, they don't. Again men and women are different, including mentally and emotionally. The boys will be more aggressive in hostility...physical and taunting. Girls have a tendency to ostracize and put down. If you want the cites, the Jordan Peterson lessons all go into this. Men generally have a tendency to be more aggressive...women tend to be more agreeable. Now this doesn't mean that you can't have a more aggressive woman than any particular given man. But bell curve to bell curve, it's been shown quite solidly (and this research is in and complete) that men and women react interpersonally to people very very differently. You are free to argue about whether that's a social construct or not, or if it is biological, but at the present time, it is a fact.

 

[crush]

No, they don't. Again men and women are different, including mentally and emotionally. The boys will be more aggressive in hostility...physical and taunting. Girls have a tendency to ostracize and put down.

So it's ok for Lia and other grown men and young soon to be men, who are the aggressors, to take out their aggression on the biologicals females? Man + Physical Power + Taunting=Send them to the females. Oh joy!!

 

[Grace T.]

So it's ok for Lia and other grown men and young soon to be men, who are the aggressors, to take out their aggression on the biologicals females? Man + Physical Power + Taunting=Send them to the females. Oh joy!!

1. We've already established that trans MTF brains are already different than M brains and bear many if not most of the characteristics of a F brain. Mentally, they are more like women than they are men. They say one of the pillars of soccer in addition to the technical tactical and physical is mental....going to dad4's point about the trans MTF pre treatment being equal to a cis M....it may turn out to be that they aren't even just because of the mental (and its resulting physical side effects)....less aggressive.
2. A lot of the aggression is caused by the testosterone juice. If you block the testosterone juice, that's another one to go on.
3. Last I checked, swimming is not a contact sport. The bigger concern with the race sports is that it may not be possible to rebalance them because the intervals between winners is so slim, that a slight advantage (such as bigger lung capacity) is too much of an advantage to overcome. I suspect that long term it will be shown the race sports and jumping sports cannot be rebalanced once the trans individual has gone through puberty. Fortunately, those would be the easiest to come up with separate divisions for if they can't figure out (through technology or research) a rebalance.

 

[SurFutbol]

I have boys and girls.

What is abusive and physically dangerous about being on a boy's team? I'm seriously asking for the specifics. They do dumb things and say dumb things but I find the girls to be the same way. Kids and Teenagers.

This new generation is much better than our generation when we were kids in accepting people. They're still kids but for the most part, they've really surprised me in how they are much more accepting of differences.

I think we need to correct the abusive and physically dangerous nature of those teams because those behaviors shouldn't be accepted and ignored.

As further proof that your proposed solution to just make people stop being transphobic is not realistic, why is that you aren't telling the transphobic people here to knock it off?

 

[crush]

1. We've already established that trans MTF brains are already different than M brains and bear many if not most of the characteristics of a F brain. Mentally, they are more like women than they are men. They say one of the pillars of soccer in addition to the technical tactical and physical is mental....going to dad4's point about the trans MTF pre treatment being equal to a cis M....it may turn out to be that they aren't even just because of the mental (and its resulting physical side effects)....less aggressive.
2. A lot of the aggression is caused by the testosterone juice. If you block the testosterone juice, that's another one to go on.
3. Last I checked, swimming is not a contact sport. The bigger concern with the race sports is that it may not be possible to rebalance them because the intervals between winners is so slim, that a slight advantage (such as bigger lung capacity) is too much of an advantage to overcome. I suspect that long term it will be shown the race sports and jumping sports cannot be rebalanced once the trans individual has gone through puberty. Fortunately, those would be the easiest to come up with separate divisions for if they can't figure out (through technology or research) a rebalance.

Who is "we've" already established that MTF have different brains? 6'4 Lia's brain is more like a female and because it's not contact sport, it doesn't matter? She took first place away because she is taller, stronger and more physical + her brain is female brain. Ok Dr. Grace T. WHO are these Docs btw you love to sight in your studies? Link please. Also, where is Magoo? Did someone take over your account? You're now BFF with EOTL, which has me SMFT. Please don't share all my PMs like the other father did on here. Those were just meant for him and you. Thank you

 

[crush]

Twitter announces 'zero tolerance policy towards violent speech'

Twitter announced a new policy on violent speech Tuesday that prohibits threats, wishes of harm, incitement of violence and glorification of violence.

www.foxbusiness.com

@Dominic I think you should have some rules here for threats against fathers who speak out on child abuse and liars on here. I actually had EOTL threaten me and my dd on here plus two other fathers threaten me if I didn't STFU and stay silent, they would beat me up at the fields if I didn't turn around and go the other way. That is so wrong. All I did was expose evil liars and these papa bears got all defensive and angry towards me. I'm watching them and so are others from the high command.

 

[SurFutbol]

And hypocritical dickheads always show their true colors.

Well, you have certainly accomplished that. Homophobe. Transphobe.

 

[SurFutbol]

Twitter announces 'zero tolerance policy towards violent speech'

Twitter announced a new policy on violent speech Tuesday that prohibits threats, wishes of harm, incitement of violence and glorification of violence.

www.foxbusiness.com

@Dominic I think you should have some rules here for threats against fathers who speak out on child abuse and liars on here. I actually had EOTL threaten me and my dd on here plus two other fathers threaten me if I didn't STFU and stay silent, they would beat me up at the fields if I didn't turn around and go the other way. That is so wrong. All I did was expose evil liars and these papa bears got all defensive and angry towards me. I'm watching them and so are others from the high command.

Show us a single threatening post from anyone in this thread. The reality is that you just don't want to hear what you don't want to hear. You would prefer to denigrate trans people over and over again and post your awful derogatory memes without having to face any blowback for it.