Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[Chelsea dad g09]

Actually, CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, and the USWNT have all taken the position that human dignity is more important than whether your little girl wins a kiddie trophy.

Regardless, it isn't your place to tell trans children that human dignity isn't important. It isn't your place to tell ECNL who it can and cannot allow to participate in its own league. But if your daughter's passion is soccer, good for her, but if she isn't good enough to compete against a team with a trans kid, I'd recommend upping her weekly participation to 30+ hours a week or ease her into the fact that her career is winding down.

All 4 of those groups are massive hypocrites like yourself. You claim to be about human dignity and rights but seem to ignore the Nike, one of the biggest abusers of child labor in the world, plastered all over. Gtfoh numbnuts.

 

[crush]

All 4 of those groups are massive hypocrites like yourself. You claim to be about human dignity and rights but seem to ignore the Nike, one of the biggest abusers of child labor in the world, plastered all over. Gtfoh numbnuts.

Just do it and STFU!!!

 

[sockma]

Yes you do want a utopia. And you do want to sacrifice the trans or adhd kids first because you want them as a vanguard when society has not changed. I’m not the one thats said something is wrong with them. The medical profession which calls it gender dysphoria and society (your fellow cons here want them banned from the bathrooms and changing rooms do) are the ones that have. Again fix that first and then we’ll talk. otherwise it is their choice how to deal with it and what makes them comfortable…not yours to presume the best way they should handle it. How dare you presume that my choice of medicines for an adhd kid is any less right than another parents choice that chooses not to medicate? What makes you so sure you are right that you DARE lecture another parent on their choices? Who made you the infallible god that gets to chose who dies in the vanguard when you are so afraid to put that choice on your own children to have them stand up to defend someone who could very well be killed??? How dare you tell other people how they should want to live????? That’s not sheepdog behavior. That’s an authoritarian wolf.

the communists did the very same thing. Communism fails because people are selfish. No one wants to work longer hours in a more dangerous job than others if they aren’t being compensated. No one wants to give up their big house they worked for so some other poor shlub doesn’t go homeless. Everyone wants to be the one calling the shots from the dacha. No one wants to be the guy sweeping the streets. The communists felt they could rework society by rebuilding people through education, propaganda and outright coercion. They thought they could build the new Soviet man. They thought the new Soviet man would overcome the human desire to be selfish. It failed hopelessly. And along with it the utopian ideals of communism have led to more suffering than any other ideology of the 20th century including more lives lost than the outright evil racist philosophy of nazism.

the world needs dreamers like you. They keep us honest and give us something to aspire to. But life is messy and for a problem like this there are no good solutions. Only complexity.The dreamers however need to keep their dreams in check because the road to hell is indeed paved with utopian good intentions

Well, it started as a discussion and has turned into this. I really appreciate that your heart is in the right place too. Both our hearts are in the same place. I disagree with your solutions because they're just short term gains that create more long term pains. I want this problem solved and it's not going to be solved by pushing trans boys into a different group. (a group, that historically has been asked to just take it and accept it because that's how good girls should be)

I think you have some great ideas at times, but when the discussion doesn't veer to your liking, you start making up arguments for other people. Since you're down that path right now, I'll let you continue to create your own arguments and discuss their validity.

Dad4 and I might have been married 2000-3000 years ago. We'll never know till we die. Today might even be our 3000 year anniversary. Happy 3000 year Anniversary Dad4! Dont' tell my husband though, he gets jealous about all my past relationships.

 

[SurFutbol]

Sit down dumbass and try not to choke on that whole dick in your throat. And before you throw a temper tantrum and try to get all fake woke, it's not an insult towards anyone but you specifically.

Homophobe. Get it into your little, uneducated phobic brain of yours that your belief that a male having a dick in their mouth is an insult is homophobic, even if you claim that you are directing it only towards me. You may as well just call me the n word and claim that you're not racist because you only meant it towards me. Regardless, people like you make the best possible case to support trans participation in youth sports, so keep up the transphobic work.

Why is it that you have such a hard time with someone who supports trans children and who isn't afraid to give blatant transphobes a taste of their own medicine? Why do you even care so much anyway? It's not like your daughter will ever be good enough to play elite level soccer anyway.

 

[crush]

Well, it started as a discussion and has turned into this. I really appreciate that your heart is in the right place too. Both our hearts are in the same place. I disagree with your solutions because they're just short term gains that create more long term pains. I want this problem solved and it's not going to be solved by pushing trans boys into a different group. (a group, that historically has been asked to just take it and accept it because that's how good girls should be)

I think you have some great ideas at times, but when the discussion doesn't veer to your liking, you start making up arguments for other people. Since you're down that path right now, I'll let you continue to create your own arguments and discuss their validity.

Dad4 and I might have been married 2000-3000 years ago. We'll never know till we die. Today might even be our 3000 year anniversary. Happy 3000 year Anniversary Dad4! Dont' tell my husband though, he gets jealous about all my past relationships.

Past lives pavilion is going to be epic. Happy Anniversary to you and Dad as well.

 

[Chelsea dad g09]

Homophobe. Get it into your little, uneducated phobic brain of yours that your belief that a male having a dick in their mouth is an insult is homophobic, even if you claim that you are directing it only towards me. You may as well just call me the n word and claim that you're not racist because you only meant it towards me. Regardless, people like you make the best possible case to support trans participation in youth sports, so keep up the transphobic work.

Why is it that you have such a hard time with someone who supports trans children and who isn't afraid to give blatant transphobes a taste of their own medicine? Why do you even care so much anyway? It's not like your daughter will ever be good enough to play elite level soccer anyway.

Keep reaching bro, you might make sense with your fake outrage one day.

 

[sockma]

You claim that you don't believe in utopia, but a couple paragraphs later you rationalize barring trans girls playing with other girls by proclaiming that it would be better if we just had a utopia where we taught boys to accept trans kids and not ostracize them? Seriously?

Maybe professional sports should have continued to bar black people from the league until it first taught everyone to not be racist?

The solution I suggested is not to change who trans kids are, but to change the way teams or boys treat them, as in "brown v board of education" we forced everyone to learn to treat all students equally, regardless of their skin color. We didn't tell the kids with darker skins to change their skin colors and try to be white kids. We didn't tell non caucasion kids, "take pills and have surgery to try to fit in with this new group and make yourself look exactly like that new group"

What I'm saying is equivalent to what the league did, which is - "hey, we don't care what your fears or prejudices are, you need to get over them and treat the trans boy (Black man) equally to any boy". They're here to stay regardless of how different they look than you, because they're boys too.

What you are asking to do is put them in a different league completely, because you don't think boys with makeup and bows can compete with boys who wear baseball caps and basketball shorts.

 

[SurFutbol]

All 4 of those groups are massive hypocrites like yourself. You claim to be about human dignity and rights but seem to ignore the Nike, one of the biggest abusers of child labor in the world, plastered all over. Gtfoh numbnuts.

Like I said earlier, you really have a hard time coordinating idea and thoughts in your head.

So how many pairs of Nike's have you bought in your life without caring one bit where they came from up - until you started using it as an irrational excuse why trans children should not be allowed to play with other girls? And what efforts have you taken to date to determine whether any manufacturer of shoes that you have ever bought uses child labor?

 

[Grace T.]

Well, it started as a discussion and has turned into this. I really appreciate that your heart is in the right place too. Both our hearts are in the same place. I disagree with your solutions because they're just short term gains that create more long term pains. I want this problem solved and it's not going to be solved by pushing trans boys into a different group. (a group, that historically has been asked to just take it and accept it because that's how good girls should be)

I think you have some great ideas at times, but when the discussion doesn't veer to your liking, you start making up arguments for other people. Since you're down that path right now, I'll let you continue to create your own arguments and discuss their validity.

Dad4 and I might have been married 2000-3000 years ago. We'll never know till we die. Today might even be our 3000 year anniversary. Happy 3000 year Anniversary Dad4! Dont' tell my husband though, he gets jealous about all my past relationships.

I'm not making up arguments for other people. I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument, the chief three being: 1) it naively searches for simplicity in a complex world and for simple solutions where there is only complexity, 2) it is based on utopianism, that, as you say, you "want this problem solved"....sometimes there are no good solutions and that's just a sad reality of life, and 3) it's based on a bit of hypocrisy....you are asking trans (and adhd kids) to be vanguard and fight to change the world themselves, when you yourself have drawn lines over what it is you are willing to have your kids stand up and do (such as standing up to prevent such an lgbtq kid from getting a beat down).

As for women being asked to historically take it, that's why I think we have to draw lines for where it matters. It matters if we are testing for cheats and trying to establish a level playing field. If it doesn't matter, then you've articulated no rationale for why trans people should be excluded (take also the case in reverse, the FTM like the kid on my son's middle school team, that wants to play with the boys...you going to force him to play with the girls too...in that case it's the boys who are "taking it"). Again, it's hard to see any rationale for your line of thinking other than you want they to lay down to change the world in accordance to your vision. If you have a rationale, you have yet to articulate it.

Where it matters, steps have to be taken to balance, and if they cannot be balanced other accommodations need to be arrived at. It's hard to see on this level whether you would go so far as banning gender treatments....because the problem is if you don't, you'll still have people unable to compete with the cis men, so what do you do with them now????? We aren't talking now youths who are not under treatment. We are talking to people who have, despite your wanting them not to. What do you do with them and why????

Like I said, we need the dreamers. They keep us honest. Y'all have a tendency though to not think through all the various permutations and unintended consequences.

 

[SurFutbol]

The solution I suggested is not to change who trans kids are, but to change the way teams or boys treat them, as in "brown v board of education" we forced everyone to learn to treat all students equally, regardless of their skin color. We didn't tell the kids with darker skins to change their skin colors and try to be white kids. We didn't tell non caucasion kids, "take pills and have surgery to try to fit in with this new group and make yourself look exactly like that new group"

What I'm saying is equivalent to what the league did, which is - "hey, we don't care what your fears or prejudices are, you need to get over them and treat the trans boy (Black man) equally to any boy". They're here to stay regardless of how different they look than you, because they're boys too.

What you are asking to do is put them in a different league completely, because you don't think boys with makeup and bows can compete with boys who wear baseball caps and basketball shorts.

Yes, Brown v. Board of Education was just so great. The day it came out, everyone just decided to stop being racist and everything was just perfect in America - or so the new FL public school history fantasy textbooks would have you believe. It wasn't like it took 30 years' worth of injunctions to effectuate it in many areas, with the end result often being for white folks to gut entire public school systems by fleeing to where white people in private schools could "limit the damage" by only having to be around those very few black students with rich parents.

The fact that you refer to a trans girl as "boys with makeup and bows" is pretty definitive proof that you should STFU about what is best for them. So too is your irrational fear that people who support trans children are pushing them to take pills and have surgery.

 

[dad4]

Actually, CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, and the USWNT have all taken the position that human dignity is more important than whether your little girl wins a kiddie trophy.

Regardless, it isn't your place to tell trans children that human dignity isn't important. It isn't your place to tell ECNL who it can and cannot allow to participate in its own league. But if your daughter's passion is soccer, good for her, but if she isn't good enough to compete against a team with a trans kid, I'd recommend upping her weekly participation to 30+ hours a week or ease her into the fact that her career is winding down.

USWNT?

If you think the USSF is going to risk their WNT cash cow by adding some Lia Thomas to the roster, you’re on crack. USWNT is perfectly happy to wear some armbands and offer up the youth leagues to the activists. But there is no way in hell they’d allow the coach to drop an aging veteran like Morgan or Sauerbrunn to add some 19 year old XY athlete.

 

[sockma]

Yes, Brown v. Board of Education was just so great. The day it came out, everyone just decided to stop being racist and everything was just perfect in America - or so the new FL public school history fantasy textbooks would have you believe. It wasn't like it took 30 years' worth of injunctions to effectuate it in many areas, with the end result often being for white folks to gut entire public school systems by fleeing to where white people in private schools could "limit the damage" by only having to be around those very few black students with rich parents.

The fact that you refer to a trans girl as "boys with makeup and bows" is pretty definitive proof that you should STFU about what is best for them. So too is your irrational fear that people who support trans children are pushing them to take pills and have surgery.

My generalization was only to make a point, as I also used caps and basketball shorts for non trans kids. If my generalization was offensive to you, I'll definitely stop using it. The improper generalization doesn't take away from it's purpose, which is: "Boys are boys, regardless of how they dress or behave and we need to accept and treat all of them with respect and kindness. "

Actually, I don't think that all people who support trans children are pushing for pills and surgery, just Grace because that's what she said and I was having my discussion with her.

I support trans kids and I don't think they need to change a DAMN thing. You seem to enjoy capitalizing four letter words so I thought you'd appreciate it.

You're right, brown v board of education didn't change anything over night. Nothing changes overnight unless you're watching tik tok. Not perfect but still improving.

If you're hoping that things change overnight for trans kids by forcing the boys into a girls athletic league, you're greatly mistaken as you've noticed how much push back is happening.

I see a different solution in which long term affects are better for trans kids.

 

[Grace T.]

The solution I suggested is not to change who trans kids are, but to change the way teams or boys treat them, as in "brown v board of education" we forced everyone to learn to treat all students equally, regardless of their skin color. We didn't tell the kids with darker skins to change their skin colors and try to be white kids. We didn't tell non caucasion kids, "take pills and have surgery to try to fit in with this new group and make yourself look exactly like that new group"

What I'm saying is equivalent to what the league did, which is - "hey, we don't care what your fears or prejudices are, you need to get over them and treat the trans boy (Black man) equally to any boy". They're here to stay regardless of how different they look than you, because they're boys too.

What you are asking to do is put them in a different league completely, because you don't think boys with makeup and bows can compete with boys who wear baseball caps and basketball shorts.

1. You've neglected the fact there are people moving the other way. There are FTM like the boy on my son's middle school team. You force them to continue to play with the girls?

2. If you are going to draw equivalences with the civil rights movement (a fight which is still ongoing), I point out we did not force kids to volunteer to take the long walk to integrate schools. Some volunteered, some did not. I further point out that what you've basically said is they should all be forced to sit at the lunch counter to break down the segregation, but when it comes to them being physically ejected, you are going to tell your kids they should live another day and discretion is the better part of valor.

3. Are you proposing to ban anyone (even over 18) from getting gender treatment? Because if not, you are still running into the issue that once on treatment, those ftms cannot compete with a cis male fully on testosterone, which is a performance enhancing drug. What do you do with them then?

 

[SurFutbol]

The solution I suggested is not to change who trans kids are, but to change the way teams or boys treat them, as in "brown v board of education" we forced everyone to learn to treat all students equally, regardless of their skin color. We didn't tell the kids with darker skins to change their skin colors and try to be white kids. We didn't tell non caucasion kids, "take pills and have surgery to try to fit in with this new group and make yourself look exactly like that new group"

What I'm saying is equivalent to what the league did, which is - "hey, we don't care what your fears or prejudices are, you need to get over them and treat the trans boy (Black man) equally to any boy". They're here to stay regardless of how different they look than you, because they're boys too.

What you are asking to do is put them in a different league completely, because you don't think boys with makeup and bows can compete with boys who wear baseball caps and basketball shorts.

Another flaw in your logic relating to Brown v. Board of Education is that it took a US Supreme Court decision - often followed by the freakin' National Guard - to move the ball forward on equality through affirmative action because asking people politely was not working. Yet here you are saying we should just ask oppressors to be nicer and, presto, the problem will go away. The reality, however, is that Brown v. Board of Education was the direct result of the fact that trying to do things your way doesn't work. And even when people are forced to stop being horribly phobic, it takes decades to meaningfully effectuate it.

 

[Chelsea dad g09]

Like I said earlier, you really have a hard time coordinating idea and thoughts in your head.

So how many pairs of Nike's have you bought in your life without caring one bit where they came from up - until you started using it as an irrational excuse why trans children should not be allowed to play with other girls? And what efforts have you taken to date to determine whether any manufacturer of shoes that you have ever bought uses child labor?

And like I said, you have zero idea other than your assumptions where I stand on this issue. I'm not the hypocritical one throwing a tantrum about trans kids feelings while ignoring everything else because it doesn't fit your narrative. You want to use those groups to justify your stance but got caught with a mouthful of nuts again.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Another flaw in your logic relating to Brown v. Board of Education is that it took a US Supreme Court decision - often followed by the freakin' National Guard - to move the ball forward on equality through affirmative action because asking people politely was not working. Yet here you are saying we should just ask oppressors to be nicer and, presto, the problem will go away. The reality, however, is that Brown v. Board of Education was the direct result of the fact that trying to do things your way doesn't work. And even when people are forced to stop being horribly phobic, it takes decades to meaningfully effectuate it.

You’re conflating the plight of people of color in this country to the plight of those with gender dysmorphia?

you really will shit on anyone and anything won’t you?

thanks for continuing to prove me right.

 

[Grace T.]

You’re conflating the plight of people of color in this country to the plight of those with gender dysmorphia?

you really will shit on anyone and anything won’t you?

thanks for continuing to prove me right.

In fairness, EOTL raised the analogy about African Americans not being accepted by football teams until acceptance elsewhere.

it was Sockma that chose to bring in Brown v. Board of Education (which incidentally had nothing to do with integrated football teams including those that played in the North, but schools in the segregated sought).

While EOTL may have brought discrimination of one group as an analogy for discrimination against another group, it was sockma that brought segregation into it. If we can't be honest about what our respective "teams" are doing, then all we are left with is partisanship.

 

[Kicker4Life]

In fairness, EOTL raised the analogy about African Americans not being accepted by football teams until acceptance elsewhere.

it was Sockma that chose to bring in Brown v. Board of Education (which incidentally had nothing to do with integrated football teams including those that played in the North, but schools in the segregated sought).

While EOTL may have brought discrimination of one group as an analogy for discrimination against another group, it was sockma that brought segregation into it. If we can't be honest about what our respective "teams" are doing, then all we are left with is partisanship.

All due respect…let the Troll defend itself.

 

[crush]

In fairness, EOTL raised the analogy about African Americans not being accepted by football teams until acceptance elsewhere.

it was Sockma that chose to bring in Brown v. Board of Education (which incidentally had nothing to do with integrated football teams including those that played in the North, but schools in the segregated sought).

While EOTL may have brought discrimination of one group as an analogy for discrimination against another group, it was sockma that brought segregation into it. If we can't be honest about what our respective "teams" are doing, then all we are left with is partisanship.

Let me educate you Grace. The people above us all, like way above us who have no real nation just a bloodline, making all the $$$ and the decisions for us in the Game of life have tricked us all. You see, when I was born, the Tel A Vison & MSM taught us that blacks and Hispanics were the problem. It was horrible how people of color were treated by those in power. Fast forward to today, now the assholes at the top what us to be racists toward Whites, Asians and females. This is easy to see if one steps back. Were not racists. Watch kids play, they love everyone. Were taught to discriminate and hate others and even hate who you are and how you're born. They want us divided. Did you get a copy of this Childs book on love?

Children's book series about 'inspiring women' to publish biography on transgender Rachel Levine
A children's book about Rachel Levine is described as the 'perfect choice for kids who love learning'

 

[SurFutbol]

And like I said, you have zero idea other than your assumptions where I stand on this issue. I'm not the hypocritical one throwing a tantrum about trans kids feelings while ignoring everything else because it doesn't fit your narrative. You want to use those groups to justify your stance but got caught with a mouthful of nuts again.

I'm not the one throwing tantrums here. Again, I fully agree with CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the USWNT, the bronze medalist (at least) in the infamous Lia Thomas race, and SCOTUS. I also support ECNL's free market economics right to support trans participation.

You're the one throwing a tantrum so severe that you're accusing me of having a dick in my mouth as if that's an insult, and then immediately backpedaling about how you don't mean to be homophobic about it. All I'm doing is having a ton of fun mocking the whiny Karens here who are terrified of trans children. So scared. Might want to keep your daughter out of the school restroom.