Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[Grace T.]

2 & 3 - It appears you're pretty much saying the same thing in both, which is: The mistakes of the past and jerks in society will ruin it for us because they will still continue to berate MTF. No doubt there will be people like this going forward, regardless of what "solutions" are put in place. There will always be people who behave this way. However, it doesn't mean the majority will behave this way. Look how far we've come with so many things such as gay rights. Listen to the people on this forum, most of us DO NO CARE IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO WEAR A BOW OR A CAP ON THEIR HEAD. We would also yell at our kids if they made fun of other kids for doing so. Yes, our generation defined gender roles too much but we've really come a long way as we see a lot of dads as the better home parent and lots of moms as the better career person. We've also see both genders share home responsibilities and financial responsibilities. We've come to realize previous gender roles are too narrow and are really just UNNECESSARY. We do not need definitions of how each gender should behave or accessorize themselves.

Continue to address and focus on the real issue - which is - let people be their individual selves. I absolutely believe and have seen that our society is capable of this.

1. It's not enough for you to yell at your kids if they made fun of other kids. If you want to change the world, it's incumbent on you to make them sheep dogs: to step up and prevent others from doing it, even at the cost of getting beat up themselves. We've all seen the spate of school beatings recently when no one steps up to do anything to protect the victim (whether for physical fear to themselves, apathy, or in some cases fear of being labelled racist). Want utopia? Encourage your kids to be sheep dogs not just stopping them from being sheep. They have to stand against the night against the wolves, even at the cost of their own safety.
2. I really appreciate your vision. It's a very thoughtful and compassionate way at looking at the world.
3. I think you overlook, though, that for the trans kid that is transitioning, they may face all this, but at least can be comfortable playing in the gender to which they prefer. "Well, everyone is going to make fun of me, but at least I can be who I am". At the youth level we don't care about the fair playing field. I'm not saying they should be forced to transition to play with the opposite gender....they should have a choice of what makes them the most comfortable, given there is, on the youth level, no counterbalancing factor you can articulate to prevent this. It may be your utopia, but it's not necessarily there's.
4. One thing I agree with Jordan Peterson is that gender is not a construct. I think you are just wrong about that. Men and women are fundamentally different. The brains of trans individuals also seem to support this: they are literally the different brain stuck in the wrong body. This is something akin to a disability, not a way of being. It should be treated as such.

 

[espola]

I am disabled. ADHD obsessive hyperfocused.

Hyperfocus is not a disability. It's a superpower.

 

[Grace T.]

Hyperfocus is not a disability. It's a superpower.

I appreciate the sentiment but it's not always the case. Particularly when the dog in order to get the bone has latched onto the firetruck speeding away from him at 60 miles an hour into a burning neighborhood. "I want the bone, what do you mean there's a fire???" One of my heroes, Michael Burry, in addition to autism, suffers from this.

 

[espola]

I appreciate the sentiment but it's not always the case. Particularly when the dog in order to get the bone has latched onto the firetruck speeding away from him at 60 miles an hour into a burning neighborhood. "I want the bone, what do you mean there's a fire???" One of my heroes, Michael Burry, in addition to autism, suffers from this.

I lost my hyperfocus ability at some point. I think beer might have been involved in the transition.

 

[SurFutbol]

Let me give you some dumb dumb food through story time. When I was a Sr in HS, my father was dying from the dreaded Parkinson's disease. He was given less than a year to survive. I watched the most loving man in the world suffer a horrible death. He taught me how to fight to live. I had many reasons to take the G.E.D. and get out early. The #1 reason was to help my father for his end of life care. The #2 reason was my Earth Science Teacher was crazy like you and was trying to make my life a living hell. She was an Anti Christ-Evolutionist Preacher and loved abortion. We had many debates in class. She actually loved rocks more than humans. After basketball season was over, I had no reason to stay at Troy HS so I took the GED. It was the best decision I made because I was able to love dad to the end. It's funny how people call you a troll. Your no troll. What is your name demon? I can help you EOTL exercise that demon that has obviously taken over your soul. We both know the truth about why you have attacked me and my dd for over 6 years. I forgive you just so you know.

Dad at the VA in Long Beach after finding peace with Christ. Look at that smile.

View attachment 15799

We should believe a HS dropout nutter's position on epidemiology because their dad died of Parkinson's?

 

[Woobie06]

We should believe a HS dropout nutter's position on epidemiology because their dad died of Parkinson's?

You are a different kind of person…special, remarkable, one of a kind.

 

[sockma]

1. It's not enough for you to yell at your kids if they made fun of other kids. If you want to change the world, it's incumbent on you to make them sheep dogs: to step up and prevent others from doing it, even at the cost of getting beat up themselves. We've all seen the spate of school beatings recently when no one steps up to do anything to protect the victim (whether for physical fear to themselves, apathy, or in some cases fear of being labelled racist). Want utopia? Encourage your kids to be sheep dogs not just stopping them from being sheep. They have to stand against the night against the wolves, even at the cost of their own safety.
2. I really appreciate your vision. It's a very thoughtful and compassionate way at looking at the world.
3. I think you overlook, though, that for the trans kid that is transitioning, they may face all this, but at least can be comfortable playing in the gender to which they prefer. "Well, everyone is going to make fun of me, but at least I can be who I am". At the youth level we don't care about the fair playing field. I'm not saying they should be forced to transition to play with the opposite gender....they should have a choice of what makes them the most comfortable, given there is, on the youth level, no counterbalancing factor you can articulate to prevent this. It may be your utopia, but it's not necessarily there's.
4. One thing I agree with Jordan Peterson is that gender is not a construct. I think you are just wrong about that. Men and women are fundamentally different. The brains of trans individuals also seem to support this: they are literally the different brain stuck in the wrong body. This is something akin to a disability, not a way of being. It should be treated as such.

1. I agree that we should all teach our kids to stand up for others, especially bullies. However, I do not expect my child or myself to be perfect and recognize it or step up every time. Sometimes you're oblivious to other people's problems because you have your own. Or there are times when someone perceives they are being bullied when they are the ones bullying others and people are just standing up for themselves. sometimes you step into the middle of a thing and need time to analyze what is really going on first. Sometimes you're unsure of who is right or wrong, because everyone is just screaming at each other.

In cases where my child's safety would also be at issue, I'd advise them to report it to the proper authority if there is time to do so. Can't really change the world for the better if you're dead.

2. Thanks but this really is our world. I'm just describing the changes throughout the past few centuries, and decades we've all lived through.

3. Are they really being who they want to be? Or are they trying to be someone else to fit in a new group because they don't think they "fit in" with their existing group? You are born a boy who likes to wear dresses and make up. You are still a boy, no matter who may feel uncomfortable with they way you are. You shouldn't change or redefine yourself for other people because they are uncomfortable with who you are. They need to learn to accept you for who you are. They are the ones that need to change.

4. I don't think being trans is a disability. I think it's just a way of being, no different than cis. I take offense when one calls it that because it makes trans kids/adults feel like something is wrong with them when in actuality, nothing is wrong with them. A lot of how our society teaches gender roles has caused us to think that trans is a disability, but it's only a social construct of gender roles.
There is no science that indicates trans needs a penis or a vagina or boobs or to have periods or to carry a child or have chest hair. The science only indicates they have certain behaviors that don't fit in our deep rooted societal norms for each gender. Our deep rooted societal norms regarding gender behaviors is the problem, which we've been working on for more than a century, and is getting better. Adopting a view point that one must have certain physical attributes and change yourself completely, supports the old gender behaviors that we have been trying to eliminate.

 

[Kicker4Life]

[

You are a different kind of person…special, remarkable, one of a kind.

you are far more polite than I was going to be.

 

[Grace T.]

1. I agree that we should all teach our kids to stand up for others, especially bullies. However, I do not expect my child or myself to be perfect and recognize it or step up every time. Sometimes you're oblivious to other people's problems because you have your own. Or there are times when someone perceives they are being bullied when they are the ones bullying others and people are just standing up for themselves. sometimes you step into the middle of a thing and need time to analyze what is really going on first. Sometimes you're unsure of who is right or wrong, because everyone is just screaming at each other.

In cases where my child's safety would also be at issue, I'd advise them to report it to the proper authority if there is time to do so. Can't really change the world for the better if you're dead.

2. Thanks but this really is our world. I'm just describing the changes throughout the past few centuries, and decades we've all lived through.

3. Are they really being who they want to be? Or are they trying to be someone else to fit in a new group because they don't think they "fit in" with their existing group? You are born a boy who likes to wear dresses and make up. You are still a boy, no matter who may feel uncomfortable with they way you are. You shouldn't change or redefine yourself for other people because they are uncomfortable with who you are. They need to learn to accept you for who you are. They are the ones that need to change.

4. I don't think being trans is a disability. I think it's just a way of being, no different than cis. I take offense when one calls it that because it makes trans kids/adults feel like something is wrong with them when in actuality, nothing is wrong with them. A lot of how our society teaches gender roles has caused us to think that trans is a disability, but it's only a social construct of gender roles.
There is no science that indicates trans needs a penis or a vagina or boobs or to have periods or to carry a child or have chest hair. The science only indicates they have certain behaviors that don't fit in our deep rooted societal norms for each gender. Our deep rooted societal norms regarding gender behaviors is the problem, which we've been working on for more than a century, and is getting better. Adopting a view point that one must have certain physical attributes and change yourself completely, supports the old gender behaviors that we have been trying to eliminate.

Addressing your 4 I think that’s just wrong but it’s interesting you are con yet for reasons essentially articulate by the hard left. I learned something today.

I disagree gender is just a construct. Boys and girls have different tendencies from an early age: boys have been shown to drift towards certain toys like trains at an early age, girls towards things like dolls even when parents try to raise them neutrally. Physiologically the brain structures are different. Temperamentally women tend to be more nurturing, men tend to be more aggressive and it’s a pattern we don’t just see in society but in other mammals.

bring trans, gender dysphoric, is a disability in the same way that adhd, dyslexia or autism is a disability. It’s ok to say it doesn’t handicap you. I like how espola calls it a superpower (my sons adhd gives him the ability to see a bunch of things other people miss). I agree the disabled should not be made to feel there is something wrong with them, but it does mean they are different rightly or wrongly from the expectations society places on them. They therefore are legally and morally entitled to accommodations and while said rights are not absolute, they are entitled to a balancing act

in any case at least with respect to youth sports, where we don’t care about a level playing field all that much or safetyism, it should be there choice where they want to play and how they want to be viewed. It’s all very well and good to say they should feel comfortable enough to be accepted on the men’s side, and to even encourage that, but we aren’t Tonga and they may not necessarily agree. So, when it doesn’t matter, it should be the choice of the trans person.

 

[dad4]

Addressing your 4 I think that’s just wrong but it’s interesting you are con yet for reasons essentially articulate by the hard left. I learned something today.

I disagree gender is just a construct. Boys and girls have different tendencies from an early age: boys have been shown to drift towards certain toys like trains at an early age, girls towards things like dolls even when parents try to raise them neutrally. Physiologically the brain structures are different. Temperamentally women tend to be more nurturing, men tend to be more aggressive and it’s a pattern we don’t just see in society but in other mammals.

bring trans, gender dysphoric, is a disability in the same way that adhd, dyslexia or autism is a disability. It’s ok to say it doesn’t handicap you. I like how espola calls it a superpower (my sons adhd gives him the ability to see a bunch of things other people miss). I agree the disabled should not be made to feel there is something wrong with them, but it does mean they are different rightly or wrongly from the expectations society places on them. They therefore are legally and morally entitled to accommodations and while said rights are not absolute, they are entitled to a balancing act

in any case at least with respect to youth sports, where we don’t care about a level playing field all that much or safetyism, it should be there choice where they want to play and how they want to be viewed. It’s all very well and good to say they should feel comfortable enough to be accepted on the men’s side, and to even encourage that, but we aren’t Tonga and they may not necessarily agree. So, when it doesn’t matter, it should be the choice of the trans person.

So far, only you and EOTL have put forward the "youth sports don't matter that much" argument.

Most other people are willing to respect the fact that the players do care about their sport quite a bit.

Are sports silly? Sure. And people who like them put in 20+ hours per week trying to get better. It isn't your place to tell them that you decided their passion is unimportant.

 

[Grace T.]

So far, only you and EOTL have put forward the "youth sports don't matter that much" argument.

Most other people are willing to respect the fact that the players do care about their sport quite a bit.

Are sports silly? Sure. And people who like them put in 20+ hours per week trying to get better. It isn't your place to tell them that you decided their passion is unimportant.

You’ve already articulated the economic value you place on a level playing field: $0. You are unwilling to inconvenience yourself or pay more to ensure a level playing field. It leaves the rationale that you are going after the trans kids because: a. You think they are “obvious” and therefore will be easily caught without testing (which is disgusting) and b. Somehow morally equivalently or worse as a wrong than outright cheating.

as for hard work, my kid is probably one of the hardest working players out there. If he were allowed to play down a year or if the age line hadn’t been moved he’d likely be an academy player. He plays kiddie ball.

 

[Grace T.]

So far, only you and EOTL have put forward the "youth sports don't matter that much" argument.

Most other people are willing to respect the fact that the players do care about their sport quite a bit.

Are sports silly? Sure. And people who like them put in 20+ hours per week trying to get better. It isn't your place to tell them that you decided their passion is unimportant.

Ps shall we review to date your record? In this thread:

1. you’ve tried to mansplain misogyny to a woman
2. You’ve tried to gaysplain gayness to a gay person
3. You’ve tried to disability shame a person with a disability and
4. You’ve tried to shame someone whose kid has probably one of the hardest work ethics among his age group and was out kicking balls in the storm yesterday

All from a cis straight white male who has not coped to a disability. way to go man! Winning!

It’s not that they are unimportant. It’s that the results are, and the fact that we don’t care about fairness all that much because we do not in fact enforce a level playing field.

 

[crush]

Addressing your 4 I think that’s just wrong but it’s interesting you are con yet for reasons essentially articulate by the hard left. I learned something today.

I disagree gender is just a construct. Boys and girls have different tendencies from an early age: boys have been shown to drift towards certain toys like trains at an early age, girls towards things like dolls even when parents try to raise them neutrally. Physiologically the brain structures are different. Temperamentally women tend to be more nurturing, men tend to be more aggressive and it’s a pattern we don’t just see in society but in other mammals.

bring trans, gender dysphoric, is a disability in the same way that adhd, dyslexia or autism is a disability. It’s ok to say it doesn’t handicap you. I like how espola calls it a superpower (my sons adhd gives him the ability to see a bunch of things other people miss). I agree the disabled should not be made to feel there is something wrong with them, but it does mean they are different rightly or wrongly from the expectations society places on them. They therefore are legally and morally entitled to accommodations and while said rights are not absolute, they are entitled to a balancing act

in any case at least with respect to youth sports, where we don’t care about a level playing field all that much or safetyism, it should be there choice where they want to play and how they want to be viewed. It’s all very well and good to say they should feel comfortable enough to be accepted on the men’s side, and to even encourage that, but we aren’t Tonga and they may not necessarily agree. So, when it doesn’t matter, it should be the choice of the trans person.

ADHD is NOT a disability. The Quacks that make money on pills are the ones WHO say were crazy. I was the Original ADHD. The teachers had never dealt with a boy like me. Super powers? No. Super brain and easy to read liars was and is my gift. ADHD is a gift and Docs, some parents (usually the mom) and teachers have drugged their kids with so much crap, they just play video games. My son wants chest hairs and he knows he will never get them because he takes after his Mayan Grand Father. Grandpa has zero chest hairs but has all his hair on his head. You can't have it all.

 

[Grace T.]

ADHD is NOT a disability. The Quacks that make money on pills are the ones WHO say were crazy. I was the Original ADHD. The teachers had never dealt with a boy like me. Super powers? No. Super brain and easy to read liars was and is my gift. ADHD is a gift and Docs, some parents (usually the mom) and teachers have drugged their kids with so much crap, they just play video games. My son wants chest hairs and he knows he will never get them because he takes after his Mayan Grand Father. Grandpa has zero chest hairs but has all his hair on his head. You can't have it all.

This gets into the entire should we call things like gender dysphoria, autism, adhd, dyslexia, or even depression “mental disorders” or disabilities since they are merely different ways of being. I’m agnostic, but I think it’s unquestionable regardless of how they are labeled disabilities as a human right are entitled to accommodations. That right is not absolute and requires a balance. It is ok to argue that a particular balance is not reasonable. Totally fine. It is not ok to argue that a balance should not have to be performed.

 

[crush]

This gets into the entire should we call things like gender dysphoria, autism, adhd, dyslexia, or even depression “mental disorders” or disabilities since they are merely different ways of being. I’m agnostic, but I think it’s unquestionable regardless of how they are labeled disabilities as a human right are entitled to accommodations. That right is not absolute and requires a balance. It is ok to argue that a particular balance is not reasonable. Totally fine. It is not ok to argue that a balance should not have to be performed.

I cried a lot as a boy and the mean men and the mean boys called me a little sissy and a little girl many times. I was also attacked for being too sensitive and too emotional. Look Grace, too many want what they feel today. Order on demand. "I don't like my nose, so I want a new one." "I don;t want to be white so make me Korean." "My penis is small, I want bigger." Or, I hate my penis and I want to chop it off." Or "my breast are too small, I want big ones." We have Quacks today WHO will do just about anything to accommodate the demand to make a buck. "I hate being a man, I want to be female." or, "I hate losing as a man, so now I will win as woman." Snap your fingers and your wish will come true. Look at all these mental disorders today. WHO makes up this BS? That's right, the Doc. I say live with what the Universe (in my belief, how God made you) and be the best you can be with what you got. I am woman on the inside and man on the outside. It's a balancing act really. I actually like having both a feminine side and a masculine side.

 

[Grace T.]

I cried a lot as a boy and the mean men and the mean boys called me a little sissy and a little girl many times. I was also attacked for being too sensitive and too emotional. Look Grace, too many want what they feel today. Order on demand. "I don't like my nose, so I want a new one." "I don;t want to be white so make me Korean." "My penis is small, I want bigger." Or, I hate my penis and I want to chop it off." Or "my breast are too small, I want big ones." We have Quacks today WHO will do just about anything to accommodate the demand to make a buck. "I hate being a man, I want to be female." or, "I hate losing as a man, so now I will win as woman." Snap your fingers and your wish will come true. Look at all these mental disorders today. WHO makes up this BS? That's right, the Doc. I say live with what the Universe (in my belief, how God made you) and be the best you can be with what you got. I am woman on the inside and man on the outside. It's a balancing act really. I actually like having both a feminine side and a masculine side.

K. Presumably you oppose circumcising, however, even among the Jewish? In vitro fertilization? Liposuction? Hair transplant surgery? Dental implants? Hair lip reconstructive surgery (ala “cobra Kai”)? Lasik eye surgery? Retinal reconstructive surgery for the visually impaired?

 

[crush]

K. Presumably you oppose circumcising, however, even among the Jewish? In vitro fertilization? Liposuction? Hair transplant surgery? Dental implants? Hair lip reconstructive surgery (ala “cobra Kai”)? Lasik eye surgery? Retinal reconstructive surgery for the visually impaired?

Funny you brought up circumcision. This might be taboo for some but I love to talk taboo. After much study, I wish I was never circumcised. The fact is, being circumcised takes away the friction from the shaft to the Clitoris, so both the male & female can't really enjoy true bliss, the way the Universe (God) intended for two to be truly One. How horrible to the man and the woman. Asshats ruined enjoyment for all! It's why most woman (75%) can't have the cosmic organism with the Rod. They really did a number on all of us. In many parts of the world the woman's hair is covered and the Clitoris (with over 8000 nerve endings of bliss) is chopped off so woman can't have the cosmic org and feel like a real woman should feel. So freaking evil and wrong on so many fronts. Religion has done a number on all of us. I wish my mom let me be. I can only wonder what life was meant to be for us before the Religious Zealots & Quacks took over.

 

[Grace T.]

Funny you brought up circumcision. This might be taboo for some but I love to talk taboo. After much study, I wish I was never circumcised. The fact is, being circumcised takes away the friction from the shaft to the Clitoris, so both the male & female can't really enjoy true bliss, the way the Universe (God) intended for two to be truly One. How horrible to the man and the woman. Asshats ruined enjoyment for all! It's why most woman (75%) can't have the cosmic organism with the Rod. They really did a number on all of us. In many parts of the world the woman's hair is covered and the Clitoris (with over 8000 nerve endings of bliss) is chopped off so woman can't have the cosmic org and feel like a real woman should feel. So freaking evil and wrong on so many fronts. Religion has done a number on all of us. I wish my mom let me be. I can only wonder what life was meant to be for us before the Religious Zealots & Quacks took over.

So your line is anything that affects the genitals? Interesting. Says a lot about you. Ha! Just teasing.

 

[crush]

So your line is anything that affects the genitals? Interesting. Says a lot about you. Ha! Just teasing.

No, my line is let it be. Whatever the Universe gives you, be happy with whatever you got and however your born. If your born a male or female, be the best you can be with whatever talents and or weaknesses come. Destroying, chopping off and mutilating the body that you were born with is my issue.

 

[Grace T.]

No, my line is let it be. Whatever the Universe gives you, be happy with whatever you got and however your born. If your born a male or female, be the best you can be with whatever talents and or weaknesses come. Destroying, chopping off and mutilating the body that you were born with is my issue.

So again you took the easiest example I gave you. What about the hardest? Say you are born with a detached retina. Surgery can give you you eyesight. Should you spend your lifetime blind even though it can be fixed? “Be happy with whatever you got however your born”

what about chemical? I have allergies. Should I not take pills and shots to control them because that’s what God gave me, and I should just suffer through them?

what about devices? Hearing aids, artificial limbs and glasses?

where’s the line?