Nice example. I was born deaf Grace. My adopted mom had no idea because I read her lips. When I was around 3, my speech was a big issue. I stuttered with my words so mom took me to the Doc. The Doc said I had blockage in my ears and it was bad and I had zero hearing. I had two big surgeries to get all that wax out and I could hear finally. Mama said I was so happy to finally hear, she cried. I had to learn how to talk at 3, not easy. Then the bullies and mean teachers went after me and called me dumb dumb and put me with the other dumb dumbs from class. I shared this already. I like how you debate.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
Human beings are each unique individuals and as each human ages, they become more unique with life experiences. Not all differences in people should be considered disabilities. Disabilities prevent people from being able to perform specific physical activities in an average range.
It's a disservice to call trans people disabled basically saying gay and lesbians are disabled to, which they are not. They are just another variation of a human being. They are different like gingers, but they are not disabled. Human Gingers are not common but they are not disabled.
When you label a trans person as disabled person, then you are telling trans people that something is wrong with them and they should look to medical advancement for correction. This labeling, while beneficial to them in the short term because they may get benefits, is bad for them in the long term because as a society, we are branding them as needing to be fixed or should be fixed. They do not need to be fixed. People's perception of boys should be fixed.
The same argument is advanced with adhd. It’s not a disability but a way of being. When humans stalked the mammoths, you need people focused on the kill and people ready to yell “watch out for the saber to tiger”. It’s a nice sentiment. I’m sympathetic. But the bottom line is as with gender dysphoria, that is not the expectation set by society. It is acceptable to argue that schools and work should be reorganized so being adhd no longer affects folks adversely. It is not ok to argue that so long as said society is not reorganized that they should be sent to drown. it is not up the adhd or the trans person to drown as the martyr to the utopia you want to build, which I note it’s ironic because when discussing sheep dogs and the sacrifices kids need to make to build that utopia, you specifically drew a line against sacrifice there.
so what result? As for youth soccer we do not care about the level playing field and we do not care about safetyism. Ok let’s assume arguendo you are right and gender is a spectrum. Why are you prepared to force your view on the trans kid, who like me thinks your view is wrong, and force them to be the sacrificial lamb by playing with the boys, all in the name of this utopia you are trying to build, which you aren’t even prepared to have your own kids stand up for and sacrifice themselves? Isn’t that a little bit arrogant, nay even authoritarian, forcing them to agree with your view, when quite clearly there are many that don’t? I agree they should not be forced.If they are most comfortable playing with the men then by all means. But they are not your sacrificial lambs ready to be sacrificed in the name of utopia when you are unwilling to direct your children to be soldiers in the name of said utopia and to lay their own lives down. Now that’s unfairness.
Chelsea dad g09
SILVER
Sit down dumbass and try not to choke on that whole dick in your throat. And before you throw a temper tantrum and try to get all fake woke, it's not an insult towards anyone but you specifically.
Back to the the OP and topic. D Wade had a son named Zion who was assigned as a male when he was born. It was not his fault and when he was 3, he knew he was a truly a female. I do not question that at all and I can relate in one sense. Zion is now Zaya officially & legally and good for her. It was a hard fought battle with her biological mother. The mom is not happy and is accused as being a crazy Christian mother. Lets not go there. Should Zaya be able to play high lever basketball against the top top females in the game? I have no idea how good she but let's say she can ball like her other bro Zaire. Thoughts?
I drew a line at getting yourself killed, which is not what is being asked of any trans kids so I don't think anything you said above makes sense.
Live another day to fight is the motto unless a life is being threatened, then do what you need to do.
As for the whole thing about utopia, I don't believe in it. Life should be full of ups and downs with challenges, losses and wins. You made up this thing in your mind that I want a utopia and then you start pushing it as if it's mine. Utopia is not possible.
You're calling other people transphobes, but from the way you talk about them as being "disabled" and now saying they are equivalent to people with "adhd", it begs the question of whether people like you, with good intentions though, is the reason they're suffering so much. You equate them to being "wrong" somehow and I disagree. (going off topic though-too much adhd diagnoses and too much drugs are used to treat "illnesses", look where that's gotten us as a society) The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There's no sacrifice to playing with boys if the boys are accepting of trans. The problem with trans playing with boys right now is because they don't feel comfortable and not accepted by their peers. Isn't that the argument why you want trans to play with girls? They feel more accepted?
Forcing a huge population of girls to play with MTF trans isn't the answer. That's why there's such a huge backlash right now against trans, something trans kids wouldn't be going through if people like you didn't come up with this complicated nonsolution.
So if the issue for trans MTF is that they don't feel accepted in a boys team, our solution is to teach our boys, girls and parents, that they should accept trans kids and not ostracize them. In the long run, what do you think is better for trans kids? more drugs and being labeled as an "illness" or a "disability", or the acceptance of their peers and not requiring any changes or drugs?
That is one of the best takes on here since Dk. Excellent!
A life is being threatened in the school beating scenario outlined. Just not your kid. The sheep dog is required to lay his life down before the sheep. It’s the price of utopia.
im not the one trying to build utopia. You are. You’ve expressly wished for a world where gender and adhd don’t matter. I’m the one who pointed out society demands these expectations. Then you demand the adhd and trans person martyr themselves when you ascribe live another day for your own kids.
I agree the world would be better off if societal expectations were shattered. I point out attempts at building the new soviet man have been among the greatest catastrophes in human history however. And i definitely don’t think the trans or adhd kids should be the first to be forced to be sacrificed for the glorious new world order. Your biggest objection for the mtfs playing with the girls, as you’ve articulated no other,is they should play with the boys in order to sacrifice to change society. Sorry but that’s not your decision to make for them.
The trans as disability claim is neither credible nor desirable.
After all, if you say it is a disability, you open the door to treatments. Do you really want pharma to come up with a drug cocktail to "cure" this particular disability?
Better to follow sockma's advice and just respect each other as we are.
After all, if you say it is a disability, you open the door to treatments. Do you really want pharma to come up with a drug cocktail to "cure" this particular disability?
Better to follow sockma's advice and just respect each other as we are.
We have the physiological evidence that shows the brains are different than the baseline normal. Almost literally the brain of the opposite gender trapped in the opposite body. A disability to the exact same extent as adhd dylesxia or autism
it is a perfectly fine argument to say these should not be considered “abnormal” or just a different way of being. You can even argue we should call these things something other than a “disability”. It is not acceptable to say they should live in society without accommodation when society has not adjusted to consider these conditions “normals”. That’s just sacrificing them. It’s also not fair to dump them in the male category once they are on treatment and incapable of keeping up with cis males. If you want to make this argument, fix society first. They are not the lead vanguard on the beaches. They are not the spearhead of the glorious revolution. Make us Tonga for the trans kids, and adjust schools and work for the adhd kids, then we’ll talk. Otherwise who the f are you to demand sacrifices from them when you cannot even insist upon it from your own children???
it is an interesting hypothetical question of if someone invented a pill that would reverse the changes to their brains so they are just like ordinary cis men should Ftms take it. I would argue absolutely yes but it would be their choice. Why? Because the reason transitioning is offered as an option is the hope that it relieves distress (whether it does or doesn’t is a scientific question that can be answered with data). If such a pill could exist and it treats the mind but not body absolutely it should be made available but the choice should be by the trans individual. I’d even go so far as to call such a pill a miracle cure.
the ludicrous part is that you are latching on to sockmas argument. Sockmas Argument is based on the utopian fallacy: an idea that societal norms about people can be ignored to create preferred outcome. It’s the same reasoning behind the failure of communism. Your argument to date has been completely different. Yours is akin to the two year old child screaming “it’s unfair” but is incapable of seeing the fairness to other people. It’s why you argued it’s all about the hair bow not the training and that they aren’t soccer robots but then neglected to see the same argument for the trans individual. The sockma argument comes from a misguided idealistic but compassionate place while yours amounts to “whah!” Because you are either unwilling because of bias or incapable because of disability to see the opposite perspective (interesting to date too there’s been no denial on the point from you). Funny you have to latch into the argument to try to back yourself out of the corner you created for yourself. That’s just sad.
I don't want a utopia nor do I strive for it. That's why I would never want anyone to lay down their life because there's a school fight. People need to have time to think and figure things out, not just act like robots and jump in on command. Besides-is that really a utopia? Shouldn't we just have some collars on people and shock those behaving badly to stop them if we are trying to establish a utopia? Or as you say...I am? That's a crazy utopia to just throw your life away over a school fight - one in which you imagined up, not me.
You seem to think it's ok to label transgenders all sorts of names and now you're arguing that they would want to be medicated or changed if we invent a pill. Why do think something is wrong with them. Why do you think they should change themselves? The trans kids I know would never take the pill and are happy with themselves.
Societal norms are not being ignored. I said the we need to CHANGE THE SOCIETAL NORMS. Not ignore it. We've been changing societal norms for centuries, and it's produced some great things without medicating women or gays or forcing them to become male or straight, like you're trying to do to trans. Trans are trans. Learn to accept them for who they are and if you meet someone who is being a jerk towards a trans, tell them to think about why they are so offended by someone's dressing style or hair clips, why be offended by fashion statements? I will never agree with the solution is to drug them and force them into a different group. They're not girls bc they will never have monthly periods, fear of getting pregnant, menopause, all those fallopian tubes, etc... They're boys with a different mindset and that's ok, not an illness or a disability.
YOU are trying to create a UTOPIA with all your complex solutions that are causing a lot of unnecessary blow back for the trans community because you are trying to ignore social norms rather than CHANGE societal norms. It's hard to change societal norms and it's a long road, but the quick fix of a pill or surgery to hide who they are is NOT a solution.
I completely agree with you that Trans kids needs to be treated better, especially the boys. I disagree with your complex solution because you seem to try to ignore all the social norms rather than fix it.
Please don't project your thoughts and ideas as mine. I'll tell you what I think. You can tell me what you think.
Yes you do want a utopia. And you do want to sacrifice the trans or adhd kids first because you want them as a vanguard when society has not changed. I’m not the one thats said something is wrong with them. The medical profession which calls it gender dysphoria and society (your fellow cons here want them banned from the bathrooms and changing rooms do) are the ones that have. Again fix that first and then we’ll talk. otherwise it is their choice how to deal with it and what makes them comfortable…not yours to presume the best way they should handle it. How dare you presume that my choice of medicines for an adhd kid is any less right than another parents choice that chooses not to medicate? What makes you so sure you are right that you DARE lecture another parent on their choices? Who made you the infallible god that gets to chose who dies in the vanguard when you are so afraid to put that choice on your own children to have them stand up to defend someone who could very well be killed??? How dare you tell other people how they should want to live????? That’s not sheepdog behavior. That’s an authoritarian wolf.
the communists did the very same thing. Communism fails because people are selfish. No one wants to work longer hours in a more dangerous job than others if they aren’t being compensated. No one wants to give up their big house they worked for so some other poor shlub doesn’t go homeless. Everyone wants to be the one calling the shots from the dacha. No one wants to be the guy sweeping the streets. The communists felt they could rework society by rebuilding people through education, propaganda and outright coercion. They thought they could build the new Soviet man. They thought the new Soviet man would overcome the human desire to be selfish. It failed hopelessly. And along with it the utopian ideals of communism have led to more suffering than any other ideology of the 20th century including more lives lost than the outright evil racist philosophy of nazism.
the world needs dreamers like you. They keep us honest and give us something to aspire to. But life is messy and for a problem like this there are no good solutions. Only complexity.The dreamers however need to keep their dreams in check because the road to hell is indeed paved with utopian good intentions
Ps incredible too you sit her with this hard leftist ideology, defending someone like dad4 who has shown outright bias (are you two some relation???) yet you say nothing then when fellow cons like crush come out against shared bathroom. They you give the pass to. Incredible.
Read the parts in bold. You’re not acting like someone participating in a debate. You’re just being abusive.
No just calling it like I see. Such as the hypocrisy from you who used the word “crazy” now crying about meanness. As usual, more garbage. More hypocrisy from you. You shovel it out and lash out when corned then complain when it’s thrown back. Again I hope it’s because there’s another explanation other than you are a garbage human being.
Ps I absolutely love love love how your style of debating always seems to devolve to trying to get your opponents to unconditionally surrender. Let’s go through the hits shall we?:
such as why can’t you just shut up about the entire Covid thing, stop questioning and do what your told?
complaining about people being mean but you are allowed to hand out insults?
presuming that you can lecture a woman about misogyny, a gay person about gayness or a disabled person about what to call a disability when you cop to none of these?
hearing only what you want from an opponent and then building your argument off that then complaining when you are called out on it?
advocating authoritarian policies then complaining people are being mean when those policies are called out as authoritarian?
saying the experts cannot be questioned in one context then saying they must be questioned in this context?
crying about unfairness to some but unwilling to give consideration of fairness to others?
you know what? “Whah!”
Bye.
Actually, CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, and the USWNT have all taken the position that human dignity is more important than whether your little girl wins a kiddie trophy.
Regardless, it isn't your place to tell trans children that human dignity isn't important. It isn't your place to tell ECNL who it can and cannot allow to participate in its own league. But if your daughter's passion is soccer, good for her, but if she isn't good enough to compete against a team with a trans kid, I'd recommend upping her weekly participation to 30+ hours a week or ease her into the fact that her career is winding down.
You claim that you don't believe in utopia, but a couple paragraphs later you rationalize barring trans girls playing with other girls by proclaiming that it would be better if we just had a utopia where we taught boys to accept trans kids and not ostracize them? Seriously?
Maybe professional sports should have continued to bar black people from the league until it first taught everyone to not be racist?