What happened to da flu? If you look at the Dems today, they all get Covid and they all where black masks. Play book? The next three months will opne most of your eyes. Dad is all in as are Husker and Espola. No judgement anymore from me. They chose their path & chose my path. We shall see who was right and who was wrong. I am doing the best I have ever done. I got IT a few weeks ago and now I feel like I can take on any virus. I want to stay humble and knock on some wood but it's just hopw I feel Grace T. Yesterday I was body Surfing some nice big waves in front of a hotel and people thought I was a pro body surfer. I am 55 and felt like 33. Dolphins came to me and I saw Seals. It was Epic!
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
What we know has been known for quite a while. Plenty of hard and anectdotal data on ulittles. Proof is in the pudding so to speak if you look at the rate of ulittle vaccine adoption.
Right on cue with an argument I never made. Try and recall that my only comment was that this study is something to "consider".
Maybe between the vaccine and the infection, its "pick your poison", but we don't know for certain at this point. Make your choice, but don't force an ineffective medical treatment (in terms of transmission) on others, particularly when there are many things you can do to protect yourself. We can't design policies around those individuals with the lowest common denominator for risk acceptance. That cost/benefit equation never works out when you do that.
Odds are pretty good someone who is unvaccinated, but previously infected may have better immunity than someone who is only vaccinated. But again the jury is still out.
I'm curious as to what your definition of vaccinated is? Right now were up to 4 shots in less than one year because the vaccination efficacy wanes fairly quickly. The virus is endemic. How long should we continue to get boostered as to not to be selfish? What is it going to take for you to feel comfortable participating in life with an endemic virus that odds are is harmless to you?
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
We should have restriction for the unvaccinated? wut?
pure gold: "We start from policy preferences, and work backwards to choose (or invent) whatever facts are necessary to support that policy." - mandate a vaccine because they will provide immunity and prevent transmission? remember that one? That was policy with a capital P.
and yes...current mutation is less harmful than previous.
My jury already reached their verdict and Crush has a better immune system then those I know who got jabbed. I mean come on man, our President just got Covid when he 100% promised if you get the jab(s) you won't get the Rona. That is on video. The other liar Fauci said no need for mask and Brix lied as well but it's Trumps fault. My buddy just told me if Trump new all this, then why didn't he tell us. I told he told us everything and people chose to believe CNN and the lairs at Fox, "go get the jab, now!" 75% of the money they make come from big Pharma, right? Who do they listen to? I'm out talk later guys. I love you all and we will get through this dark time in the world. Peace!
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
So I looked at this. I'll tell you what I think and you are of course welcome to take it or leave it. So, the link is to one of these literature reviews that surveys a range of papers. It does not present any new primary data. Their discussion about DNA repair cites one paper that can be found here:
Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines - Cell Discovery
Large-scale COVID-19 vaccinations are currently underway in many countries in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions...
www.nature.com
This paper compares a number of cell parameters, particularly different signaling pathway associated with inflammation, between vaccination and infection. The phrases DNA damage or DNA repair do not appear in the paper, nor can I see that the authors are considering changes to genome integrity even in an oblique way. Rather they do monitor changes to a signaling pathway, NF-kB, that in some contexts, in some cells can, among things, can impact DNA repair mechanisms. But the primary paper does not show that or discuss it.
Why do you assume it is to protect me?
Your exact quote was,
"The mRNA vaccines potentially cause increased risk to infectious diseases and cancer."
Why link it to the vaccine but not the virus? You could equally as accurately have written,
"Coronavirus infections potentially cause increased risk to infectious diseases and cancer."
The second sentence is exactly as true as the first. It's the same protein, being produced in the same cells, according to the same RNA.
So why point out one fear mongering cancer risk, but not the other?
Bad logic like that might potentially cause irritable bowel syndrome. Potentially.
I don't pretend to understand this like you do. I'm taking a layman's look at this and try to see the forest for the trees. My primary premise is that there is not sufficient consensus, in fact there is some actual doubt, as to the transmission efficacy and safety of the vaccine for it to be mandated as a condition of employment or participation in public activities.So I looked at this. I'll tell you what I think and you are of course welcome to take it or leave it. So, the link is to one of these literature reviews that surveys a range of papers. It does not present any new primary data. Their discussion about DNA repair cites one paper that can be found here:
Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines - Cell Discovery
Large-scale COVID-19 vaccinations are currently underway in many countries in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions...
This paper compares a number of cell parameters, particularly different signaling pathway associated with inflammation, between vaccination and infection. The phrases DNA damage or DNA repair do not appear in the paper, nor can I see that the authors are considering changes to genome integrity even in an oblique way. Rather they do monitor changes to a signaling pathway, NF-kB, that in some contexts, in some cells can, among things, can impact DNA repair mechanisms. But the primary paper does not show that or discuss it.
Those weren't my words, those were the words of the study. Which I said was something to consider, not that it was gospel. You might want to put down the shovel, and buy a ladder to get out of the hole you've created.
Just to clarify, right now I think the scales tip to the vaccine probably being safer than getting Covid. However, we still have a lot to learn.
I'm vaccinated, but not boosted. My decision not to be boosted is not based on safety concerns. I'm not boosted primarily because I've had Covid, IMO I think immunity from infection is more durable than boosted immunity. I could be wrong. I don't think boosters are effective enough to prevent transmission so why subject myself to unnecessary medical treatment that is likely required every few months.
I'm vaccinated, but not boosted. My decision not to be boosted is not based on safety concerns. I'm not boosted primarily because I've had Covid, IMO I think immunity from infection is more durable than boosted immunity. I could be wrong. I don't think boosters are effective enough to prevent transmission so why subject myself to unnecessary medical treatment that is likely required every few months.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Yes, I know. Which is why I did consider it. Presumably that's why you linked it. The hostility doesn't really bother me; it's OK.
That wasn't directed at you, nor do I have any hostility towards you, we just have different perspectives based on our life experiences. I don't sense that your trying to tell other people what's best for them. No problem.
It's Dad4 continually annoying habit of putting words in my mouth that I take issue with.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
I have 3 shots but I identify as fully vaccinated. Don't tell me otherwise or I will cancel your ass.
U racist.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
really we don't don't know much about mrna vaccines. - they could cause ibs, cancer, likley causing stroke, cardiac issues, excess death in europe....never let an emergency go to waste though, especially when government $$s are involved.
it's a pretty good experiment , the whole world is the petri dish. It's never been approved outside of of experimental trials until 2020..curious right, when we have othe proven tech...novovax comes to mind. But hey, jab away. I heard someone the other day compare the vaccine to software, consistently updated. And yes, the flu vaccine is updated every year...but that is different. When was the last time you received your flu vaccine then wore a mask to protect you and others from the flu...silliness.
Actually, the flu is a pretty good example...we've never been able to stop a respiratory disease. Looks like a similar outcome for this one. Unfortunately this one has had more of an appetite for very specific demographics.
Japan has been doing masks + vaccine for flu for decades now.
You may not like it, but it's certainly not new.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
nice pivot - why would you think I don't like it? as if it's personal? When was the last time you wore a mask after you received a flu shot in the US?
Have you seen the Japanese numbers against the current variants?
Not really interested in looking at short term numbers from anywhere. It's like measuring sea level by looking only at the top of the tallest wave at high tide.
I would be curious whether mask-prone places like Japan have different results for flu season. That's more of a 10 year average thing than a latest numbers thing.
But, given Japan's density and age profile, that might be hard to do. Who else is old enough and dense enough to create a reasonable comparison?
Nah you’re the guy checking out the New Orleans sea wall and because New Orleans Was dry in the spring declared the sea wall works until Katrina comes along
you were the one obsessed with r0. Have you stopped to think that at certain point the virus is so contagious that nothing short of an n95 makes a difference (and then only for limited times exposure assuming a proper fit). That the difference in r reduced from 1 to .8 is tons more impactful than reducing from 8 to 7.8?
I’m willing to take from you even an acknowledgement that at this point cloth masking is useless (even if you believe it might have been super helpful initially) but I’m sure your religion won’t let you do that. Like Catholics arguing the Virgin Mary you can’t even abandon the concept of perpetual virginity without it all coming down around you.