Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[Grace T.]

Well, there you ago again. First off, who was Paul addressing and why?

Prevailing thought is they were not in fact written by Paul, but were written by his cadre to stamp out certain heresies creeping up in the early church.

Grace, men are men and women are women. It really IS that simple and always has been. There's a reason why no female is dominant in a male sport and males ARE dominant in female sports. It can't be any more simple than that. And WTF is "nonbinary"? Pull your pants down. That's what you are. I understand the "physical condition" that is 100% mental. I understand feeling trapped in a body that shouldn't be your own... but in no way does that give the green light for a male, wearing lipstick and a maxi pad under his balls, to play female sports and not say there's an unfair advantage. That, unlike your post, is succinct and logical.

you can’t even see how stupid this rhetorical statement is. If a post surgical mtf pulls their pants down they won’t see a snake. Under your logic post surgical mtf are ok to play in the f division. Quite a box you built yourself

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

 

[Grace T.]

Yeah, quite fine, thanks for asking... buddy. We all know why XYZ... entity supports it for now. But that political correctness garbage is dying because people are getting their voices back. Women are getting their voices back. And I've yet to see you defend your position that males don't have a physical advantage over females. Maybe evolution is too much for you to overcome? Hunters and gatherers.

You aren't diplomatic to anybody... and I never planned to be diplomatic with you. I asked a simple question you refuse to answer. It's okay because I knew you wouldn't. I have no problem with trans people and couldn't care less about what they want, or think they want, to be. Just don't expect everyone else to live in your fantasy world with you. Don't expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don't expect people to accept your unfair advantage in a sport that plays to physical advantage. Trans people aren't special. Unique, but not special.

“I have no problem with blind people. I couldn’t care less about what they want, or think they want, to do. Just don’t expect everyone else to ltheir lives around you. Dont expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don’t expect people to shell out our hard earned money for things like brail signs and cross walks that talk. Blind people aren’t special. Unique, but not special”

bias comes in all sorts of forms. Sometimes you can’t even see it’s there. The “I couldn’t care less about what they want” reminds me when they said and still say the same thing about gay people.

it’s fine to argue an accommodation is unreasonable. Then you have to justify why attempts to balance play such as hormones therapy or surgery are unreasonable. That’s a science data thing you haven’t put forward. It’s not ok to say the accommodation doesn’t need to be considered or that the person doesn’t have the right to such consideration. And if the accommodation is not reasonable you are obligated to advance another…it’s not sufficient to say too bad so sad oh well. Sorry life is complicated. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy.

 

[crush]

Prevailing thought is they were not in fact written by Paul, but were written by his cadre to stamp out certain heresies creeping up in the early church.

CH1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Yeshua our hope,

To Timothy my true son in the faith:

Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jeshua our Lord.

Timothy, my son, I (Not God) am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Ch 2
I (Paul, not God) also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman (a wife or wives) should learn in quietness and full submission. I (Paul, not God) do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Crush's commentary: I'm learning Greek btw. The English are brutal with their meanings of words and much can be lost in translation and can come across as harsh and folks like Surf Futbol blame God for Paul's instruction to his son in the faith. Paul (or his cadre) wrote to Timothy and not us, that's for sure. It's a rough writing and interesting that these letters were added to the 66. I wasn't living among those Gentiles back then but from what I have read, it was intense and wild. Also, most of the Gentile men back then had more than one wife when they converted to Christ and got baptized. Woman=wife. Man=husband. Lost in the translations. Legend has it that some woman were not converts yet, just the hubby but they wanted to speak. Some hubbies and their three wives all got baptized and all of the wives wanted to get their two cents in. It was confusion everywhere. I know many church that take these letters as directives for today and force it down the likes of little Espola's when he was 13 and that is not fun for teens. I say that with full empathy. Take a letter that Paul wrote 2000 years ago and force it on the woman of today is brutal at best.

 

[Slobodan]

That is a bit of an overstatement, since the case addressed only MN state laws. Ultimately, I don't think adult trans women should be allowed to compete in women's powerlifting, but the language of the MN laws are what they are. Maybe they need amending, just like the NCAA swim rules proved to need amending. Regardless, there was one critically important sentence in that decision that separates good people from transphobes, and it is this: "The USAPL's evidence of competitive advantage does not take into account any competitive disadvantage a transgender athlete might face from, for example, increased risk of depression and suicide, lack of access to coaching and practice facilities, or other performance suppression common to transgender persons."

Maybe the competitive disadvantages that a trans athlete faces don't outweigh the advantages in some sports. Furthermore, as competition becomes more important at adult and professional levels, probably the relative importance of some factors need to be weighed differently than as applied to children's sports. For example, the risk of depression and suicide in particular probably become less important as factors as children become adults. But the problem is that too many people are unwilling to even consider those disadvantages AT ALL. IF USAPL had just shown a little empathy and actually evaluated the factors that support trans participation instead of essentially telling trans women to f off, and perhaps made minor accommodations to its policies but had reached the same result about competitions, they probably wouldn't be where they are.

You know the fastest way to end transphobia? Stop seeking attention. Stop waving signs around. Stop having parades. And whatever you do, don't act like the rest of us have to pay for your surgeries. Your "life threatening condition" is no worse than anyone else's depression and you aren't entitled to nip and tuck on everyone our dime.

I told a gay, male friend the same thing. Stop being obnoxious and waving your sexuality in everyone's face. Nobody cares. Being militant apparently gets you the attention you seek because, otherwise, you'd just be gay and shut up about it like heterosexual people do.

 

[Slobodan]

“I have no problem with blind people. I couldn’t care less about what they want, or think they want, to do. Just don’t expect everyone else to ltheir lives around you. Dont expect everyone else to accommodate you. And don’t expect people to shell out our hard earned money for things like brail signs and cross walks that talk. Blind people aren’t special. Unique, but not special”

bias comes in all sorts of forms. Sometimes you can’t even see it’s there. The “I couldn’t care less about what they want” reminds me when they said and still say the same thing about gay people.

it’s fine to argue an accommodation is unreasonable. Then you have to justify why attempts to balance play such as hormones therapy or surgery are unreasonable. That’s a science data thing you haven’t put forward. It’s not ok to say the accommodation doesn’t need to be considered or that the person doesn’t have the right to such consideration. And if the accommodation is not reasonable you are obligated to advance another…it’s not sufficient to say too bad so sad oh well. Sorry life is complicated. It’s not black and white. It’s not easy.

You want an accommodation for transexual athletes? Great. Create transexual leagues. Problem solved. OR... those males in lipstick can compete with other males... since that's what they really are anyway. Or in SurFutbol's case, let's allow people that see to play in a blind person league. Should I just say I "identify" as blind?

 

[Slobodan]

Prevailing thought is they were not in fact written by Paul, but were written by his cadre to stamp out certain heresies creeping up in the early church.

you can’t even see how stupid this rhetorical statement is. If a post surgical mtf pulls their pants down they won’t see a snake. Under your logic post surgical mtf are ok to play in the f division. Quite a box you built yourself

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Did you say "post surgical"? What surgery and hormone therapy turns a 10-year old into a female? What surgery and hormone therapy turns Thomas Lia... gets his ass kicked during every meet, into Lia Thomas... dominates all females... into a female? I know you're smarter than that. Why are you acting otherwise? Chopping a d!ck off doesn't make you a female. It means you're a d!ckless male.

 

[Grace T.]

Did you say "post surgical"? What surgery and hormone therapy turns a 10-year old into a female? What surgery and hormone therapy turns Thomas Lia... gets his ass kicked during every meet, into Lia Thomas... dominates all females... into a female? I know you're smarter than that. Why are you acting otherwise? Chopping a d!ck off doesn't make you a female. It means you're a d!ckless male.

It was your stupid test. You are the one that says all that matters is if you see a snake or a vag. Don’t come crying to me you got caught out in your idiotic rhetoric of your own creation and now have egg on your face.

 

[Grace T.]

You want an accommodation for transexual athletes? Great. Create transexual leagues. Problem solved. OR... those males in lipstick can compete with other males... since that's what they really are anyway. Or in SurFutbol's case, let's allow people that see to play in a blind person league. Should I just say I "identify" as blind?

Cool. Since money doesn’t grow on trees we can pay for it by taking scholarships from the girls and boys

but what if there’s insufficient numbers to form a trans league especially when it comes to teams? Well then you have to come up with another solution. Since you are the one that says no entry into the f league have fun coming up with that one. I personally think it would be fun if the government scans every kids brain and forces those That are found to have trans tendencies into the trans league…don’t you?….fun knock at the door by government agents when they turn 13?

in all seriousness though, it is insufficient to say that in light of the fact post treatment a mtf cannot keep up with a cis male you dump them into the m league. Under any of the 3 legal theories: trans discrimination, disability accommodation, title ix protects women’s leagues…it is patently illegal (which is ultimately btw why the Minnesota court was forced to rule the way it did). If you don’t like it, it’s incumbent on the con position to come up with a workable alternative that does not discriminate. Otherwise…we’ll legally you’ll be stuck with more Minnesota decisions.

 

[Slobodan]

It was your stupid test. You are the one that says all that matters is if you see a snake or a vag. Don’t come crying to me you got caught out in your idiotic rhetoric of your own creation and now have egg on your face.

LMAO! My stupid test? No, that's not at all what I said. What I wrote was, everybody knows what they are when they're born... with minimal exceptions. They may not be comfortable with it after attending a few drag queen shows in Kindergarten, and when people like you insist they question their sexuality, but lopping your pecker off doesn't make you female. Neither does long hair, 12 ounces of coverup for that Adam's Apple or shaving 3 times a day to hide the whiskers. Males are males. Pretend to be whatever you want, but males have a musculoskeletal advantage over females and no amount of your red ass is going to change that, grandma.

Neither you nor your duct tape buddy have answered the question: Why don't female rights matter as much as a transexuals and how do you explain Thomas Lia becoming Lia Thomas and going from shit to Shinola in the pool?

 

[Grace T.]

You know the fastest way to end transphobia? Stop seeking attention. Stop waving signs around. Stop having parades. And whatever you do, don't act like the rest of us have to pay for your surgeries. Your "life threatening condition" is no worse than anyone else's depression and you aren't entitled to nip and tuck on everyone our dime.

I told a gay, male friend the same thing. Stop being obnoxious and waving your sexuality in everyone's face. Nobody cares. Being militant apparently gets you the attention you seek because, otherwise, you'd just be gay and shut up about it like heterosexual people do.

“You know the fastest way to end racism? Stop waiving signs around. Stop having marches. And whatever you do, don’t act like the rest of us have to actually associate with you. You get to eat at your lunch same as the rest of us. Doesn’t mean you actually get to sit with us. Stop being obnoxious and waiving your blackness in everyone’s face. Nobody cares. Being militant just gets you beat up by the cops. Take your segregation and shut up about it. You don’t hear us white people complaining”

dripping with not only trans but anti gay bias. Disgusting.

again perfectly acceptable to argue the accommodation being asked for is not reasonable. Perfectly ok to come to the conclusion mtf should not be allowed into whatever f league. But then you mustcome up with a workable alternative and this put down of them is just not ok. That’s the difference between a reasonable argument and bigotry. This is just plain old bigotry. Should I say it doesn’t surprise me from someone who’s moniker is slobodan or what that be bigotry on my part?

 

[Slobodan]

Cool. Since money doesn’t grow on trees we can pay for it by taking scholarships from the girls and boys

but what if there’s insufficient numbers to form a trans league especially when it comes to teams? Well then you have to come up with another solution. Since you are the one that says no entry into the f league have fun coming up with that one. I personally think it would be fun if the government scans every kids brain and forces those That are found to have trans tendencies into the trans league…don’t you?….fun knock at the door by government agents when they turn 13?

in all seriousness though, it is insufficient to say that in light of the fact post treatment a mtf cannot keep up with a cis male you dump them into the m league. Under any of the 3 legal theories: trans discrimination, disability accommodation, title ix protects women’s leagues…it is patently illegal (which is ultimately btw why the Minnesota court was forced to rule the way it did). If you don’t like it, it’s incumbent on the con position to come up with a workable alternative that does not discriminate. Otherwise…we’ll legally you’ll be stuck with more Minnesota decisions.

There's insufficient numbers to form a lot of things. If you have the body of a male, get a chin strap for your wig and play with the boys or just don't play. We didn't have lacrosse where I grew up so I didn't play lacrosse. Didn't play ice hockey, either. Wasn't an option. Life does that at times.

Trans tendencies? No, a certain political party is busy doing that grooming for you now. Rest assured. Women's leagues are NOT protected if you're going to let males compete in them because they feel like females. They aren't females and they'll never be females. That's just a fact and facts aren't feelings. It's despicable what happened to all the real females that lost to Thomas Lia because he woke up and said, "shit... if I can bullshit my way into the girl's pool... I could REALLY BE SOMEBODY!" Yeah, he's somebody, alright. A real jackass. A selfish jackass and I hope he pays for it the rest of his life. If you're a male that wants to be female, have at it. Do it 100%. Make yourself happy. Stay away from competing physically against girls because that's not why you changed your body. Supposedly...

 

[Grace T.]

LMAO! My stupid test? No, that's not at all what I said. What I wrote was, everybody knows what they are when they're born... with minimal exceptions. They may not be comfortable with it after attending a few drag queen shows in Kindergarten, and when people like you insist they question their sexuality, but lopping your pecker off doesn't make you female. Neither does long hair, 12 ounces of coverup for that Adam's Apple or shaving 3 times a day to hide the whiskers. Males are males. Pretend to be whatever you want, but males have a musculoskeletal advantage over females and no amount of your red ass is going to change that, grandma.

Neither you nor your duct tape buddy have answered the question: Why don't female rights matter as much as a transexuals and how do you explain Thomas Lia becoming Lia Thomas and going from shit to Shinola in the pool?

I did answer it. Not my fault you are too stupid to follow it

there are 3 possible legal theories. The extremist right position is that title ix protections are sacrosanct because women need protection. The side effect then is it’s a concession women aren’t entitled to 50% of resources because they are somehow lesser and a protected restricted category. The extremist left position is that trans protection is absolute and to separate a trans from their expressed gender is discrimination. I ascribe to the middle theory: it’s akin to a disability and therefore disability law prevails…both the mtf and the f have rights that need to be accommodated, an accommodation must be extended if it is found to be fair and reasonable, otherwise another solution must be put forward.

 

[Grace T.]

There's insufficient numbers to form a lot of things. If you have the body of a male, get a chin strap for your wig and play with the boys or just don't play. We didn't have lacrosse where I grew up so I didn't play lacrosse. Didn't play ice hockey, either. Wasn't an option. Life does that at times.

Trans tendencies? No, a certain political party is busy doing that grooming for you now. Rest assured. Women's leagues are NOT protected if you're going to let males compete in them because they feel like females. They aren't females and they'll never be females. That's just a fact and facts aren't feelings. It's despicable what happened to all the real females that lost to Thomas Lia because he woke up and said, "shit... if I can bullshit my way into the girl's pool... I could REALLY BE SOMEBODY!" Yeah, he's somebody, alright. A real jackass. A selfish jackass and I hope he pays for it the rest of his life. If you're a male that wants to be female, have at it. Do it 100%. Make yourself happy. Stay away from competing physically against girls because that's not why you changed your body. Supposedly...

The jackass calling out a jackass. That’s hilarious. Your mind is so simple it’s cute.

that’s not how disability law works. Same like an adhd person. Same like a deafor blind person. An accommodation must be extended if reasonable. It’s ok to argue that this proposed accommodation is unreasonable. If so present your data which must take into account transition protocols. It’s not ok to argue they are just men and if they can’t compete in the cis male league too bad so sad. Don’t like them competing in the cis f league: fine come up with another solution. It’s on you then.

 

[Slobodan]

“You know the fastest way to end racism? Stop waiving signs around. Stop having marches. And whatever you do, don’t act like the rest of us have to actually associate with you. You get to eat at your lunch same as the rest of us. Doesn’t mean you actually get to sit with us. Stop being obnoxious and waiving your blackness in everyone’s face. Nobody cares. Being militant just gets you beat up by the cops. Take your segregation and shut up about it. You don’t hear us white people complaining”

dripping with not only trans but anti gay bias. Disgusting.

again perfectly acceptable to argue the accommodation being asked for is not reasonable. Perfectly ok to come to the conclusion mtf should not be allowed into whatever f league. But then you mustcome up with a workable alternative and this put down of them is just not ok. That’s the difference between a reasonable argument and bigotry. This is just plain old bigotry. Should I say it doesn’t surprise me from someone who’s moniker is slobodan or what that be bigotry on my part?

Do you remember what Morgan Freeman said when Mike Wallace asked him how to stop racism? "Stop talking about it."

I love how you social justice warriors think you're standing on the moral high ground. At the end of the day, you're just a drama queen.

 

[Slobodan]

I did answer it. Not my fault you are too stupid to follow it

there are 3 possible legal theories. The extremist right position is that title ix protections are sacrosanct because women need protection. The side effect then is it’s a concession women aren’t entitled to 50% of resources because they are somehow lesser and a protected restricted category. The extremist left position is that trans protection is absolute and to separate a trans from their expressed gender is discrimination. I ascribe to the middle theory: it’s akin to a disability and therefore disability law prevails…both the mtf and the f have rights that need to be accommodated, an accommodation must be extended if it is found to be fair and reasonable, otherwise another solution must be put forward.

I didn't ask for your legal theories. I asked why YOU think it's okay to let males unfairly compete against females. Or do you simply deny that males have a decided physical advantage over females? Oh wait, you called it a "disability". And I'm not stupid, grandma. How red is that ass of yours getting now, high road?

 

[Grace T.]

The jackass calling out a jackass. That’s hilarious. Your mind is so simple it’s cute.

that’s not how disability law works. Same like an adhd person. Same like a deafor blind person. An accommodation must be extended if reasonable. It’s ok to argue that this proposed accommodation is unreasonable. If so present your data which must take into account transition protocols. It’s not ok to argue they are just men and if they can’t compete in the cis male league too bad so sad. Don’t like them competing in the cis f league: fine come up with another solution. It’s on you then.

Ps the extremists on the left that insist on the drag shows (drag isn’t even trans…it’s a burlesque that actually makes fun of actual trans people and women usually done by gay men) for kids and open inclusion no matter what are doing a lot of harm to the issue of trans inclusion. The ones that weird bigotry and mock trans people like you, Michael Knowles or Matt Walsh are doing a lot of damage to the con position too. Indeed today there were a handful of resignations from the daily wire over this issue. Neither one of the extremists is doing their side any good.

Do you remember what Morgan Freeman said when Mike Wallace asked him how to stop racism? "Stop talking about it."

I love how you social justice warriors think you're standing on the moral high ground. At the end of the day, you're just a drama queen.

I’m hardly an sjw. I’m a classical liberal/libertarian with strong anti post modernist tendencies. My position here is actually very centrist. Funny you see ghosts around every corner.

 

[Slobodan]

The jackass calling out a jackass. That’s hilarious. Your mind is so simple it’s cute.

that’s not how disability law works. Same like an adhd person. Same like a deafor blind person. An accommodation must be extended if reasonable. It’s ok to argue that this proposed accommodation is unreasonable. If so present your data which must take into account transition protocols. It’s not ok to argue they are just men and if they can’t compete in the cis male league too bad so sad. Don’t like them competing in the cis f league: fine come up with another solution. It’s on you then.

I gave you a solution. Create your own trans league or play in the league that represents your actual gender. If you were born a male, you're a male from now until the day you die. Play against males. If there's not enough trans for you, oh well. Go do something else. Lots of males and females don't get everything they want.

 

[Grace T.]

I didn't ask for your legal theories. I asked why YOU think it's okay to let males unfairly compete against females. Or do you simply deny that males have a decided physical advantage over females? Oh wait, you called it a "disability". And I'm not stupid, grandma. How red is that ass of yours getting now, high road?

69 pages in and still to thick to follow the complexities

at the youth level it doesn’t matter. We don’t test for steroids. If your position is it should be a biological test you have a problem with the ftm…the only logical position is to let them play in the f division because you aren’t testing anyone else’s dope usage so why pick on them. But ultimately it really doesn’t matter because we don’t test for cheats so why focus on the trans when actual cheaters get away Scott free

on the college level, when we do test, it’s different. You can only let them play if you can balance the playing field. While it is true that men generally are more athletic than women, it is also true ftm on treatment have their performance drop. The question is can you establish protocols so there isn’t a great undue advantage. For every lia there are 10 athletes you don’t hear about including several instances mentioned here

for the professional and national team levels even stricter protocols are called for and some sports like running and jumping events are probably impossible to balance due to the small margins in those victories, even for kids that transition in their teens but after the onset of puberty.

 

[Grace T.]

I gave you a solution. Create your own trans league or play in the league that represents your actual gender. If you were born a male, you're a male from now until the day you die. Play against males. If there's not enough trans for you, oh well. Go do something else. Lots of males and females don't get everything they want.

Again for the reasons outlined “too bad so sad” doesn’t work out legally any more than a deaf or adhd perso. It’s why we have disability accommodations. Too bad so sad you are blind or adhd doesn’t work legally or morally and your bigotry is showing.

 

[Slobodan]

Ps the extremists on the left that insist on the drag shows (drag isn’t even trans…it’s a burlesque that actually makes fun of actual trans people and women usually done by gay men) for kids and open inclusion no matter what are doing a lot of harm to the issue of trans inclusion. The ones that weird bigotry and mock trans people like you, Michael Knowles or Matt Walsh are doing a lot of damage to the con position too. Indeed today there were a handful of resignations from the daily wire over this issue. Neither one of the extremists is doing their side any good.

I’m hardly an sjw. I’m a classical liberal/libertarian with strong anti post modernist tendencies. My position here is actually very centrist. Funny you see ghosts around every corner.

No, demanding an "accommodation" be made to a very small portion of the population, because they don't get everything they want, isn't "centrist" at all. A true libertarian wouldn't sit around dreaming up bullshit laws because people need more rules and regulations.

Have you and SurFutbol ever been seen in the same room at the same time?