I don't think anyone on here, especially a parent wants their kid or any kid to suffer, feel less than, or not feel included. It is an unbelievably nuanced situation, and I agree there are so many potential mental health concerns involved across the board. Wherever it lands, there will be people who will be unhappy with the result. There are so many things to consider and this is the problem...from my perspective you have people saying children as young as three can make a decision for the rest of their life, but these kids don't know better to eat dinner before desert, but they can make a life changing decisions? You have teachers talking about sex in schools that would get them fired for sexual harassment in the work place, or teachers hiding transition plans from parents. Its polarizing. Most people go by their experiences...we have family friends where the dad played in the NFL. His youngest son 10 years ago or whatever it was, was so into Frozen...movie, princesses, etc. He was obsessed...it was tough on the Dad in particular...they talked to some people and the advice was let it play out and support him...after about two years he was into trucks, dirt and wanted to play football. It would not have mattered either way to the parents, they would have supported him. But the kid needed time to figure himself out and he did. Pulling the trigger too early, or supporting change too early with young people is dangerous...give them time to figure out forever decisions. People are not as Phobic as some people think. Forever decisions too early is a HUGE mistake and in my opinion should not happen. too early and without parent involvement and the Gov't should step the F out, let the kids, grow, mature, figure it out, and people and organizations with agendas should back the f off and stop supporting things at the expense of children to support their narritive.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
I don't think anyone on here, especially a parent wants their kid or any kid to suffer, feel less than, or not feel included. It is an unbelievably nuanced situation, and I agree there are so many potential mental health concerns involved across the board. Wherever it lands, there will be people who will be unhappy with the result. There are so many things to consider and this is the problem...from my perspective you have people saying children as young as three can make a decision for the rest of their life, but these kids don't know better to eat dinner before desert, but they can make a life changing decisions? You have teachers talking about sex in schools that would get them fired for sexual harassment in the work place, or teachers hiding transition plans from parents. Its polarizing. Most people go by their experiences...we have family friends where the dad played in the NFL. His youngest son 10 years ago or whatever it was, was so into Frozen...movie, princesses, etc. He was obsessed...it was tough on the Dad in particular...they talked to some people and the advice was let it play out and support him...after about two years he was into trucks, dirt and wanted to play football. It would not have mattered either way to the parents, they would have supported him. But the kid needed time to figure himself out and he did. Pulling the trigger too early, or supporting change too early with young people is dangerous...give them time to figure out forever decisions. People are not as Phobic as some people think. Forever decisions too early is a HUGE mistake and in my opinion should not happen. too early and without parent involvement and the Gov't should step the F out, let the kids, grow, mature, figure it out, and people and organizations with agendas should back the f off and stop supporting things at the expense of children to support their narritive.
Nobody is trying to convince you of anything...Why can't we disagree without me being a Phobe or something? C'mon....Your ask of empathy is so one sided. I have a lot of empathy for Trans Kids and their families and I would bet my life savings most people here do too. Those same people have legitimate concerns that matter to them that may not matter to you, that's ok and does not make somebody bad or evil. My empathy is void because I don't agree with you? Because I don't share your perspective I am this Phobe, racist, blah, blah, blah....it is some of the most closed minded BS I have ever heard. I'm just really f'ing tired of people trying to cancel people for their opinions and beliefs because they oppose their own. I don't hate Trans Kids, Trans Adults, Trans anything...I also care deeply about Women's Rights as Dad of two Daughters. Why can't I support both and have a different view?
You haven't said anything I materially disagree with. Thoughtful. But that's not what dad4 and perhaps a handful of the others are doing (13 knots is doing his reverse outlaw trolling and crush is just crush). Sure you can argue it isn't healthy for a fat person to be fat. You can try to persuade the overweight person they should lose weight. You can even politely say "hey friend to friend, it's not healthy...you might want to lose a few...I say this because I care and worry about you". But when you repeatedly make little comments that put them down or, in his self-confessed words, are intended to be "rude", something else is going on.
"Cancel culture" is just a term that people use when they're upset about being held accountable for their abysmal behavior. If you want to avoid repercussions for being a horrible person, don't be a horrible person.
I'm not sure how many times I need to say that there is nothing wrong with considering ALL of the relevant factors and deciding that they weigh in favor of one position or another. The problem - including your problem - is that you still can't even admit that the factors that trans children, me, ECNL, CIF, the NCAA, the USWNT, many of Lia Thomas' competitors and others keep identifying to explain why they support trans participation in kiddie sports aren't even legitimate factors to be considered. That is transphobic, pure and simple, no matter how much you claim to pay lip service for having a lot of empathy for trans kids. The reality is you're confusing empathy with being patronizing. If you can't acknowledge that legitimate reasons exist to support allowing trans children playing kiddie soccer, including ECNL, then you're just full of shit and should get used to being called transphobic, because you are. How many times do you think I've challenged you and others to at least recognize that there are legitimate reasons to support trans participation in youth sports? Yet all you can do is pretend I didn't and whine some self-pitying nonsense about getting "cancelled".
Your definition of cancel culture is a hoot. How do you know I have not considered the factors and weighted them differently than you and came to my own conclusions? They are just not yours. I'm very sure you are a smart and educated person. You are also very closed minded. Wishing you the best. Because I disagree with you does not make me phobic.
I know you have not considered the factors and weighted them differently because you still aren't. Honestly, it's pretty pathetic that you're even asking me "how do you know?", when you could just admit that trans girls have their own athletic disadvantages to cis girls in girls soccer, including those I have discussed earlier, and that those are things that should also be considered alongside any purported "physiological advantage" they might have. But you won't, because you're transphobic. To you, it doesn't matter how much or how many trans girls suffer emotionally, it doesn't matter how little support trans girls typically have from their own parents to participate in sports, it doesn't how horrible the abuse must get forcing trans girls to play on a boys team, none of that matters to you at all. You have made it crystal clear that you will never, ever concede anything that requires considering the humanity of trans children.
Does it make you sad when people are held accountable for their behavior?
I will also add that it isn't the fact that you weigh something against something else that matters, but WHAT you are willing to weigh. If you can't appreciate that the inevitable abuse that many trans children will face having to play on boys teams should be part of the equation that determines where best to allow trans girls to play, then, yeah you're transphobic. If you can't appreciate that the emotional disadvantages and the lack of support many face from their own parents are factors that should be considered in determining whether trans children even have actual overall athletic advantages, then yeah, you're transphobic.
Your main complaint seems to be that I refuse to adopt your language. You object to any term which fails to assert that XY individuals are female.
Therefore, if I use any language to remind people that the athletes in question are biologically male, you two start with the insults.
“Male” isn‘t a put down. It is a neutral description of a fact which you are desperately trying to censor.
I specifically said I wouldn't have had a problem with it if your point had been they remain biological males. No one here so far has disputed that you can't turn a biological female into a biological female. That's not what you did. You yourself admitted your intent was to be rude. Again, either you have a disability and can't help yourself (change your avatar to a clownfish for example), or you are doing it deliberately and are a horrible horrible person. It's happened more than once as well, and not just your assertion that biological males are biological males.
I'm now hyper curious as to why you even started the thread. It's clear your a hypertriggered. It would be interesting to know the event that caused it. If it was just reading about Lia in the newspaper, time to put down the news.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
From Feb 9th
Earlier today
Hahaha! Why on earth would you EVER care for EOTL's approval? No one could possibly do more harm to the "cause" they support than EOTL does with his "support". He's an angry, talking point parrot in a frenzied state that renders him incapable of critical thinking - the left's version of the Westboro Baptist Church. If he supports something I say, I check what I said carefully. Of course, even the devil mixes truth with lies.
Earlier today
I enter into evidence, Exhibit A.
Actually "cancel culture" is a tool used by people, often a self-righteous mob, that can't handle, or are offended by, an opposing opinion. Often used in conjunction with cries of the offender being something that ends in "ist" or "phobic".
I started the thread to hear the thoughts of the many intelligent people who are trying to find a way to meet the needs of both the girl athletes and the mtf trans athletes.
There have been several helpful posts, raising issues of the need for all kids to have a place to play, the inherent physical imbalance between men and women, the possible adverse incentive of making rules depend on a medical procedure, the hypocrisy of offering up rec only because our kids are in comp, and so on. The core of a reasonable logical discussion is there.
We also have you and EOTL.
Haha many of those points were raised by me or eotl. again the issue is being caused by your inability to self reflect on everything from calling all trans “obvious”, mansplaining misogyny to me, heterosplaining gayness to me, and your most recent self admitted “rudeness” among others. Again a more normal person would have engaged in some introspection of why they went over the line, particularly someone who is around these kids and an educator. In conjunction with your entire Covid debacle it leaves the explanation that either you must be disabled and don’t understand what you are doing, or you do and are a horrible person. Too many incidents to just be an innocent coincidence. The only ones here with that many incidents are arguably crush or 13 knots.
I can’t really say you got anything wrong here. I do note however the extremist con position is supported by Mr authoritarian himself , which also says something.
You raised a great suggestion with respect to creating a third division for college sports.
It's just overwhelmed by your name calling, your contempt for girls sports, and your denialism regarding the athletic gap between men and women.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
You can read about the finding in my research paper: "The Reverse Influence of Nutters". Maybe I need to further analyze the effect on individuals with respect to their authoritarian score.
I have a strict policy of never initiating (I wasn’t the one who dropped the word “crazy” and in reference to a possible disability with you have avoided any such slur and have expressed only compassion for you). I don’t have a contempt for girls sports— I just don’t think ecnl in any way shape or form compares to the academy programs either here or in Europe. I don’t deny the athletic gap…my tests are do we care about the cheaters and can we balance that gap. If not we must make some other accommodation. It’s a long pattern with you if bending your opponents beliefs. Again I can only hope you do so because you do not have full comprehension and it is something innocent instead of bad faith.
it doesn’t surprise me I am shocked by you. The authoritarianism hypocrisy and safetyism you had with Covid was enough to shock me. Your behavior here, whether the mainsplaining misogyny to me, the heterosplaining gayness, the shocking self-interest, the questionableness of the words “creature” and “queer”, the remark that all trans people were “obvious”, the Greer remark, the ingenerosity in that you demand it’s all about the bow for cis girls but then you callously turn around and deny the same for trans kids, the blatant hysteria baiting, and your most recent masterpiece of self admitted rudeness (a remark which was clearly intended to put down trans kids as it could have been made in a non rude way) has horrified me. Again for your sake I pray this is a disability and you do not know what you do. Because otherwise it’s a horror an educator would view the world that way in this day and age.
Throw Back Thursday
I tried to leave but you keep mentioning my name with Outlaw. I remember Outlaw getting so mad at me because I would start with, "my dd..." This is Crush in 2000. I played dress up, I won't lie. I loved it and had so much fun that evening, especially the attention I got from the ladies. I love all people. Like I said many many many many many many many times, I just don't want what a Lia soccer player against the girls in college. I also said co-ed works for me early on. At the highest level of sport, it has to be bio males vs bio males and bio females vs bio females. I really do feel like a woman on the inside Grace. The crazy folks over at Truth Social have accused me of being a woman at least 6+ times now for how I write. I write how I feel. If any of my satire hurt your or EOTL feelings, I sorry.
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Happened again
SILVER ELITE
such nonsense...societal interests, kiddie soccer, Lia Thomas, ECNL, NCAA, USWNT, CIF...blah, blah...AND you throw in word EMPATHY.
You've created the transphobe boogeyman that lurks in this thread.