Happened again
SILVER ELITE
how do you know all of this?
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
I don't know about you, but I sleep much better at night knowing that EOTL/GG/SF is the gatekeeper of societal interests.
Proposing to study something to death instead of acting is itself a form of denialism.
Again unclear whether you are clouded by bias or you have a disability and you aren’t able to understand the moving parts. You clearly aren’t stupid so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here. The only thing the studies have shown us is that as a result of puberty men have an athletic advantage over women. What’s been new and only in the last 10-15 years or so (and undermines all the assumptions built up in the 80s and 90s) is the assumptions of balancing have been wrong because of what happens during puberty. Also that our assumption of ftms have been wrong hence the new concerns there. The work that hasn’t been done is whether stricter rebalancing works, and what impact the new assumptions make, which has to be done sport by sport and with few data points (the small number of trans athletes who are on rebalancing and who are willing to be tracked). That’s science. Not your let’s believe at fauci but everything the experts have to say about this subject is wrong. And there’s no rush. There will be lias. They’ll adjust. Eventually we’ll know for sure but it will take time. And if a rebalancing doesn’t work you must propose an alternate solution because dumping both directions in the men’s division isn’t “fair” either. Again hoping it’s a disability.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
You gotta admit, @crush, she pulls it off better than you. I feel like you didn't go "all in" by not shaving your chest. It's something to think about for next time.
If we agree that “as a result of puberty men have an athletic advantage over women.”, that seems to settle the scientific question for anyone who has gone through male puberty.
This is the argument for drawing a line at 12 or 13. Male puberty, by itself, is an athletic advantage.
What other science do you need to figure out whether a 17 year old unmedicated ftm athlete has an advantage over a 17 year old girl? One went through male puberty and continues to have high testosterone. One didn’t and doesn’t.
Stop it! Your just a transphobic, bigot, racist and jealous of my hairs on me chest....
17 is youth for which we don’t test for cheaters. We’ve been through this unpteem times. What you trying to accomplish again? Is it a disability? The question in this division of whether men are superior in performance to women is irrelevant because we know those on Peds are to the non and we don’t do anything about them.
as for young adult where we do test it’s not enough to say the men outperform the women. You have to ask if any rebalancing does the trick. We used to think the answer was yes. Our assumptions have been thrown on their heads which means our assumptions about ftms are wrong too. You want to declare everything over. That’s not science. That’s religion again. Scientifically we are only at the end of the beginning and the few number of data points means it’s gonna take a decade or two because we gotta go sport by sport and errors will be made in both directions
Let's not forget about the chest hairs as well. I here the more hairs you got, the stronger one is. Back hair is a whole different issue, I have some funny meme's to show today.
1. Dad4 is not a transphobe, he's a Grace T Phobe and a surfutbol phobe because you two aren't recognizing his thoughts but continue to expect him to recognize yours.
2. Why can't people feel like a women with a male genitals and hormones or vice versa? It's ok to feel that way. Why must society these days make them feel like they need to change their body to be "correct"? How a body looks doesn't change who a human being is inside. I blame the Kardashians for making people feel like they need plastic surgery to be who they "truly" are inside. Any amount of plastic surgery will not change who they are.
3. We don't do anything with them. What everyone is telling you is that we leave them as who they are and respect it. They're born male with female minds. Sports is not about how you feel, it's about your birth gender. Ask all the parents who want their kids to be Olympians or even on ECNL teams, your kid is born the way they are and you respect it . You don't get to force them into a new team with hormones and surgery. You don't change them, you love them for it and see how far they can go with it. We just need to respect boys, regardless of how they dress and act. They shouldn't be expected to wear pants and have short hair. They can wear dresses and makeup with long hair.
4. He's mocking you and surfutbol, not trans people. Don't try to transfer that hatred over to trans people, they don't need to be used as your human shield.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
This played out on a much bigger stage in the NHL a few weeks back. The Flyers participated in an "LGBTQ+ Pride Night" during a home game where they wrapped their sticks in rainbow tape and wore warmup jerseys - both of which were auctioned off after the game. One player chose not to participate due to his religious beliefs. So, after the game, there was universal coverage of the overwhelming support for the LGBTQ+ event, right? No. Coverage was all about the individual that chose not to participate. After the game, he was questioned and responded,
"I respect everybody, and I respect everybody’s choices. My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion. That’s all I’m going to say."
Media Responses
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“homophobe,” “bigot,” “disgrace,” “an awful human being,” and scold him not to “hide behind religion.” Perhaps the most fervent and viral reaction came from NHL Network senior reporter E. J. Hradek, who went on-air to imply Provorov should leave the country and join the Russia/Ukraine War if he doesn’t want to participate in the Pride event:
“Ivan Provorov can get on a plane any day he wants and go back to a place where he feels more comfortable, take less money and get on with his life that way if it’s that problematic for him. If this is that much of a problem for him, to maybe assimilate into his group of teammates, and in the community and here in this country, that’s OK. Listen, you can feel any way you want. But the beauty is, if it bothers you that much, there’s always a chance to leave, go back to where you feel more comfortable — I understand there’s a conflict of sorts going on over there, maybe get involved.”
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Ok, so, it's the NY Rangers' turn a week later. What happens? They don't wear the Pride Jerseys or tape their sticks. Nutters for the win!!! It's amazing how authoritarian this movement has become. It will continue to lose those sympathetic to its cause but can't support the authoritarian expectations of unhinged zealots.
Very well put. I am a very strong Empath, like off the charts for a man. I think like a woman on the inside but I am all man on the outside, as you can see with my chest hairs. My shrink told me that I was unbalanced and needed to be more masculine on the inside because I cried for people, cared for others, did not like cheating and I was too honest as a businessman. I was kind of like Coach Dick Vermeil, who always cried. Crying is healthy and healing and very good for the soul. I still cry sometimes but not out of anger anymore. I cry for peace and love for each other. TY for sharing.
Chelsea dad g09
SILVER
You're waxing poetic about humanity and empathy towards trans kids feelings but are the same guy that was saying that the kids committing suicide during covid lockdowns were weak and blaming their parents. What is it, trans kids feelings are more important than non trans? Bet you wont answer. Pardon me if I think you're a hypocritical fuck.
1. I've recognized the thoughts of others who are on the con side including kicking and woobie. Some people on the con side have raised intelligent points. That's not what dad 4 is doing. And when he's caught in his internal contradictions, he lashes out. Like the point about it being all "about the hair bow" not the training, and that they aren't "soccer robots". It's led me to question whether he just refuses to see the internal contradictions to his logic, or if he is just disabled and incapable of seeing them (in which case, I'd give him a pass). My position (and suprisingly that of EOTL) is actually quite moderate which is a sliding scale and has been wholly rejected by "my tribe" as prejudicial. Indeed, the hard left position is that gender is a spectrum and anyone should be free to declare and play anywhere on that spectrum at any time. The hard left position is also very much pro transitioning kids early, so as to avoid people mocking them for being "obvious" as dad 4 has.
2. I don't know the answer for 2 as I don't know enough about the psychology and why the so-called experts think transitioning is a way to alieviate the problems with gender dysmorphia. I do pose a dilemma for you, however. If people object to people with equipment being in the women's restroom (given that people are moving in both directions, and eventually a ftm will have equipment as well, making a biological test not convenient, if we want to keep people with equipment out of the women's restroom), what happens to the trans person that transition socially but not physically or chemically.....perpetually relegated to the men's room? We going to reorganize all bathrooms from schools to offices to stadiums to be private?
3. You are being entirely hypocritical with your #3. Everyone says here that they care about fairness. It has been shown the ftm and mtf cannot compete with a cis male actively on testosterone. If you don't want them in the f division, it's incumbent on you, if you really care about fairness instead of just using it as a pretext, to come up with a solution for them. Part of this is that the hard con position is wedded to the idea that this is a choice. They are choosing to lose their m or f status, and therefore should be the ones to bear the cost. The hard con position is that they were just groomed. It reeks of the antigay stuff (why can't they just choose to be straight) that permeated 10 years ago. It's a disability. We as a society have chosen to extend accommodations to the disabled. It is a right. That right is not absolute. Accommodations for the disabled are subject to a balancing test, otherwise every bathroom would have a disabled stall in it even in every private home.
4. It's no skin off my nose. I'm not the fat one, using the analogy you used. But if someone is going around mocking the fat people, to get to the ones that aren't, you got to raise an eyebrow to the one doing the mocking. It's missing it's target and just showing the person to be an ass, unless it can be excused for disability.
B.S. That's one way to rationalize your hatred of trans children I suppose.
Chelsea dad g09
SILVER
Knew you wouldnt answer, troll.
thirteenknots
SILVER ELITE
I Cry OUT for the TRUTH...!
And this whole MTF/FTM " Falsehood " is being
used as a Tool to divide.
Only God decides whether a Zygote ultimately
becomes a Male or Female.
Altering the outward physical appearances of a human
to copy the opposite sex is not Creating.
Beyond that, letting MTF play in Female sports is
CHEATING.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
What exactly is your point with this meme?
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
It's a mistake to assume that EOTL's goal is to promote his beliefs with reason - as pretty much everyone else here does. His responses make sense when viewed from the perspective that his goal is NOT to state a reasoned position but to direct his everpresent rage at someone. Put another way, consider going to one of the funerals the Westboro Baptist Church "protested" and attempting to have a reasoned discussion with the protesters. How do you think that would go? Nutters gonna Nut.