I agree 100% Today is my day off so I did a lot research & reading so I reported my findings. We all need to get better educated to help our kids and Nation grow the sport and take it in the right direction.
Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL
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I agree 100% Today is my day off so I did a lot research & reading so I reported my findings. We all need to get better educated to help our kids and Nation grow the sport and take it in the right direction.
Love for kids, love for soccer and love for country is the call of the hour Luis. Thanks for the findings.
The boys academies are teaching something called us possessional play. It’s a possessional system that emphasizes looking for the direct options when possible, using the press to force errors, and using physicality where possible. Supposedly it emphasizes possessional play in practice but is not beholden to it. Different academies have a different emphasis but that’s the foundation. It trickles down somewhat imperfectly to mls next and the second teams as a result. Since ecnl is not plugged into that, given the politics on the boys side between ecnl and mls next, the girls have no such targets. It’s similar to the system being taught in the English academies which is probably where it comes from
Two touches or less or you sit on the bench is how my daughter was taught possession. You can't do possessional play if you got ball hogs on the team and selfish parents looking out for their own. Some players at Showcases turned into yellers, "ball, ball, pass me the ball" "pass to me pass to me, I'm open." These showcases have turned into individual "Showoff Games." Seriously, it's like circus act of jugglers and those who can go 1 v 5 obstacle course contests and see who can score the most. Theses scores are worse than the ECNL semi's that Jill Ellis was talking about. The GDA had 14-0 scores all the time and little "Miss Susie the Scorer" would get double Hat Tricks in one game. What is a double Hat Trick? Yup, 6 goals in one game. Pad those numbers to be scoring champ. Talk about being "goal chasers" to pad one's stats. Some chase medals, some chase goals for themselves. What freaking mess we have on our hands. Step #1 to fix this is to block "daddy" from the selection process.
That kind of thing only happens when one team is WAY better than the other.
It's also when direct play shines the most.
When you play better teams that know how to do posession + double on defense suddenly direct players won't score and they'll get tired chasing the ball as it gets switched back and forth on the field.
You often see "B" teams that tear up 2nd level leagues but suddenly struggle when they play the next level up. Above is what's happening. Playing as a team with set roles and responsibilities slows down the game + over time allows players to implement targeted attacks on where ever the opponent is weak.
I forget where I read the story Luis, but a guy moved here from Iran as a high school student and the kids were playing a sport he never heard of called, Soccer. The guy from Iran only knew how to play Futbol. I think we were just taught a certain way of playing a sport with our feet that we invented called, "Soccer." Sock the ball, sock your opponent and sock anyone in your way. Many refs allow this rugby style soccer on the pitch because they have no clue, and they get paid to ref whatever style the payer wants. We have to bleach this old sport, then start a new sport called, Futbol if we want to change. Yes, we will always have both and sometimes both might play against each other, Futbol vs Soccer from time to time but let's not kid ourselves, these two are two different sports altogether. That's my conclusion. Refs ref soccer (Sock-Her) one way and Ref's ref Futbol another way. Another name for Soccer could be, Direct Style Kickball. This is another dangerous style and is one of the reasons why so many girls are getting hurt. If you try and bring Soccer to Spain, you will be kindly asked to leave and banned from participation. Of course, warnings will be given out like Yellow's and Reds very quickly and looks from fans with disdain for that type of aggressive play on the pitch. You will not win any fans with Direct Kickball. American Soccer kickball/Rugby would never be allowed in Spain. Futbol is only allowed.
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I've heard coming from a friend who's been there and done the soccer journey with his kids that it is not recommended to play high school girls soccer. Especially if you are a good player that can dribble. The team will rely on your kid so she will have the ball a lot but it comes with high risk of being taken out by an emotional player that is probably flight 3 anywhere else. Unfortuntely his daughter paid the price for playing high school soccer, She was going to go D1 but never fully recovered. Time went by and she just decided not to play anymore. Maybe with rehab she theoretically should have been able to make a come back but you know at that age when your time is not spent practicing you spend it with friends and there are boyfriends too. So that was it.
High school soccer is roller derby with a ball and super dangerous. If we had a Professional, Possessional, Respectful & Honest pathway for Futbol, then no way my little one would have endangered herself. However, if any dd wants to play HHS, they should be allowed to but also be warned of the risk. Every game I watched for four years gave me fear and I'm just glad she made it out without a severe injury. She got whacked a few times by some big and fast girls that have no business playing soccer, let alone futbol. Like I said b4 Luis, if we taught Futbol at High School, then it could be a fun way to play with your friends. Add the boys to the mix and it's next to impossible to make it Pro.
Returning to the topic of possession soccer, Pep Guardiola famously values "position over possession." He believes that mere ball retention without forward intent is futile. While Tiki-Taka is often hailed as the quintessential Spanish approach to possession soccer, it wasn't fundamentally positional. Tiki-Taka primarily emphasized short passes and ball circulation, with the concept of positional superiority taking a backseat.
So, how does positional play differ from Tiki-Taka when both prioritize possession? The key distinction lies in their approach: Tiki-Taka can be viewed as unstructured spontaneous possession, while positional play is more of a systematic tactical possession. At the heart of positional play is the pursuit of positional superiority, largely achieved by identifying the "free man." This shouldn't be confused with the "third man" concept in possession soccer, which focuses on triangular play. The free man is typically an unmarked player who positions himself between defensive lines, often resulting from the numerical advantages (like 3v2 or 4v3 situations) inherent in the positional play strategy.
Suppose the team progresses to a point on the field where positional superiority is neutralized—say, in the attacking third where every player is marked. The strategy then is to circulate the ball backward, expanding the field's width and depth to reestablish numerical dominance. Here, things like dribbling at your opponent to lure him in to free up someone else come into prominence, as does the tactic of luring the opponent to press. By drawing them out, spaces emerge between defensive lines. This allows the free man to slot into these gaps, continuing the team's forward progression. Which can eventually lead to a numerical superiority in the attacking third where the opportunity to shoot and or score is given. By moving through the pitch with numerical superiority within strategic areas of the pitch you are always in a great position to win the ball back if you lose possession by being able to press the ball in any given area where you have numerical superiority and thus preventing counter attacks.
So, how does positional play differ from Tiki-Taka when both prioritize possession? The key distinction lies in their approach: Tiki-Taka can be viewed as unstructured spontaneous possession, while positional play is more of a systematic tactical possession. At the heart of positional play is the pursuit of positional superiority, largely achieved by identifying the "free man." This shouldn't be confused with the "third man" concept in possession soccer, which focuses on triangular play. The free man is typically an unmarked player who positions himself between defensive lines, often resulting from the numerical advantages (like 3v2 or 4v3 situations) inherent in the positional play strategy.
Suppose the team progresses to a point on the field where positional superiority is neutralized—say, in the attacking third where every player is marked. The strategy then is to circulate the ball backward, expanding the field's width and depth to reestablish numerical dominance. Here, things like dribbling at your opponent to lure him in to free up someone else come into prominence, as does the tactic of luring the opponent to press. By drawing them out, spaces emerge between defensive lines. This allows the free man to slot into these gaps, continuing the team's forward progression. Which can eventually lead to a numerical superiority in the attacking third where the opportunity to shoot and or score is given. By moving through the pitch with numerical superiority within strategic areas of the pitch you are always in a great position to win the ball back if you lose possession by being able to press the ball in any given area where you have numerical superiority and thus preventing counter attacks.
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One of the knocks on one of my dd #1 teams in the country was that we held onto the ball too much, passed backwards way too much and did not have the "kill the mouse" now instincts and not always bring ganas to the pitch. We played around with the mouse way too much and it cost us a few times and I might say, it cost us to be in the running of one of the greatest possession teams ever assembled. "Girls, we played real pretty soccer today. However, the best team lost today." Why? Because they played around and did not destroy the opponent. I like possession with the intent to score always and move forward and not backwards 90% of the time. Most players can pass it back, but can they pass it forward and in spaces and lead the player to the right spot? I love Futbol. No wonder I was not a fan of soccer. Great stuff bro. You know how to research and the forum need's more dads like you Luis. I know you had to obey the NFP agreement, but I like you free now and free to write and express your opinions. You write really good or is it "well?" Anyway, to each his own
One of the knocks on one of my dd #1 teams in the country was that we held onto the ball too much, passed backwards way too much and did not have the "kill the mouse" now instincts and not always bring ganas to the pitch. We played around with the mouse way too much and it cost us a few times and I might say, it cost us to be in the running of one of the greatest possession teams ever assembled. "Girls, we played real pretty soccer today. However, the best team lost today." Why? Because they played around and did not destroy the opponent. I like possession with the intent to score always and move forward and not backwards 90% of the time. Most players can pass it back, but can they pass it forward and in spaces and lead the player to the right spot? I love Futbol. No wonder I was not a fan of soccer. Great stuff bro. You know how to research and the forum need's more dads like you Luis. I know you had to obey the NFP agreement, but I like you free now and free to write and express your opinions. You write really good or is it "well?" Anyway, to each his own
I would say well. I can take complex concepts and find ways to simplify them so others can understand the main objective. I gave this example because I originally questioned it myself. Everyone talks about possession soccer so freely which can lead to misunderstandings and confusion. So I’m trying to clarify things for you all.
Thank you
How can we talk about possession soccer without going back to its roots. Last one for today.
Imagine soccer as an evolving art form. If that's the case, then "Total Football" would be its Renaissance period - grand, revolutionary, and the forefather to many styles we see today.
Before the rhythm of Tiki-Taka and the systematic dance of Positional Play, there was Total Football, making waves and causing raised eyebrows everywhere. Often celebrated as the "father" of possession soccer, Total Football is not just about having the ball but about creating an ever-changing canvas with player movements, morphing formations, and collective understanding.
So, how does it stand apart from its "offspring" - Tiki-Taka and Positional Play? Well, the essence of Total Football revolves around its fluidity: everyone can play everywhere. It's as if the whole team took a "do-it-all" potion. Defenders can become attackers, midfielders can slot into defense, and so on. This constant movement, combined with high pressing, makes it a double-edged sword - dominating possession while suffocating opponents.
Now, contrast this with Tiki-Taka's rapid passing sequences. While Tiki-Taka is all about lulling opponents with hypnotic short passes, Total Football is about the players themselves becoming the ball, shifting and rotating. And, when we bring Positional Play into the picture, which focuses on positioning and finding that "free man," Total Football integrates these principles but adds layers of player interchangeability.
Imagine playing musical chairs, but instead of sitting when the music stops, everyone assumes a new role in the team! That's Total Football for you.
Perhaps the most vibrant canvas painted by this style was by the **Dutch national team in the 1970s**. Guided by the maestro Rinus Michels and starring the artist Johan Cruyff, they showcased how Total Football was both an art and a science. They might not have clinched the World Cup, but their influence? Oh, it’s etched forever in the annals of soccer, laying the foundational principles for high pressing and fluid possession systems we witness today. The Dutch maestros might look down today and think, "We started that!"
Imagine soccer as an evolving art form. If that's the case, then "Total Football" would be its Renaissance period - grand, revolutionary, and the forefather to many styles we see today.
Before the rhythm of Tiki-Taka and the systematic dance of Positional Play, there was Total Football, making waves and causing raised eyebrows everywhere. Often celebrated as the "father" of possession soccer, Total Football is not just about having the ball but about creating an ever-changing canvas with player movements, morphing formations, and collective understanding.
So, how does it stand apart from its "offspring" - Tiki-Taka and Positional Play? Well, the essence of Total Football revolves around its fluidity: everyone can play everywhere. It's as if the whole team took a "do-it-all" potion. Defenders can become attackers, midfielders can slot into defense, and so on. This constant movement, combined with high pressing, makes it a double-edged sword - dominating possession while suffocating opponents.
Now, contrast this with Tiki-Taka's rapid passing sequences. While Tiki-Taka is all about lulling opponents with hypnotic short passes, Total Football is about the players themselves becoming the ball, shifting and rotating. And, when we bring Positional Play into the picture, which focuses on positioning and finding that "free man," Total Football integrates these principles but adds layers of player interchangeability.
Imagine playing musical chairs, but instead of sitting when the music stops, everyone assumes a new role in the team! That's Total Football for you.
Perhaps the most vibrant canvas painted by this style was by the **Dutch national team in the 1970s**. Guided by the maestro Rinus Michels and starring the artist Johan Cruyff, they showcased how Total Football was both an art and a science. They might not have clinched the World Cup, but their influence? Oh, it’s etched forever in the annals of soccer, laying the foundational principles for high pressing and fluid possession systems we witness today. The Dutch maestros might look down today and think, "We started that!"
I watched first few minutes and just love this style of futbol and the freedom to move around the pitch and not have other players yell at you or parents telling you to get back to your area of the field. Roam around and find the space. The other team was already getting tired and huffing and puffing like the stupid bad wolf. We got tricked with soccer is all I can say. If our youth leagues were like this, we could be done away with, "My dd plays the 10 and only the 10" or, "I play CM and that's it." First off, you go where coach tells you to go and you best better learn all the positions in real futbol is all I can say. One thing I hated about our youth system, all the top players parents and even some of the players demanded their dd play the 10 or the position that dad thinks is best. It's high time we start playing the game the right way. My dd has played all positions and is willing to play anywhere asked, just as long as she get's to play in the game. Total Football gives you total freedom to create and move about. Luis, has this style caused problems for selfish players on the team or do they unjust and not get all mad if a defender finds his way up top and tells the striker, "Hey pal, you had your chance to score and choked. I'm here now. Get your ass back on defense for a change and let me have a crack at it."
Looks like posts are missing I put a nice explanation of the third man vs free man in positional play. Ohh well, it was good info. Anyways @Ellejustus congratulations I saw the pictures…
I saw this video from Pep
he was talking about passing and how much he loves it and that it’s in his DNA/Culture
but it wasn’t just any passes , it was the 5-7 yard passes with constant movement of players. He talked about how the 20-25 yard passes just don’t work at the highest level, the ball takes too long to get to the players and the defenders are just too good for you to have any success
I thought , you know who loved the 20-25 yard passes ?, our USWNT at the WC
he was talking about passing and how much he loves it and that it’s in his DNA/Culture
but it wasn’t just any passes , it was the 5-7 yard passes with constant movement of players. He talked about how the 20-25 yard passes just don’t work at the highest level, the ball takes too long to get to the players and the defenders are just too good for you to have any success
I thought , you know who loved the 20-25 yard passes ?, our USWNT at the WC
whatithink
GOLD
It was interesting, but a good press team blows it up, e.g. in your third man example the premise was that only the opposing 6 moves, but that's not what would happen - defender passes to mid, opposing 6 presses / opposing 9 slides over to cover the back pass, mid cannot pass to originator and likely has to pass to RB or across to defender on other side - conclusion is that the 8 (your third man) does not get the ball.
This is how you beat the press, but its really hard for obvious reasons.
I was basically trying to show the difference between the Third Man and the Free Man as it can be confusing for people. Let me post again,
Third Man
In Guardiola's system, the "third man" concept isn't merely about forming triangles; it's also about creating overloads in specific areas to break down well-organized defenses. His teams use quick one-twos and third-man runs to bypass defensive lines. A key aspect of this is that the "third man" often starts his movement well before the initial pass is made, timing his run to offer a passing outlet that is virtually impossible to defend. This type of play is often rehearsed in training and is a staple in breaking down teams that defend in deep blocks.
Free Man
Guardiola's take on the "free man" concept often involves positional awareness and intelligence. Players are instructed to find space and become the "free man" in zones where they can either keep possession or create dangerous situations. Often, this involves midfielders dropping deep to create overloads, wingers cutting inside, or even center-backs advancing into the midfield. Guardiola wants his players to be aware of spaces and move into them dynamically, making it difficult for the opposing team to mark them.
Key Differences According to Guardiola:
- Fluidity: Guardiola’s system is highly fluid, and players are often seen rotating roles. A "free man" in one phase of play can become a "third man" in the next, depending on how play develops.
- Build-up Play: In the build-up phase, the "free man" is often a player in a deeper position, sometimes even the goalkeeper. Guardiola likes to use the goalkeeper as an extra outfield player to maintain numerical superiority against the press.
- Positional Discipline: Even though the roles are fluid, Guardiola insists on positional discipline. The "third man" usually emerges out of positional play that adheres to certain geometrical rules that create the conditions for overloads and third-man runs.
- High Press and Transition: Both the "third man" and "free man" concepts are not just used in possession but also in transitions and pressing. Guardiola's teams often use these ideas to win back the ball quickly or exploit spaces during quick counter-attacks.
Third Man (Arises from off the ball movement usually from moving the ball in triangles)
The "third man" often arises from off-the-ball movement. In this scenario, the player understands when and where to make the run to become the "third man" in a passing triangle or sequence. Timing and movement are essential, and the player must read the game well to find the spaces where he can receive the ball to either maintain possession or create a goal-scoring opportunity.
Example: #4 passes the ball to #9 which draws #6 defender to #9
#9 plays the ball back to # 4 creating the decoy for #8 to move off the ball into empty space
#8 is the Third Man as he just made a third man run
Free Man (Arises from positional superiority not moving off the ball from a triangle passing sequence)
The "free man," on the other hand, often arises from positional superiority. In a Guardiola system, this might mean the player is standing between defensive lines, making it difficult for the opponent to mark him without compromising their defensive structure. The player in this role must have excellent positional awareness and the technical ability to quickly distribute the ball once it's received. The player is unmarked with a lot of time and space to receive the ball and can easily turn to keep advancing the ball forward.
The situation here is the #10 is sitting between the lines. The defensive line is not approaching him because they are trying to maintain their structure. They wouldn't want to leave #9 the striker alone in a 1v1. This is a clear example of #10 being the free man but not the third man.
In this scenario the Free Man and the Third Man are the same
Here the Free Man is Messi, assuming he drops down between lines and is standing free with space and time to turn but he is not the Third Man. Plyers 8,5,6 are making up the triangle
in essence:
- The "third man" is often about intelligent movement and timing, exploiting spaces left open by defensive movements or teammates dragging defenders out of position.
- The "free man" is more about smart positioning, standing in areas that either force the opponent to compromise their shape or offer a safe outlet for maintaining possession.
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I like the sound of "free man." We had a player back in ASO days that was allowed to play anywhere he wanted. The name slips my memory, but he started behind the Mids but in front of the defense. Rover type player.
In many of Pep Guardiola's tactical setups, the main objective is to find the "free man." By consistently finding a player who has managed to escape close marking, the team can maintain possession, stretch the opponent's defense, and potentially create goal-scoring opportunities. The "free man" often acts as a pivot or hub for circulating the ball and progressing it up the field.
Guardiola emphasizes positional play to create overloads and positional superiority, both horizontally and vertically. These overloads often lead to a "free man" emerging either between the lines of the opposition's defense and midfield or in wide areas where space has been created. This "free man" can then receive the ball and make a decisive action, whether it be a pass, a dribble, or a shot. The third man can always be considered the free man but the free man may not always be the third man. So finding the free man is one of the main objectives of positional play.