Bad News Thread

[Grace T.]

I didn't have any trouble making appointments. In fact, my MDs were calling me up to remind me that it was time for my next appointment. The only "panic" I witnessed at the medical centers was a mask and fever screening at the door.

o.k. not to doubt your personal experience, but the window we are talking about here is March-May. I'm frankly surprised your doctors offices were open as many of them in La Co were just plain shut until they could get telehealth up and running. But it raises an interesting possibility: doctors for older people were more open than> other specialists for adults > pediatricians. If true, that would be crazy ass backwards in terms of public health risk.

Still, I little hard to get through the temp screening when you are actually running a temp.

 

[Grace T.]

(Pssst Dad! The ignore feauture works great! Now only if It worked in real life...)

He'd be talking to himself, espola and Husker. Not sure even dad wants to do that.

 

[Desert Hound]

"MIT SCHOLARS REVIEW ANTI-MASK DISCUSSIONS AND CONCLUDE: “As science and technology studies (STS) scholars have shown, data is not a neutral substrate that can be used for good or for ill [14, 46, 84]. Indeed, anti-maskers often reveal themselves to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how scientific knowledge is socially constructed than their ideological adversaries, who espouse naive realism about the ‘objective’ truth of public health data.”

Plus: “Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution.”

Also: “As Tufekci demonstrates (and our data corroborates), the CDC’s initial public messaging that masks were ineffective—followed by a quick public reversal— seriously hindered the organization’s ability to effectively communicate as the pandemic progressed. As we have seen, people are not simply passive consumers of media: anti-mask users in particular were predisposed to digging through the scientific literature and highlighting the uncertainty in academic publications that media or- ganizations elide. When these uncertainties did not surface within public-facing versions of these studies, people began to assume that there was a broader cover-up [99].”

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.07993.pdf

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Had push come to shove I would have traded some small business restrictions if it meant schools were open 100% in September (with appropriate precautions). The fact that schools weren't reopen in September was criminal and may go down in history as the worse public policy decision ever. Of course, the major school districts and unions, which I consider to be evil, had a major hand in the closures. (I had kids in SDUSD for 9 years and I can personally attest to the corruption and incompetence of the District. It actually led to a situation that was ignored at our school for years that ultimately led to a federal investigation of multiple sexual abuse incidents at our school. Of course, the superintendent, Cindy Marten, that allowed this to happen and covered it up is now in the Biden administration.)

The biggest problem with team lockdown is they don't understand, or choose to ignore, the difference between epidemiological and medical opinion and actual evidence and real world results. The amount of scientific gaslighting that has occurred over the last year is astonishing. Don't believe what you see happened in Texas or Florida. Please wait for a statistician to exercise some math voodoo to tell you what really happened. Don't trust the obvious.

The pandemic proved that schools weren't doing a good job of educating the masses about how to think as opposed to the what to think curriculum that got us to the mindless compliance that we now see.

 

[Desert Hound]

The fact that schools weren't reopen in September was criminal and may go down in history as the worse public policy decision ever. Of course, the major school districts and unions, which I consider to be evil, had a major hand in the closures.

Absolutely. Kids got screwed.

 

[crush]

Absolutely. Kids got screwed.

Wait until the real news comes out Hound

 

[Grace T.]

"MIT SCHOLARS REVIEW ANTI-MASK DISCUSSIONS AND CONCLUDE: “As science and technology studies (STS) scholars have shown, data is not a neutral substrate that can be used for good or for ill [14, 46, 84]. Indeed, anti-maskers often reveal themselves to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how scientific knowledge is socially constructed than their ideological adversaries, who espouse naive realism about the ‘objective’ truth of public health data.”

Plus: “Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution.”

Also: “As Tufekci demonstrates (and our data corroborates), the CDC’s initial public messaging that masks were ineffective—followed by a quick public reversal— seriously hindered the organization’s ability to effectively communicate as the pandemic progressed. As we have seen, people are not simply passive consumers of media: anti-mask users in particular were predisposed to digging through the scientific literature and highlighting the uncertainty in academic publications that media or- ganizations elide. When these uncertainties did not surface within public-facing versions of these studies, people began to assume that there was a broader cover-up [99].”

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.07993.pdf

We see this dynamic here when dad4 always asks if you are in favor of an indoor mask mandate/vaccine why do you raise question re masks working/vaccines?

 

[espola]

o.k. not to doubt your personal experience, but the window we are talking about here is March-May. I'm frankly surprised your doctors offices were open as many of them in La Co were just plain shut until they could get telehealth up and running. But it raises an interesting possibility: doctors for older people were more open than> other specialists for adults > pediatricians. If true, that would be crazy ass backwards in terms of public health risk.

Still, I little hard to get through the temp screening when you are actually running a temp.

In the March to May time frame I had two doctor visits (GP and neurologist) and one blood drawing at the lab a week before the GP. The first time there was a car maze in the parking lot screening arrivals to filter us to the appropriate locations; the other times just a quick health check at the door. My wife had similar experiences at a different location of the same hospital chain.

And if we are comparing "credentials" -- within my extended family, I can count a GP, an anesthesiologist, a cancer surgeon, an optometrist, and a speech therapist. There were others since deceased -- GPs in New Jersey and California.

 

[Desert Hound]

We see this dynamic here when dad4 always asks if you are in favor of an indoor mask mandate/vaccine why do you raise question re masks working/vaccines?

See it all the time between he and I.

He likes to point out the study or the CDC says wear a mask. I read the literature and see that they say they don't know if they work.

 

[espola]

He'd be talking to himself, espola and Husker. Not sure even dad wants to do that.

He may be talking in my direction, but I'm not listening. The only time I take notice is when someone else quotes him.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

You don't have to use a "feature". You can just choose to ignore on your own.

My tackle box usually contains a lure that will hook you.

 

[espola]

He may be talking in my direction, but I'm not listening. The only time I take notice is when someone else quotes him.

After posting that, out of curiosity I did a quick review of his recent posts. He denies that an mRNA medication can be a vaccine, he doesn't know how to spell "viruses" in spite of it being in the news every day for the last year-plus, and apparently, he is very proud of a quartet of pictures he drew up (or, more likely, copied without attribution).

 

[espola]

In the March to May time frame I had two doctor visits (GP and neurologist) and one blood drawing at the lab a week before the GP. The first time there was a car maze in the parking lot screening arrivals to filter us to the appropriate locations; the other times just a quick health check at the door. My wife had similar experiences at a different location of the same hospital chain.

And if we are comparing "credentials" -- within my extended family, I can count a GP, an anesthesiologist, a cancer surgeon, an optometrist, and a speech therapist. There were others since deceased -- GPs in New Jersey and California.

I forgot the nurse/phlebotomist who gave a free cholesterol check the Monday after Thanksgiving.

 

[Grace T.]

In the March to May time frame I had two doctor visits (GP and neurologist) and one blood drawing at the lab a week before the GP. The first time there was a car maze in the parking lot screening arrivals to filter us to the appropriate locations; the other times just a quick health check at the door. My wife had similar experiences at a different location of the same hospital chain.

And if we are comparing "credentials" -- within my extended family, I can count a GP, an anesthesiologist, a cancer surgeon, an optometrist, and a speech therapist. There were others since deceased -- GPs in New Jersey and California.

Chief of medicine for a hospital, chief medical officer for a fortune 500 company, head of radiology, a hospital admin, an insurance company exec, 2 nurse practioners, chief of cardiac surgery, private practice allergist/immunologist & a gastroenterologist, pediatrician, pediatrician's assistant, anesthesiologist, a surgical resident, some of them retired.

 

[Grace T.]

Chief of medicine for a hospital, chief medical officer for a fortune 500 company, head of radiology, a hospital admin, an insurance company exec, 2 nurse practioners, chief of cardiac surgery, private practice allergist/immunologist & a gastroenterologist, pediatrician, pediatrician's assistant, anesthesiologist, a surgical resident, some of them retired.

We 3 siblings are the shame of our family for being the only ones to go into law (and all having attended the same law school). It causes no end to distress in the family that neither one of the grandkids shows an inclination for STEM, through granddad is happy at least one of them took up soccer.

 

[dad4]

See it all the time between he and I.

He likes to point out the study or the CDC says wear a mask. I read the literature and see that they say they don't know if they work.

That's because you ignore all the studies which disagree with you.

The MIT researchers you cite were quite clear that masks "eliminate" the respiratory cone pathway for aerosol transmission. Their word, not mine.

But somehow you never talk about that part of their research.....

 

[watfly]

That just shows that hospitals were different.

Do you have any evidence that it was because of lockdowns?

It could just be that, because CA is a more litigious state, CA medical offices took more drastic measures to limit covid exposure. Or the problem may have had more to do with general overreaction than with any state policy.

Blaming the stay at home order or color system is quite a stretch. I always assumed they were trying to limit covid exposure because of the problems NY had with medical facilities spreading covid.

Remember that the stay at home order was before we had good evidence on what kind of air filters do and do not help. That was back when hospitals were counting their negative pressure rooms, counting their covid patients, and not liking the result.

I know its a defense mechanism for you, but please stop speculating and/or just making shit up. This one is right up there with Utah has less Covid because they consume less alcohol. At least, Team Virus's speculation is typically within the realm of reasonableness and usually is backed up with some evidence.

"Delayed care has been widely reported during the COVID-19 pandemic, both for perceived serious medical issues and all types of medical care generally. Between March and August, our “Impact of Coronavirus on U.S. Households Survey” from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and National Public Radio found that 1 in 5 adults (20%) in the US reported their household members were unable to get or delayed getting medical care for serious problems. Among those reporting delayed care, more than half (57%) said they experienced negative health consequences as a result."

Delayed Care with Harmful Health Consequences—Reported Experiences from National Surveys During Coronavirus Disease 2019

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has created unprecedented challenges to providing medical care for patients with conditions other than COVID-19 in the US.1 While lack of health insurance and other cost-associated barriers have long been considered driving forces preventing...

jamanetwork.com

If these findings are even remotely correct, more adults had delayed care for serious health conditions (20%) than adults that had Covid infections (10% in SD) and around the same amount had negative health consequences due to delayed care as had been infected. Do you need any more evidence that the cure was worse than the disease? (There's plenty of other evidence but this alone should suffice).

 

[dad4]

See it all the time between he and I.

He likes to point out the study or the CDC says wear a mask. I read the literature and see that they say they don't know if they work.

From the grammar police-

Between him and me.

You were trying to sound highbrow and simply messed up the parts of speech.

You'll sound better if you don't put on airs.

 

[watfly]

I didn't have any trouble making appointments. In fact, my MDs were calling me up to remind me that it was time for my next appointment. The only "panic" I witnessed at the medical centers was a mask and fever screening at the door.

This pretty much sums up the mentality of the lock downers. Don't worry about delayed medical care for a serious illness because you only have a 2 in 5 chance of that happening, but really worry about a Covid infection because you have a 1 in 5 chance of that happening.

 

[dad4]

I know its a defense mechanism for you, but please stop speculating and/or just making shit up. This one is right up there with Utah has less Covid because they consume less alcohol. At least, Team Virus's speculation is typically within the realm of reasonableness and usually is backed up with some evidence.

"Delayed care has been widely reported during the COVID-19 pandemic, both for perceived serious medical issues and all types of medical care generally. Between March and August, our “Impact of Coronavirus on U.S. Households Survey” from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and National Public Radio found that 1 in 5 adults (20%) in the US reported their household members were unable to get or delayed getting medical care for serious problems. Among those reporting delayed care, more than half (57%) said they experienced negative health consequences as a result."

Delayed Care with Harmful Health Consequences—Reported Experiences from National Surveys During Coronavirus Disease 2019

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has created unprecedented challenges to providing medical care for patients with conditions other than COVID-19 in the US.1 While lack of health insurance and other cost-associated barriers have long been considered driving forces preventing...

jamanetwork.com

If these findings are even remotely correct, more adults had delayed care for serious health conditions (20%) than adults that had Covid infections (10% in SD) and around the same amount had negative health consequences due to delayed care as had been infected. Do you need any more evidence that the cure was worse than the disease? (There's plenty of other evidence but this alone should suffice).

Where in that article does it blame lockdowns?

It doesn't.

I'm not saying there is/was no problem with delayed care.

I am saying that delayed care has absolutely nothing to do with the lockdowns.

Do you have any evidence at all that school/bar/restaurant/church closures were responsible for delayed care at hospitals?

If no, then stop accusing others of "making shit up".

 

[espola]

Chief of medicine for a hospital, chief medical officer for a fortune 500 company, head of radiology, a hospital admin, an insurance company exec, 2 nurse practioners, chief of cardiac surgery, private practice allergist/immunologist & a gastroenterologist, pediatrician, pediatrician's assistant, anesthesiologist, a surgical resident, some of them retired.

One of my favorite stories about retired doctors is the father of a kid who played for one of the high school teams my son coached. He was an orthopedic surgeon who developed carpal tunnel syndrome, making it difficult for him to perform his work. He underwent orthopedic surgery himself to correct the problem, but the operation left him less capable than he was before, ending his career. A quiet financial settlement and disability insurance payments allowed him to retire early.