Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
Where in that article does it blame lockdowns?

It doesn't.

I'm not saying there is/was no problem with delayed care.

I am saying that delayed care has absolutely nothing to do with the lockdowns.

Do you have any evidence at all that school/bar/restaurant/church closures were responsible for delayed care at hospitals?

If no, then stop accusing others of "making shit up".
Click to expand...
You're classic. You can't provide any evidence of your own, only try to poke holes in the evidence from others.

Still waiting for your evidence to support Utah's fewer Covid deaths due to lower consumption of alcohol. If that's not the poster child for "making shit up" I don't know what is.
 
watfly said:
This pretty much sums up the mentality of the lock downers. Don't worry about delayed medical care for a serious illness because you only have a 2 in 5 chance of that happening, but really worry about a Covid infection because you have a 1 in 5 chance of that happening.
Click to expand...

I have a serious illness (if I stop taking my twice-a-day medication I will die in a few weeks in misery) and a not-so-serious illness that just makes life more difficult. I haven't had to forego or delay treatment for either of them.

I have no idea where you got those numbers from.
 
espola said:
I have a serious illness (if I stop taking my twice-a-day medication I will die in a few weeks in misery) and a not-so-serious illness that just makes life more difficult. I haven't had to forego or delay treatment for either of them.

I have no idea where you got those numbers from.
Click to expand...
I'm thankful that you were able to be taken care of, others weren't so fortunate. No one should have to forego medical treatment due to restrictions in place because of a response to Covid.
 
watfly said:
I'm thankful that you were able to be taken care of, others weren't so fortunate. No one should have to forego medical treatment due to restrictions in place because of a response to Covid.
Click to expand...

I guess my family has been lucky. None of us who are in continuing care for one issue or another have seen any real interruption, just more care taken at the medical offices to limit covid transmission. One close relative developed a nasty infection out of the blue and his care (as described by him at a distance) seems to be first-class.
 
espola said:
After posting that, out of curiosity I did a quick review of his recent posts. He denies that an mRNA medication can be a vaccine, he doesn't know how to spell "viruses" in spite of it being in the news every day for the last year-plus, and apparently, he is very proud of a quartet of pictures he drew up (or, more likely, copied without attribution).
Click to expand...
Have a Coke and a smile.
 
Looks like ivermectin works. If world had prioritized repurposing of meds, they would have had enough to reduce deaths on the current wave in India.

More interesting the side effect of lockdowns and lack of border control. India reimposed lockdowns. Caused a lot of Nepalese workers to lose their jobs and head home. Created an outbreak in Nepal. Nepal's capital Kathmandu went into lockdown. Caused wage workers to go home to their villages. Spread the illness throughout Nepal.

 
watfly said:
You're classic. You can't provide any evidence of your own, only try to poke holes in the evidence from others.

Still waiting for your evidence to support Utah's fewer Covid deaths due to lower consumption of alcohol. If that's not the poster child for "making shit up" I don't know what is.
Click to expand...
What evidence? You haven’t provided a shred of evidence linking general population lockdowns to delayed meducal care.

I at least provided evidence that Utah has fewer bars and lower alcohol consumption. That seems reasonable support for a claim that Utah residents spend less time in bars than residents of other states.

You provided nothing to substantiate your claim. You link the delayed medical care to “restrictions”, but that is nonsense. The vast majority of restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with medical care.

If you mean, “get rid of the medical restrictions”, then please explain how we could have done that last April without spreading covid at medical facilities and infecting our doctors and nurses.
 
dad4 said:
What evidence? You haven’t provided a shred of evidence linking general population lockdowns to delayed meducal care.
Click to expand...
Apparently you don't look up from your models too often.

There has been a ton of reporting on this issue. A quick search pulls this up on page one of google.com

People scared to go out because they were told not to go out (lockdowns). State govs telling hospitals not do do elective type work, and so on.


More Than One-Third of U.S. Adults Delayed or Skipped ...
www.healthleadersmedia.com › nursing › more-one-thi...



www.verywellhealth.com

The Repercussions of Missed Cancer Screenings

When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, people got behind on cancer screenings. Two years later, the numbers still haven't recovered.
www.verywellhealth.com www.verywellhealth.com


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Collateral damage of COVID-19 pandemic: Delayed medical care - PubMed

During the COVID-19 pandemic, emergency room visits have drastically decreased for non-COVID conditions such as appendicitis, heart attack, and stroke. Patients may be avoiding seeking medical attention for fear of catching the deadly condition or as an unintended consequence of stay-at-home...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.npr.org

About 1 In 5 Households In U.S. Cities Miss Needed Medical Care During Pandemic

Some people have skipped care because of finances or fear of the virus, doctors say. Others find medical practices closed to new patients. Many are suffering health consequences, an NPR poll finds.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

And so on.
 
Desert Hound said:
Apparently you don't look up from your models too often.

There has been a ton of reporting on this issue. A quick search pulls this up on page one of google.com

People scared to go out because they were told not to go out (lockdowns). State govs telling hospitals not do do elective type work, and so on.


More Than One-Third of U.S. Adults Delayed or Skipped ...
www.healthleadersmedia.com › nursing › more-one-thi...



www.verywellhealth.com

The Repercussions of Missed Cancer Screenings

When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, people got behind on cancer screenings. Two years later, the numbers still haven't recovered.
www.verywellhealth.com www.verywellhealth.com


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Collateral damage of COVID-19 pandemic: Delayed medical care - PubMed

During the COVID-19 pandemic, emergency room visits have drastically decreased for non-COVID conditions such as appendicitis, heart attack, and stroke. Patients may be avoiding seeking medical attention for fear of catching the deadly condition or as an unintended consequence of stay-at-home...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.npr.org

About 1 In 5 Households In U.S. Cities Miss Needed Medical Care During Pandemic

Some people have skipped care because of finances or fear of the virus, doctors say. Others find medical practices closed to new patients. Many are suffering health consequences, an NPR poll finds.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

And so on.
Click to expand...
The argument apparently surrounds whether the delayed medical care was due to lockdowns (as watfly maintains) or due just to people freaking out and refusing to get medical care and/or doctors refusing to provide medical care and putting up a bunch of restrictions (as dad4 maintains).

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. I'm sure (and I know of 1 person) that delayed medical treatments, for example a heart attack, because they did not want to go to an emergency room filled with COVID. Europe responded to this in many countries by dividing up COVID and non COVID entrances. The US by large contrast just prioritized COVID, in part because of the situation in New York which was because of the media hysterics transplanted to a lot of other areas. Also neglected is the role state health advice, county health advice and medical association advice played in the way doctor's altered their practices....most of the advice of which was temperature checks and restrict to remote practice where possible, which my own case illustrates how it creates an obstacle, particularly if the person seeking care has a temperature for reasons other than COVID and at the time COVID tests were not easily available. There's also the plain fact that the lockdowns (not to mention the media panic drumbeat) fed the panic and made people judge that being exposed to COVID in the hospital was probably worse than dealing with their heartattacks. But the simple fact remains that Utah did it very differently than California (I had no problems getting care in Utah whereas here it was a maze of restrictions so something is very different in Utah v. California), or if dad prefers, Europe did it very different.
 
dad4 said:
What evidence? You haven’t provided a shred of evidence linking general population lockdowns to delayed meducal care.

I at least provided evidence that Utah has fewer bars and lower alcohol consumption. That seems reasonable support for a claim that Utah residents spend less time in bars than residents of other states.

You provided nothing to substantiate your claim. You link the delayed medical care to “restrictions”, but that is nonsense. The vast majority of restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with medical care.

If you mean, “get rid of the medical restrictions”, then please explain how we could have done that last April without spreading covid at medical facilities and infecting our doctors and nurses.
Click to expand...

At this point, the only reason why I come to this thread is to see whether you are still active and responding to these people.

There is something reassuring about you consistently maintaining composure and an even tone despite the constant trolling, personal insults, and half-baked arguments.

It's almost like, "Gee, maybe there's hope for Western Civilization after all if dad4 can keep at it in that OT snakepit."
 
Yours in futbol said:
At this point, the only reason why I come to this thread is to see whether you are still active and responding to these people.

There is something reassuring about you consistently maintaining composure and an even tone despite the constant trolling, personal insults, and half-baked arguments.

It's almost like, "Gee, maybe there's hope for Western Civilization after all if dad4 can keep at it in that OT snakepit."
Click to expand...

"consistently maintaining composure and even tone"....that one is funny.....tribalism is a strange thing.
 
dad4 said:
What evidence? You haven’t provided a shred of evidence linking general population lockdowns to delayed meducal care.

I at least provided evidence that Utah has fewer bars and lower alcohol consumption. That seems reasonable support for a claim that Utah residents spend less time in bars than residents of other states.

You provided nothing to substantiate your claim. You link the delayed medical care to “restrictions”, but that is nonsense. The vast majority of restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with medical care.

If you mean, “get rid of the medical restrictions”, then please explain how we could have done that last April without spreading covid at medical facilities and infecting our doctors and nurses.
Click to expand...
Covid didn't create the interruption to medical care. The response to Covid, aka the restrictions, the lockdown, call it whatever you want caused the interruption which was a fear based overreaction. Obviously, I have the benefit of hindsight to prove that point, but it was seriously questioned at the time. (Go back and check my posts, I had a graphic that explained the potential ramifications of these restrictions which have now come true). This is not a hard concept to understand, I don't know if you're just dense, or intentionally being dense because it doesn't fit your narrative.

The only time you could make a plausible argument that Covid caused a delay in medical care and not the restrictions themselves, would have been a couple weeks during the winter spike where some hospitals were overwhelmed. However, I believe most of the interruptions to care took place in Spring and Summer 2020. By Fall non-Covid medical care had opened up significantly.
 
Desert Hound said:
Apparently you don't look up from your models too often.

There has been a ton of reporting on this issue. A quick search pulls this up on page one of google.com

People scared to go out because they were told not to go out (lockdowns). State govs telling hospitals not do do elective type work, and so on.


More Than One-Third of U.S. Adults Delayed or Skipped ...
www.healthleadersmedia.com › nursing › more-one-thi...



www.verywellhealth.com

The Repercussions of Missed Cancer Screenings

When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, people got behind on cancer screenings. Two years later, the numbers still haven't recovered.
www.verywellhealth.com www.verywellhealth.com


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Collateral damage of COVID-19 pandemic: Delayed medical care - PubMed

During the COVID-19 pandemic, emergency room visits have drastically decreased for non-COVID conditions such as appendicitis, heart attack, and stroke. Patients may be avoiding seeking medical attention for fear of catching the deadly condition or as an unintended consequence of stay-at-home...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.npr.org

About 1 In 5 Households In U.S. Cities Miss Needed Medical Care During Pandemic

Some people have skipped care because of finances or fear of the virus, doctors say. Others find medical practices closed to new patients. Many are suffering health consequences, an NPR poll finds.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

And so on.
Click to expand...
I had forgotten about the prohibition on elective surgeries. Just FYI, elective surgeries are not just facelifts and boob jobs. Elective surgeries for the most parent are anything other than emergency surgery. Elective surgeries includes surgeries to relieve or fix some very serious, debilitating and/or life threatening conditions.
 
One more reason our state is F'ed up in regards to Covid.

So my daughter, a junior, was scheduled to take the SAT in 3 weeks and has been studying diligently. They just cancelled it today because of Covid. So now she either has to go to Arizona to take it, or wait until August to take it, giving her only one shot at the exam and hope it isn't cancelled again.

This year's California seniors had no opportunity to take the ACT or the SAT last year. While many schools have gone test optional or test blind for admissions that is not the case for merit money. We know a few families that can't afford the out of state school of their choice because they didn't have test scores. Compounding the problem is that more in-state students have then been applying to UC schools because of the pandemic, but unless you have a unique sob story, or check all of the woke identity boxes you aren't getting in. The UC schools prefer out of state students because of the higher tuition.
 
"There are now more connections emerging from the Wuhan Institute that should be explored further. These connections involve the United States government, the National Institutes of Health and Dr Anthony Fauci -- and he should have to explain them before Congress.

These questions could of course pose complications to the mainstream media storyline that Fauci is a great hero, a man lionized, even fetishized by the political left for being the antithesis to then-president Donald Trump. If the NIH and Anthony Fauci played any role in financing or assisting the Wuhan Institute, including outsourcing the study of BSL-4 novel coronaviruses, the good doctor should have to answer for it.

To boil things down: the United States was outsourcing the study of novel coronaviruses to a group called EcoHealth Alliance, a group which according to NPR was doing the bulk of collection of coronavirus samples from bats and transferring those samples and research to the Wuhan Institute.

The original grant money provided to EcoHealth was $3.7 million, $76,000 of which was slated for the Wuhan Institute. This funding was approved with the backing of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the agency that Anthony Fauci heads, according to Newsweek.

That contract was canceled in April 2020. Those grants were approved by the National Institute of Health. According to a blockbuster piece in New York magazine, one of the first outlets to take the lab leak hypothesis seriously, EcoHealth Alliance 'has channeled money from the National Institutes of Health to Shi Zhengli's laboratory in Wuhan, allowing the lab to carry on recombinant research into diseases of bats and humans'."

spectator.us

Fauci must answer for his role in Wuhan’s COVID lab

If the NIH and Anthony Fauci played any role in financing or assisting the Wuhan Institute, the good doctor should have to answer for it
spectator.us spectator.us
 
watfly said:
One more reason our state is F'ed up in regards to Covid.

So my daughter, a junior, was scheduled to take the SAT in 3 weeks and has been studying diligently. They just cancelled it today because of Covid. So now she either has to go to Arizona to take it, or wait until August to take it, giving her only one shot at the exam and hope it isn't cancelled again.

This year's California seniors had no opportunity to take the ACT or the SAT last year. While many schools have gone test optional or test blind for admissions that is not the case for merit money. We know a few families that can't afford the out of state school of their choice because they didn't have test scores. Compounding the problem is that more in-state students have then been applying to UC schools because of the pandemic, but unless you have a unique sob story, or check all of the woke identity boxes you aren't getting in. The UC schools prefer out of state students because of the higher tuition.
Click to expand...
That would make me very grumpy. You need to take her out of state to take that test in case you need another run at it OR as you state to avoid the risk of the idiots in charge cancelling the Aug test.

Terrible.
 
Desert Hound said:
@Grace T.

A follow on to a link you posted last week.

mtracey.substack.com

As New Evidence Emerges For COVID "Lab-Leak" Theory, Journalists Who Screamed “Conspiracy” Humiliate Themselves

Over and over again early last year, as the COVID pandemic was ramping up but hadn’t yet reached the US in earnest, journalists working at prominent national publications claimed to have conclusive knowledge about the origins of the virus. It was trafficking in a “conspiracy theory” that had...
mtracey.substack.com mtracey.substack.com
Click to expand...
The real interesting thing is the funding fingers are now being pointed at fauci. I couldn’t follow though the rand Paul exchange to it so I’m not sure what the basis of Faucis denial of it is or Paul’s evidence to support.
 
Grace T. said:
Looks like ivermectin works. If world had prioritized repurposing of meds, they would have had enough to reduce deaths on the current wave in India.

More interesting the side effect of lockdowns and lack of border control. India reimposed lockdowns. Caused a lot of Nepalese workers to lose their jobs and head home. Created an outbreak in Nepal. Nepal's capital Kathmandu went into lockdown. Caused wage workers to go home to their villages. Spread the illness throughout Nepal.

Click to expand...

In the AIIMS study cited, the results looked promising -- 2% of those treated with a prophylactic dose were later confirmed to be infected by PCR analysis as opposed to 11% of those untreated. The participants were divided into 2 groups by self-selection and testing was done only on those who reported symptoms. Not exactly a proper research project, but it suggests that there might be some value to testing it.

Things like this --

jamanetwork.com

Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19

This randomized trial compares the effects of ivermectin vs placebo on time to symptom resolution within 21 days among patients with mild COVID-19.
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19, although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes.
 
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