Time to Play

Keepermom2 said:
IT IS ABOUT CAPACITY THAT WILL CAUSE SHUT DOWN!!!!!!
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I UNDERSTAND THAT!!!! Who are the people filling these ICU beds that have COVID? If its elderly people in nursing homes, elderly people with underlying conditions, then the mitigations should be quarantining them and wearing masks and social distancing when they have visitors. NOTHING TO DO WITH KIDS PLAYING SOCCER. THEY ARE NOT THE ONES IN ICU BEDS!!!! Writing in CAPs is fun huh?
 
MicPaPa said:
Then isolate your Dad and your family if you choose...I choose not to put family lives in the hands of "idiot" government officials who were silent or encouraged millions of "idiots" too proud to wear a mask in the streets for weeks on end.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you had nothing to say about your Dad during the protest discussions you participated in, right?
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I have too much to say already. Don't curse me for the one time I had enough sense to hold my tongue.
 
Keepermom2 said:
Herd immunity....How well did that theory work out for Sweden?
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www.telegraph.co.uk

Coronavirus: Norway wonders if it should have been more like Sweden

Cost of lockdown sees prime minister raise questions about strategy
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

And from another article:
"Public health officials in Norway and Denmark have come to agree with Sweden’s open-door approach to schools, saying it may not have been necessary to close them for children under age 14 because of limited evidence that they contribute to the spread of the coronavirus. "
 
Keepermom2 said:
It isn't about the kids dying...it is about the fact that they are or will become carriers that are asymptomatic. The capacity in hospitals will be what causes us to move to various levels of shut down. So even if you don't care about the 17% of the population that are greater than 65 years old or the 4% of the population that are immune compromised, there will still be an impact on society from a young asymptomatic person that is infected with COVID-19.
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You do understand that they (WHO) is still not convinced that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus. Their last statement went from “very rare” to “undetermined” because of the political backlash.


Can you give us a % of the population that are suffering from depression, anxiety and other mental conditions due to the extended shut down? What about them? Do they not matter?

what are families going to do this fall if kids need to learn from home while parents have to back to work in order to pay the bills?

Yes, I have had family members and friends catch the virus. So my viewpoint is not one of someone who hasn’t seen the impact that this virus has on people. The most severely affected was on a ventilator and is doing just fine today. All others never needed more than home, self care.

Anyone ever wonder why we don’t hear more about ways and benefits to build up your immune system and how immunologists have proven the effects of Vitamin D on the impact of the

Do you know why there are still so many hospitals and care centers that don’t have enough PPE for their staff? A little insight, they are broke, no $! Nobody wants to be near a hospital and elective surgeries (the money makers) have been avoided by patients at all costs.

One stat we are likely never going to see is the number of Covid deaths attributed to “medical malpractice”! People improperly ventilated, incorrect dosages of treatments, complete misdiagnosis, etc. you can try to deny it, but the facts are out there.
 
In the end we need to start playing soccer and doing other activities.

School for instance. In AZ one of the school districts is offering classes in person 1 day a week this coming year and the rest online. This for the group of people least affected? How do you think schedule works with getting an actual education.


Since most people have very little risk...and we don't know if there is going to be a vaccine or how long one will take. What exactly are we going to do?

Shut down or severely limit biz/schools/sports indefinitely?

Because essentially that is what a lot of people are saying.

If someone is in a high risk group and doesn't want to mingle don't. If you live with a high risk individual...make your own call as to what you want to do.


We cannot be shutting down teams, biz, schools(or certain classes) every time someone tests positive. We do that and we will be stuck in limbo essentially.
 
Kicker4Life said:
You do understand that they (WHO) is still not convinced that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus. Their last statement went from “very rare” to “undetermined” because of the political backlash.


Can you give us a % of the population that are suffering from depression, anxiety and other mental conditions due to the extended shut down? What about them? Do they not matter?

what are families going to do this fall if kids need to learn from home while parents have to back to work in order to pay the bills?

Yes, I have had family members and friends catch the virus. So my viewpoint is not one of someone who hasn’t seen the impact that this virus has on people. The most severely affected was on a ventilator and is doing just fine today. All others never needed more than home, self care.

Anyone ever wonder why we don’t hear more about ways and benefits to build up your immune system and how immunologists have proven the effects of Vitamin D on the impact of the

Do you know why there are still so many hospitals and care centers that don’t have enough PPE for their staff? A little insight, they are broke, no $! Nobody wants to be near a hospital and elective surgeries (the money makers) have been avoided by patients at all costs.

One stat we are likely never going to see is the number of Covid deaths attributed to “medical malpractice”! People improperly ventilated, incorrect dosages of treatments, complete misdiagnosis, etc. you can try to deny it, but the facts are out there.
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Spot on, well done.
 
To those who are saying that cases are up, but hospitalizations, ICU capacity and deaths are flat, don't forget there is a two to three week lag between cases and hospitalizations. Keep your eye on the numbers over the next few weeks.

To those who are arguing that the government shouldn't tell them what to do, they have their freedom to choose, unfortunately some people aren't educated or intelligent enough to make wise choices. That's why the government needs to step in
 
gkmom said:
To those who are saying that cases are up, but hospitalizations, ICU capacity and deaths are flat, don't forget there is a two to three week lag between cases and hospitalizations. Keep your eye on the numbers over the next few weeks.

To those who are arguing that the government shouldn't tell them what to do, they have their freedom to choose, unfortunately some people aren't educated or intelligent enough to make wise choices. That's why the government needs to step in
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ok, but if the concern is about the capacity of ICU beds, the targeted approach should be the group that uses them. Mitigate the risks of the demographic filling those beds. locking down events that have nothing to do with that demographic is counter productive and unnecessary. I'm not just talking soccer games, but schools and work places. If you are part of the ICU demographic, stay home, wear a mask and have everyone around you wear a mask. That should prevent increased numbers without being detrimental to the rest of society. Stay away from soccer fields. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
 
MSK357 said:
ok, but if the concern is about the capacity of ICU beds, the targeted approach should be the group that uses them. Mitigate the risks of the demographic filling those beds. locking down events that have nothing to do with that demographic is counter productive and unnecessary. I'm not just talking soccer games, but schools and work places. If you are part of the ICU demographic, stay home, wear a mask and have everyone around you wear a mask. That should prevent increased numbers without being detrimental to the rest of society. Stay away from soccer fields. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
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Fair point
 
gkmom said:
To those who are arguing that the government shouldn't tell them what to do, they have their freedom to choose, unfortunately some people aren't educated or intelligent enough to make wise choices. That's why the government needs to step in
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The problem with this line of thinking is that if that's true, then not everyone is qualified to vote for our leaders...it undermines the very notion of democracy. If people aren't educated enough or intelligent enough, they shouldn't be voting for who holds the key to the nuclear button.

Yes, we can argue masks and vaccines are necessary (and if anyone doesn't think after all this the government isn't going to make the coronavaccine mandatory, you are kidding yourself) because those choices impose a risk of death on everyone else. But if true, that argument has to be fairly applied and rationally based if you are going to overrule individual choice. There is nothing rationally based about the idea of preventing kids from going to school or soccer....it's been shown conclusively kids are far less vulnerable to this than flu and are also put in danger by car ride, and they suspect the risk of exposure to adults isn't as severe adult-adult or adult-child. It's also not fairly applied because other more hazardous activities are being allowed to go forward like mass protests, political rallies, gyms or even movie theatres with airconditioning and people using the eating exception to avoid wearing masks. Given that, the only fair thing to do is to defer to individual parent choice.
 
Keepermom2 said:
It isn't about the kids dying...it is about the fact that they are or will become carriers that are asymptomatic. The capacity in hospitals will be what causes us to move to various levels of shut down. So even if you don't care about the 17% of the population that are greater than 65 years old or the 4% of the population that are immune compromised, there will still be an impact on society from a young asymptomatic person that is infected with COVID-19.
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Q. I'm serious confused dad here and my head is about to spin off. My question is this. What is more dangerous, going to the beach all day being around thousands or being at a soccer field for one hour with 11 players sharing 50% of the field or 25% of the field? With your mind set Keeper mom, we should all go home and come out after Feb next year. If kids can;t play some soccer by themselves and the coach and a few refs, then God help us and we should all go inside our dwellings and wait this soccer out. It's too dangerous.
 
MSK357 said:
ok, but if the concern is about the capacity of ICU beds, the targeted approach should be the group that uses them. Mitigate the risks of the demographic filling those beds. locking down events that have nothing to do with that demographic is counter productive and unnecessary. I'm not just talking soccer games, but schools and work places. If you are part of the ICU demographic, stay home, wear a mask and have everyone around you wear a mask. That should prevent increased numbers without being detrimental to the rest of society. Stay away from soccer fields. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
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Bingo.

Target the groups that are at risk. The shotgun approach of shutting or hampering everyone is not the appropriate approach.
 
MSK357 said:
Right, so if we keep our asymptomatic kids away from the immune compromised and the elderly with underlying conditions, whats the big deal? like i said. I dont plan on hanging out with people over 65+ in poor health. I'll wear the mask in public places indoors. Those at risk should do their best to stay away from the rest of us as well and wear masks. The more people that are healthy and have very low risk of developing symptoms should be free to be around each other, go to school, work, play sports. At this point that is the best way of developing an immunity leading to herd immunity. I dont plan on coughing in anyones face after a watching my kids play soccer if that's what you are afraid of.
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My wife's parents are well into their 70s. It pains us deeply not to see them. We have not been to their house since New Years. Grandpa has early dementia. Mom was a nurse and no one wants to go see the Dr or the ER right now and she wont take him either. Too dangerous for the elderly to go the hospital. How sad is that. Scary stuff folks.
 
T
Ellejustus said:
Q. I'm serious confused dad here and my head is about to spin off. My question is this. What is more dangerous, going to the beach all day being around thousands or being at a soccer field for one hour with 11 players sharing 50% of the field or 25% of the field? With your mind set Keeper mom, we should all go home and come out after Feb next year. If kids can;t play some soccer by themselves and the coach and a few refs, then God help us and we should all go inside our dwellings and wait this soccer out. It's too dangerous.
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During this week’s covid update on TV, I heard them say that 1 out of every 400 has covid or asymptotic. Basically they said if you go out to stores, parks, restaurants on any given day, you will probably be around a person that could pass it on to you. Basically we shouldn’t be afraid of getting covid. We should be afraid if you or your family member is in the at risk group.
 
Grace T. said:
The problem with this line of thinking is that if that's true, then not everyone is qualified to vote for our leaders...it undermines the very notion of democracy. If people aren't educated enough or intelligent enough, they shouldn't be voting for who holds the key to the nuclear button.

Yes, we can argue masks and vaccines are necessary (and if anyone doesn't think after all this the government isn't going to make the coronavaccine mandatory, you are kidding yourself) because those choices impose a risk of death on everyone else. But if true, that argument has to be fairly applied and rationally based if you are going to overrule individual choice. There is nothing rationally based about the idea of preventing kids from going to school or soccer....it's been shown conclusively kids are far less vulnerable to this than flu and are also put in danger by car ride, and they suspect the risk of exposure to adults isn't as severe adult-adult or adult-child. It's also not fairly applied because other more hazardous activities are being allowed to go forward like mass protests, political rallies, gyms or even movie theatres with airconditioning and people using the eating exception to avoid wearing masks. Given that, the only fair thing to do is to defer to individual parent choice.
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I agree that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense why some things are open,
Grace T. said:
The problem with this line of thinking is that if that's true, then not everyone is qualified to vote for our leaders...it undermines the very notion of democracy. If people aren't educated enough or intelligent enough, they shouldn't be voting for who holds the key to the nuclear button.

Yes, we can argue masks and vaccines are necessary (and if anyone doesn't think after all this the government isn't going to make the coronavaccine mandatory, you are kidding yourself) because those choices impose a risk of death on everyone else. But if true, that argument has to be fairly applied and rationally based if you are going to overrule individual choice. There is nothing rationally based about the idea of preventing kids from going to school or soccer....it's been shown conclusively kids are far less vulnerable to this than flu and are also put in danger by car ride, and they suspect the risk of exposure to adults isn't as severe adult-adult or adult-child. It's also not fairly applied because other more hazardous activities are being allowed to go forward like mass protests, political rallies, gyms or even movie theatres with airconditioning and people using the eating exception to avoid wearing masks. Given that, the only fair thing to do is to defer to individual parent choice.
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I agree that it doesn't make sense why some things are open and others are not.
I would however not compare mask, social distancing, and other mandates during a pandemic to the freedom to vote. I would align it more with seat belt laws, speed limits or vaccination requirements.There's a reason we have certain laws
 
Desert Hound said:
In the end we need to start playing soccer and doing other activities.

School for instance. In AZ one of the school districts is offering classes in person 1 day a week this coming year and the rest online. This for the group of people least affected? How do you think schedule works with getting an actual education.


Since most people have very little risk...and we don't know if there is going to be a vaccine or how long one will take. What exactly are we going to do?

Shut down or severely limit biz/schools/sports indefinitely?

Because essentially that is what a lot of people are saying.

If someone is in a high risk group and doesn't want to mingle don't. If you live with a high risk individual...make your own call as to what you want to do.


We cannot be shutting down teams, biz, schools(or certain classes) every time someone tests positive. We do that and we will be stuck in limbo essentially.
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I agree with a lot of this, but take the schools example; while the kids are, as you rightly say, low to no risk, those teaching them, supporting the teachers and ensuring the school is even open are likely not all in that same band. Kids are prolific spreaders of everything, every year - school starts one illness after another spreads. We all accept this. Most of the "blame" is parents who don't follow simple protocols like keeping a kid with a temp off for 24 hours fever free etc. But, you know, freedom to not give a f-ck about everyone else is strong in some people - we see it every year.

Maybe government realizes that there are more than enough freedom (not give a f-ck about everyone else) people out there, given that they display it all the time, to think they need to take charge and lead.

To me, we need to get the economy going, businesses open, schools open and back to some type of normal. If that means masks when in public, social distancing as much as possible, hand washing, hand sanitizer and so on, then I'm good with that. I'm not really happy about it, but I'm good with it. I don't live with or (closely) interact with any high risk people, but I'll still play - society is a team sport after all.

If the kids can play soccer too, then I'm good with that. If they can't for a few months or if playing jeopardizes the economy, business, schools etc. or could lead to another shutdown, then shut soccer down. It would suck, I'd hate it, but it ain't that important relatively speaking.
 
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