Vaccine

crush said:
Krispy Kreme is upping the doughnut ante in its COVID-19 vaccine push, doubling the number of free sweet treats that vaccinated customers can receive if they jabbed. Vaccinated patrons can get an original glazed, along with a heart-shaped doughnut, as part of the company's "Show Your Heart," which runs from Monday to Sept. 5.


View attachment 11529
Click to expand...
So the post above this one of the woke pro-vaxxer frequents KK?
 
what-happened said:
No. But plenty of evidence on evidence on what masking does to kids. Do you have small kids with learning disabilities by chance?
Click to expand...

No, please explain.

If there was even a single death or severe illness/hospitalization caused by wearing a mask, I'd consider that a compelling argument against masks in schools in and of itself. Which is why I was asking.

But please do explain what masking does to kids, and if you have time, identify the studies. I'm curious what is driving this anti-mask fervor other than a vague assertion of personal freedom.
 
Yours in futbol said:
I'd consider that a compelling argument against masks
Click to expand...
You still haven't answered. What is the compelling argument for wearing masks in schools.

Start with this number 72 million people under that age of 17. 350 deaths.

Make a logical argument in light of those numbers for mandating this group wear masks in schools.

After all those that advocate a solution, need to explain why the solution is justified in the first place.
 
Grace T. said:
I would have said for the prime you were correct about that. It is why I was o.k. with a cloth mask indoor mandate at first. For the Delta, we are seeing that's just not the case. The viral loads are high enough that a 10% reduction in particles, 50% reduction through cloth masks directly, redirection of the plum in a not well ventilated area just isn't going to do it. You are going to get enough to get sick. If you really want masks as a solution, you've got to get in line with Europe which has said these things aren't very much help.

As for half of transmission events, errr people aren't wearing them close talking with their friends outdoors, people aren't wearing them at home with ill relatives, people aren't wearing them when they go over to their friends houses, and they aren't doing a whole lot of good taking them off when you sit down at a table to eat.

The discussion should be centered on either high quality mask mandates in certain situations (such as for example airplanes and buses) or we don't do them because they aren't working as well anymore and the benefit we are getting for cost is miniscule. Like I said in my anecdote, that little girl walking into the outdoor restaurant tent, wearing a mask with gapping holes on the side larger than 3cm, isn't helping her or anyone else in the restaurant and certainly isn't helping anyone around her in the classroom. Theater.
Click to expand...

Where do you see any evidence that masks are less effective at reducing delta transmission?

You keep making that assertion. Do you have anything at all to back it up?
 
dad4 said:
Where do you see any evidence that masks are less effective at reducing delta transmission?

You keep making that assertion. Do you have anything at all to back it up?
Click to expand...
Why don't you start with the article she posted last week that went through the major studies on mask effectiveness. You know...the one you studiously ignored.
 
dad4 said:
Where do you see any evidence that masks are less effective at reducing delta transmission?

You keep making that assertion. Do you have anything at all to back it up?
Click to expand...

a. the higher viral loads involved in the Delta
b. your own argument that Asia had contained it because the masks, and now look, they haven't with the Delta.
c. Put together with the waterloo study.

I can't believe you are at that the Delta is the same as Prime to justify your mask beliefs? That's pretty jaw dropping.
 
Yours in futbol said:
No, please explain.

If there was even a single death or severe illness/hospitalization caused by wearing a mask, I'd consider that a compelling argument against masks in schools in and of itself. Which is why I was asking.

But please do explain what masking does to kids, and if you have time, identify the studies. I'm curious what is driving this anti-mask fervor other than a vague assertion of personal freedom.
Click to expand...

You appear to have some semblance of intellect. You know exactly the argument for not masking kids, especially younger children. Our Euro counterparts appear to 100% disagree with masking for children, especially those under the age of 13. Pick a country, Sweden (that should get you fired up), Ireland, Denmark, England, Iceland, many more. They are not interested in masking children. The CDC and the ECDC have differing views on potential outcomes for younger children.
 
Desert Hound said:
You still haven't answered. What is the compelling argument for wearing masks in schools.

Start with this number 72 million people under that age of 17. 350 deaths.

Make a logical argument in light of those numbers for mandating this group wear masks in schools.

After all those that advocate a solution, need to explain why the solution is justified in the first place.
Click to expand...


I don't have a compelling argument for masks that hasn't already been made by dad4. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

(And honestly, I don't see the point to arguing with you guys. It's easier to just put people like Grace T on ignore.)

All I am looking for is a clear, specific explanation of the harmful effects that masks have on kids and supporting studies/information, if someone would like to take the time to provide it. If there are no known harmful effects, that's fine. Just ignore my question or say you don't know of any.

I understand that we've ruled out the possibility that masks will make kids severely ill or kill them, and I also understand people have made some assertions to personal freedom - so something other than those things. One guy alluded to an issue for kids with disabilities - that's definitely a consideration in California if true because it would potentially expose the school/district to liability (FWIW I'm skeptical of disparate effects on kids with disabilities because those lawsuits would surely have been filed by now and I'm not aware of any - but I'm interested in hearing more if that amounts to evidence that masks have harmful effects on kids).
 
Yours in futbol said:
I don't have a compelling argument for masks that hasn't already been made by dad4. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

(And honestly, I don't see the point to arguing with you guys. It's easier to just put people like Grace T on ignore.)

All I am looking for is a clear, specific explanation of the harmful effects that masks have on kids and supporting studies/information, if someone would like to take the time to provide it. If there are no known harmful effects, that's fine. Just ignore my question or say you don't know of any.

I understand that we've ruled out the possibility that masks will make kids severely ill or kill them, and I also understand people have made some assertions to personal freedom - so something other than those things. One guy alluded to an issue for kids with disabilities - that's definitely a consideration in California if true because it would potentially expose the school/district to liability (FWIW I'm skeptical of disparate effects on kids with disabilities because those lawsuits would surely have been filed by now and I'm not aware of any - but I'm interested in hearing more if that amounts to evidence that masks have harmful effects on kids).
Click to expand...
I mean, we should know right? Masking of children worked during MERS and SARS1. The SIP and NPI's worked wonderfully during both MERS and SARS1. You hardly even noticed that we mandated such measures because mask saved so many children's lives during MERS and SARS-1. Makes you wonder why they didn't employ them sooner to save us from the child killing influenza.
 
Yours in futbol said:
I don't have a compelling argument for masks that hasn't already been made by dad4. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

(And honestly, I don't see the point to arguing with you guys. It's easier to just put people like Grace T on ignore.)

All I am looking for is a clear, specific explanation of the harmful effects that masks have on kids and supporting studies/information, if someone would like to take the time to provide it. If there are no known harmful effects, that's fine. Just ignore my question or say you don't know of any.

I understand that we've ruled out the possibility that masks will make kids severely ill or kill them, and I also understand people have made some assertions to personal freedom - so something other than those things. One guy alluded to an issue for kids with disabilities - that's definitely a consideration in California if true because it would potentially expose the school/district to liability (FWIW I'm skeptical of disparate effects on kids with disabilities because those lawsuits would surely have been filed by now and I'm not aware of any - but I'm interested in hearing more if that amounts to evidence that masks have harmful effects on kids).
Click to expand...
I guess we have different perspectives. I believe that you should have to show evidence for the exception and not the standard. You seem to believe that the standard has to be proved and not the exception.

I will repeat what I said, for San Diego County zero children have died of Covid...zero, nada, nil, zilch. You say what's the harm in making kids wear masks? I say what evidence do you have that kids need to wear masks? You have it completely backwards.
 
Grace T. said:
a. the higher viral loads involved in the Delta
b. your own argument that Asia had contained it because the masks, and now look, they haven't with the Delta.
c. Put together with the waterloo study.

I can't believe you are at that the Delta is the same as Prime to justify your mask beliefs? That's pretty jaw dropping.
Click to expand...
Jaw dropping, except for the minor detail that I never said that.

What I said: Unless there is evidence to the contrary, we should assume that masks cause the same percentage reduction for Delta as masks cause for prime.

As for your hand waving arguments:

a- Higher viral loads do not imply that masks have a lower percentage reduction for Delta.
b- An equal percentage reduction from a higher base is fully consistent with the recent case rates from Asia.
c- The Waterloo study never claims that the percentage reduction for Delta is at all changed.

Now, do you have any actual evidence that masks cause a lower percentage reduction for Delta than for any other variant? Evidence, as in a link and a quote from a published paper. Not just writing “there is a surge in Taipei, so the masks must be a bad idea.”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top