Vaccine

So if it slows your exhaling breath (this leaving more Carbon Dioxide close to your face) it must also slow your inhale. Therefore drawing less oxygen and more carbon dioxide (since its somewhat “trapped” between your mouth and the mask) with every breath.

I’m sure that oxygen deprivation (however slight it may be) is great for kids in a learning environment much less an athletic one.
There was a paper trying to measure that, but it has been withdrawn.

You can do a swag. A normal resting breath is about 0.5 liters. If your mask traps 100ml of air, then you’re only getting 80% new air. :(

The rebreathing effect is why I went with lightweight cloth instead of N95. The cloth mask fits tight across my face and doesn’t feel stuffy because it traps a lot less air.

I mostly just avoid any situation where an N95 would be appropriate. If I want to talk to someone, we meet outside.
 
So if it slows your exhaling breath (this leaving more Carbon Dioxide close to your face) it must also slow your inhale. Therefore drawing less oxygen and more carbon dioxide (since its somewhat “trapped” between your mouth and the mask) with every breath.

I’m sure that oxygen deprivation (however slight it may be) is great for kids in a learning environment much less an athletic one.
Wouldn't snorkels work much better? It would send the warm breath up and out, (aka redirect the plume) without blocking the inhalation of oxygen. It would also solve LA County's issue with not being able to mask kids for swimming and water polo.
 
Wouldn't snorkels work much better? It would send the warm breath up and out, (aka redirect the plume) without blocking the inhalation of oxygen. It would also solve LA County's issue with not being able to mask kids for swimming and water polo.
Snorkels would do exactly the same thing.

There is a slight problem in that snorkels have a significant volume. You’d find it stuffy after a while.

Depending on your own personal sense of style, you might have other objections. Or not. Who am I to judge?
 
Krispy Kreme is upping the doughnut ante in its COVID-19 vaccine push, doubling the number of free sweet treats that vaccinated customers can receive if they jabbed. Vaccinated patrons can get an original glazed, along with a heart-shaped doughnut, as part of the company's "Show Your Heart," which runs from Monday to Sept. 5.


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There was a paper trying to measure that, but it has been withdrawn.

You can do a swag. A normal resting breath is about 0.5 liters. If your mask traps 100ml of air, then you’re only getting 80% new air. :(

The rebreathing effect is why I went with lightweight cloth instead of N95. The cloth mask fits tight across my face and doesn’t feel stuffy because it traps a lot less air.

I mostly just avoid any situation where an N95 would be appropriate. If I want to talk to someone, we meet outside.
With the delta given the high viral loads that’s a riskier proposition than it was with the prime.
Wouldn't snorkels work much better? It would send the warm breath up and out, (aka redirect the plume) without blocking the inhalation of oxygen. It would also solve LA County's issue with not being able to mask kids for swimming and water polo.
The Waterloo study would indicate the best use of masks are for short casual interactions indoors. Even if that plum redirects, the cloth masks aren’t going to help you if you are talking face to face with someone outdoors at a wedding, going through a Costco on a busy Sunday, on an airplane with a sick person behind you or in a classroom all day.
 
With the delta given the high viral loads that’s a riskier proposition than it was with the prime.

The Waterloo study would indicate the best use of masks are for short casual interactions indoors. Even if that plum redirects, the cloth masks aren’t going to help you if you are talking face to face with someone outdoors at a wedding, going through a Costco on a busy Sunday, on an airplane with a sick person behind you or in a classroom all day.
I think you’re misinterpreting the Waterloo study, again.

Nothing in the study says masks are only useful for short indoor interactions. Nor does the study say that masks wont help at an outdoor wedding.

Why bother with research if you’re just going to make stuff up and pretend it was from the papers?
 
I think you’re misinterpreting the Waterloo study, again.

Nothing in the study says masks are only useful for short indoor interactions. Nor does the study say that masks wont help at an outdoor wedding.

Why bother with research if you’re just going to make stuff up and pretend it was from the papers?
Well I’m trying to salvage a use for cloth masks based on what you outlined above. Short usages in well ventilated areas seem about it. Or we could go with what the Waterloo study suggests: ventilation in most cases is better than cloth masks and cloth masks/surgical masks work poorly in unventilated or crowded spaces compared to better masks. The overall recommendation of the study was if you are going to do masks do better ones which I’ve been saying for quite a while but your side doesn’t want to have that discussion because you’ll know how it goes.
 
Well I’m trying to salvage a use for cloth masks based on what you outlined above. Short usages in well ventilated areas seem about it. Or we could go with what the Waterloo study suggests: ventilation in most cases is better than cloth masks and cloth masks/surgical masks work poorly in unventilated or crowded spaces compared to better masks. The overall recommendation of the study was if you are going to do masks do better ones which I’ve been saying for quite a while but your side doesn’t want to have that discussion because you’ll know how it goes.
The benefit of cloth masks is simple: they keep you from breathing viral aerosols directly into someone else’s face.

Cloth masks also act as a 10% efficient filter.

What is there to salvage? It’s very clear what they do, and what they do not do. They block direct person to person transmission; they do not block indirect transmission from buildup in a room.

Therefore, the N95 is for places where viral aerosol concentrations can build up. (shopping, airplanes, etc.)

Cloth is for meeting people in places where viral concentrations cannot build up. (outdoors, very well ventilated classrooms, etc.)

The “N95 or nothing” drumbeat just doesn’t make sense. What is the added benefit of an N95 when you are outside?
 
There was a paper trying to measure that, but it has been withdrawn.

You can do a swag. A normal resting breath is about 0.5 liters. If your mask traps 100ml of air, then you’re only getting 80% new air. :(

The rebreathing effect is why I went with lightweight cloth instead of N95. The cloth mask fits tight across my face and doesn’t feel stuffy because it traps a lot less air.

I mostly just avoid any situation where an N95 would be appropriate. If I want to talk to someone, we meet outside.
Don't you get the sense that "experts" are tossing things up against the wall and waiting to see what sticks. For every study, there is another study that contradicts, or a study that gets thrown out. Viral load is a great example of a split in opinions and data. Some show/think viral load matters, some think/show viral load can't be correlated to really anything. Frustrating for many "run of the mill" medical professionals. Many tend to ignore these studies and go with their training and deal with the symptoms in front of them. Usually good practice by experienced medical professionals, none of which are on the news networks promoting their books.

This leads us to vaccine hesitancy. There is a major healthcare system in Arizona is running about 60% not vaccinated workers, by choice. If the system decides to follow through on threats, there won't be many healthcare workers to found. Interesting dilemma. Last year they were heroes, this year they are killers of the vaccinated.

It's interesting to see how much regard is given to talking heads on TV who haven't practiced in years. In spite of what the media likes to spew, plenty of Ivermectin, Hydroxy, etc are being prescribed - with many, many positive outcomes. MDs tend to know their patients, do their own research, and are generally smart. Of course, you will have people who will venture to the feed store and the pet store and attempt to self medicate. Never a good option.

And masking, well, polarizing to say the least. There was a time when masking during surgery was questioned. Mainly as a cost saving option, but it was questioned and studies were done. There was enough data to support both sides...imagine that.
 
The benefit of cloth masks is simple: they keep you from breathing viral aerosols directly into someone else’s face.

Cloth masks also act as a 10% efficient filter.

What is there to salvage? It’s very clear what they do, and what they do not do. They block direct person to person transmission; they do not block indirect transmission from buildup in a room.

Therefore, the N95 is for places where viral aerosol concentrations can build up. (shopping, airplanes, etc.)

Cloth is for meeting people in places where viral concentrations cannot build up. (outdoors, very well ventilated classrooms, etc.)

The “N95 or nothing” drumbeat just doesn’t make sense. What is the added benefit of an N95 when you are outside?
That’s because you are now from the text of your statement at masks outdoors.

sending kids to school with cloth masks, or shoppers on a Sunday at Costco, or on a plane are security theater. But at least you are FINALLY willing to admit there’s a distinction.
 
Don't you get the sense that "experts" are tossing things up against the wall and waiting to see what sticks. For every study, there is another study that contradicts, or a study that gets thrown out. Viral load is a great example of a split in opinions and data. Some show/think viral load matters, some think/show viral load can't be correlated to really anything. Frustrating for many "run of the mill" medical professionals. Many tend to ignore these studies and go with their training and deal with the symptoms in front of them. Usually good practice by experienced medical professionals, none of which are on the news networks promoting their books.

This leads us to vaccine hesitancy. There is a major healthcare system in Arizona is running about 60% not vaccinated workers, by choice. If the system decides to follow through on threats, there won't be many healthcare workers to found. Interesting dilemma. Last year they were heroes, this year they are killers of the vaccinated.

It's interesting to see how much regard is given to talking heads on TV who haven't practiced in years. In spite of what the media likes to spew, plenty of Ivermectin, Hydroxy, etc are being prescribed - with many, many positive outcomes. MDs tend to know their patients, do their own research, and are generally smart. Of course, you will have people who will venture to the feed store and the pet store and attempt to self medicate. Never a good option.

And masking, well, polarizing to say the least. There was a time when masking during surgery was questioned. Mainly as a cost saving option, but it was questioned and studies were done. There was enough data to support both sides...imagine that.
I always trust those on the front line over those in the lab.
 
CNN's Don Lemon rips parents opposed to mask mandates, says some conspiracy theorists shouldn't have had kids
'Just because you can have kids doesn’t mean you should'

"Why so angry? It’s a mask," Lemon said
 
CNN's Don Lemon rips parents opposed to mask mandates, says some conspiracy theorists shouldn't have had kids
'Just because you can have kids doesn’t mean you should'

"Why so angry? It’s a mask," Lemon said
Don doesn't have kids, he's just another adult that thinks kids should bear the burden to protect adults. Pay to no mind to Lemon, nobody else does, he has one of the lowest rated programs on evening TV.
 
That’s because you are now from the text of your statement at masks outdoors.

sending kids to school with cloth masks, or shoppers on a Sunday at Costco, or on a plane are security theater. But at least you are FINALLY willing to admit there’s a distinction.
“Security theater“ is a rhetorical device for claiming something doesn’t help, without actually having to bother providing any evidence for your claim.

The evidence, from the studies you have referenced, is that cloth masks prevent an infected person from breathing covid directly into the face of an uninfected person. That is hygiene, not theater.

Do you have a logical objection to running a school with good ventilation and cloth masks? The classroom HEPA filter prevents aerosol buildup, and the mask prevents direct person to person infection. Much better than putting N95 masks on kids, and less community spread than going totally mask free.
 
Don doesn't have kids, he's just another adult that thinks kids should bear the burden to protect adults. Pay to no mind to Lemon, nobody else does, he has one of the lowest rated programs on evening TV.
My old pal is drinking the Don Lemon kool aid and say's the same shit to me Wat Fly. Millionaire out in Scottsdale, on golf course, retired, two sons with kiddos. 100% white and full of guilt for how he lived before he retired. I'm giving a little back drop for my true story telling. 5 years ago he was out all over AZ preaching HRC and how evil t was. t won and he was went ape shit. I was invited to his bday surprise party. It was a custome party too because his bday falls on Oct 31. I showed up dressed as Trump, I kid you not. His son saw me before I got to the door and told me 100% I ruin the party and he would not let me in. I had to out and find a Lemon mask and I was let in. Fast forward to couple days ago and out of Blue, he emailed me to see how things were in California. I told him the truth like I always do and he was tripping out on me and asked why I cuss now. He told me, "Bill, what is wrong with you. You need to do the jab for your safety, your children's safety and their children's and so on and so onn. He said one of his son's was not listening like me and he finally got the jab. I called his son later to get the real scoop and he said, "my dad basically said if I dont get jab no grandpa anymore ((and his money)) and he was serious so I got it. I'm appalled at how some parents control their kids with money. I told my pal my dd does whatever she feels is best for her and her alone. I dont have any money to control her and even when I thought I did, my dd blazed her trail. She could care a less about a buck. She wants to play one more year of competitive soccer at the highest level possible in club & high school without any interruptions. Girl just wants to play a soccer match, that's it. If some need soccer all to themselves in college, enjoy it all. I honestly have no clue on what my dd will end up doing but whatever she does, it will be all her choice, not daddy. Daddy will not be holding her and coaching her on the calls either. Da da is just a safe place to fall on, cry on and just talk to if want to, whenever you want. If you need a place to sleep, you have a place. Freedom for me should also include freedom for my kids on whatever path they choose. Soon Wat Fly, this will all get better and a MERIT based society will rule. Maritime Law was for Pirates, Cheaters & Liars.
 
Do you have a logical objection to running a school with good ventilation and cloth masks? The classroom HEPA filter prevents aerosol buildup, and the mask prevents direct person to person infection.
I do.

It wont make any difference.

But you try the math. 72 million kids 17 and under. 350 deaths since the beginning of this whole thing.

Based on that data, tell me why we would bother masking them or changing filtration to try to "protect" them.

Ah but what about the teachers. Well again...call me crazy. But we have had millions of kids in school last year both here and abroad. We didn't see teachers dropping off either.

So what exactly is the point?

Large percentages of people are already vaxxed. Those at risk have been vaxxed at extremely high rates.

Time to stop playing safety theater. Because that is all this is at this point.
 
“Security theater“ is a rhetorical device for claiming something doesn’t help, without actually having to bother providing any evidence for your claim.

The evidence, from the studies you have referenced, is that cloth masks prevent an infected person from breathing covid directly into the face of an uninfected person. That is hygiene, not theater.

Do you have a logical objection to running a school with good ventilation and cloth masks? The classroom HEPA filter prevents aerosol buildup, and the mask prevents direct person to person infection. Much better than putting N95 masks on kids, and less community spread than going totally mask free.

So you are down to "directly into the face of an uninfected person". that's your standard now? Wow, look at how far we've come. From masks are better than vaccines to "directly into the face of an uninfected person".

You know, as well, that Spain, France, Italy and (on public transportation) Germany don't allow cloth masks? You know as well that none of these countries require masking of young children?

As usual, it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. The benefit of cloth masks is very small. Again, we're down to "directly into the face of an uninfected person". The costs, particularly when it comes to kids, are high, and on top of that we have an alternative from the study (which is better ventilation). In places were better ventilation isn't a possibility, we need to have a serious discussion of what we need to do as a society. But we can't have that discussion until you realize that cloth masks are the equivalent of a bandaid on the problem, and a clear explanation for why the real world results (again see Hawaii, Israel, Iceland), don't match your preferred theories.
 
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