Oh I was convinced long ago you were a fool and a troll. As you know, we only added liar recently.
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
Oh I was convinced long ago you were a fool and a troll. As you know, we only added liar recently.
Again, you made my point (painfully obviously this time): forest and trees.
Your point? Both points, actually.
You believe I am off in my own little theoretical world with no connection to reality.
I believe you're pretending to understand things about which you have utterly no clue.
I'm ok with that. It's a pretty good description.
Fair summation of our respective beliefs. I do note, however, that back in law school I dated someone (quiet seriously) who was a student at the div school. Though my majors were Soviet studies and Econ, In undergrad I spent quite a few courses taking comparative religion classes. I spent many a Friday night at the div school in the lounge having riveting discussions with people of various religions but the traditional Christians were the most interesting, particularly since I knew the history of the early church and the early gospels backwards and forwards and could dissect their arguments fairly easily. Our conversations bore a striking resemblance to our conversations…eerily so. My favorite personally was the Mormon plates discussion one blizzard evening. The explanation I always got for why I was wrong is “you don’t understand”. Again, whether it be Afghanistan or 2008 or covid, the experts, for a variety of reasons, have an amazing ability to miss the forest through the trees.
Have you heard of the "burning of the bosom?" When this is all over Grace, I would love to have coffee with you and my wife. Great stuff from a great mind
what-happened
GOLD
This was obviously done before the leaky vaccine with waning protection was a thing.
Yours in futbol
SILVER
I don't necessarily think they should.
But in order to make an argument for masks in my local community/school district, I'd like to be able to balance the harms.
So on one hand, we have a very, very small percentage of kids that have died from COVID. So obviously very, very limited benefit to wearing masks, but I'm sure you'll concede nonetheless that there is some very, very small benefit.
What do we have to balance that against? What is the harm that is caused to kids by having them wear masks? That's what I'm asking.
Usually, when we talk about these things at school board meetings or community chat groups, the anti-mask people just keep coming back to personal freedom. They can't cite to any cognizable, harmful effects from wearing masks. So I stupidly came to a soccer forum to ask if someone could cite to anything. In my defense, these threads comprise thousands of posts, some of which are interesting evaluations of legitimate studies, so I assumed that somewhere down the line, someone could identify whether any kids had suffered harmful effects (illness, death, hospitalization, whatever.)
Desert Hound
DA
According to a large study conducted by the CDC, rates of COVID transmission are no higher in schools without a mask mandate than in schools with a requirement to wear a mask.
The CDC’s findings on masks and other preventive measures would not be particularly noteworthy or controversial outside the US. As New York magazine noted, many European nations have exempted students from mask mandates—including the UK, all of Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and even France and Italy—though with varying age cutoffs. The results have not been dire.
“Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future,” wrote Zweig. “These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit.”
The CDC’s findings on masks and other preventive measures would not be particularly noteworthy or controversial outside the US. As New York magazine noted, many European nations have exempted students from mask mandates—including the UK, all of Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and even France and Italy—though with varying age cutoffs. The results have not been dire.
“Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future,” wrote Zweig. “These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit.”
Desert Hound
DA
Actually the CDC has a study and can't find a benefit. See above. They looked at schools that mandated masks vs those that didn't. There was no statistical difference.
This age group has zero risk.
To put another way, far more kids in this age group die from the FLU. And despite that we don't contact trace, don't try masks, don't socially distance them, etc.
And unfortunately most of those 350 kids that died? Almost every one had very serious health issues. The data doesn't break it down, but I lay money that most of those 350 kids were not even in school due to their health issues.
It is bad policy to look at the numbers above and think that something has to be done. It will not make any difference in that number. We have data not only here but world wide. Many other countries have tossed the masks in schools and they have found that nothing bad happened.
Why people don't look at the data out there is beyond belief.
We should be looking at the 72 million and 350 deaths and think....GREAT!!! This is one group we don't have to worry about AT ALL.
You ask what is the harm? The better and most relevant question is what is the benefit? And the data shows there won't be any benefit.
Here's a list of some costs, not comprehensive:
-Some kids are ADHD or Autistic sensitive. Some jurisdictions are allowing waivers for these kids, some are making it very difficult (like LA County), and some do not allow a waiver (LA County did not allow waivers for anyone last year).
-For the younger children, they learn in part through facial expressions. Remember all those articles about the importance of children with "face time" For the hearing impaired as well, viewing the face is critical.
-They are just uncomfortable for many people. If you dispute that, ask why Pelosi, Newsom, Fauci, and other politicians/health experts were caught cheating when the cameras weren't rolling.
-There is a communicative/societal value in seeing people's faces. We know for example movies and television programs and news programs filmed during the pandemic got waivers. If there wasn't any value to it, why aren't films/tv/news filmed during the pandemic filmed with masks on? It shouldn't make a difference, correct?
-There's the environmental damage from masks. The non-cloth ones take a long time to degrade. Remember when people were freaking out about plastic straws and plastic bags. Those masks are supposed to be single use. Even the N95s pre pandemic were supposed to be single use. The environmental damage is huge, and would be worse if people wore them correctly.
So let's not pretend that masks are a cost free solution. Granted, the cost is relatively lower than lockdowns. But a balance still has to be taken of the costs against the benefits. On the benefits end, Hound has articulated that there seems to be very little benefit for kids wearing masks in schools, plus we know we are out of step with the other western countries that don't require it. Given that, unless the pro mask side can demonstrate some beneficial evidence that outweighs the costs, they shouldn't be required in schools.
Now I'm not saying that masks should never be required anywhere. I supported pre vaccine the indoor masks mandates. But we need to have a discussion about better masking and where it should be required (airplanes yes, schools absolutely not. supermarkets it depends what approach we need to the pandemic and if believe Gottlieb or the UK)
I am not aware of any studies demonstrating that masks cause harm to anyone.
There was one study that tried to measure CO2 buildup and lack of oxygen due to rebreathing the air between the mask and the face. That study has been withdrawn.
Yes there are incidents like this that happen when you try to mask people exercising. I myself, remember, collapsed servicing my car while I had a fever in the hot sun after a long day having to wait for it outside in the heat. Not a typical response but it represents the limits of masking in extreme circumstances
Rio Rancho runner collapses during masked cross country competition
RIO RANCHO, N.M. (KRQE) – It was a dramatic finish for a Rio Rancho cross country runner at this year’s New Mexico state championship. A senior with at least five years of competitive ru…
www.krqe.com
Just a point for reference -- exhaled air is what keeps people alive in CPR.
Yes there are incidents like this that happen when you try to mask people exercising. I myself, remember, collapsed servicing my car while I had a fever in the hot sun after a long day having to wait for it outside in the heat. Not a typical response but it represents the limits of masking in extreme circumstances
Rio Rancho runner collapses during masked cross country competition
RIO RANCHO, N.M. (KRQE) – It was a dramatic finish for a Rio Rancho cross country runner at this year’s New Mexico state championship. A senior with at least five years of competitive ru…
Submit to Southern California Journal of Anecdotes.
Anecdotal story. We don't require our kids to be masked in situations where they can maintain 6 feet of distance at our youth clubhouses. Our counselors who are masked do a great job of maintaining space. Kids are only required to a mask indoors if the 6 feet spacing can't be maintained. We've been open since June 2020, have there been infections? yes. Have their been outbreaks? no. Kids were likely infected outside of our clubhouses where precautions can't be maintained.
Can every school provide 6 feet of spacing, probably not, but many can. Where there is a will there is way to maintain spacing if you consider all the indoor and outdoor space available. Furthermore, the clear plastic being used in many schools is a barrier that can redirect the plume, since it's non-permeable likely better than masks. (yes I'm aware of the plastic barrier study) Unfortunately, many adults out of their own selfishness are F it, just make the kids where masks.
If you remember when the masking policy was first recommended it was 6 feet or a mask. Like everything else the goalposts keep moving.
Can every school provide 6 feet of spacing, probably not, but many can. Where there is a will there is way to maintain spacing if you consider all the indoor and outdoor space available. Furthermore, the clear plastic being used in many schools is a barrier that can redirect the plume, since it's non-permeable likely better than masks. (yes I'm aware of the plastic barrier study) Unfortunately, many adults out of their own selfishness are F it, just make the kids where masks.
If you remember when the masking policy was first recommended it was 6 feet or a mask. Like everything else the goalposts keep moving.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Why is Pfizer vaccine called Comirnaty?
The meaning behind the name 'Comirnaty' Comirnaty is an agglomeration of the words “Covid-19 immunity” and “mRNA,” the latter indicating the technology that makes the vaccine work. As a whole, the word is intended to evoke “community,” a Brand Institute executive said.
Koom-bah-yah!
The meaning behind the name 'Comirnaty' Comirnaty is an agglomeration of the words “Covid-19 immunity” and “mRNA,” the latter indicating the technology that makes the vaccine work. As a whole, the word is intended to evoke “community,” a Brand Institute executive said.
Koom-bah-yah!
Bruddah IZ
DA
Is that why you ignore SARS-1 and MERS outcomes. That's easy math.