Vaccine
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EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Here's another entry for the "no long term studies, kids have no risk" file.
The paper has an interesting back story. One of the senior authors has devoted their career to understanding "brain fog/neuro-sensory problems" in cancer patients treated with old school chemotherapy drugs like methotrexate. The observation was that those symptoms match the range of chronic neuroinflammatory sequalae currently being lumped together as "long Covid". So they used their existing body of data to see if there were similar underlying molecular/cellular mechanisms. And that appears to be the case. If your immune system is configured in a susceptible way, Cov2 is like chemotherapy.
The results are that even mild Cov2 infection in terms of respiratory symptoms can induce substantial neuroinflammation. The paper identifies microglia, which are cytokine secreting cells in the CSF, as being activated by Cov-2 infection. The CSF cytokines secreted by microglia act to inhibit a population of brain cells called astrocytes which are responsible for myelination of neurons. And if the myelination is reduced neurons become more prone for cell death. That's what spelled out in the abstract.
Importantly, the age structure/risk factors for serious respiratory C19 don't correlate with what is emerging as persistent neuroinflammatory problems associated with Cov-2 infection, which range from annoying to long term debilitating. Long term consequences is anybody's guess. The importance of this work is that with specific molecules and cell populations to look at it should be possible to tease that apart more quickly and see to what extent current vaccines reduce CSF cytokine storms like they clearly do with the humoral IL6 circuit. And it will be important to see what's going on with infected kids/young adults. It could work out either way. There's lots of CNS plasticity in young people compared to us old timers. That neuronal plasticity could help circumvent the effects of CoV-2-induce CSF hyperinflammation. Or it could make the developmental processes of establishing neuronal hook ups more susceptible. We'll just have to see.
Mild respiratory COVID can cause multi-lineage neural cell and myelin dysregulation
Mild respiratory COVID causes neuroinflammation and multi-lineage cellular dysregulation in the central nervous system, a phenomenon mirroring cancer-therapy-related cognitive impairment.
www.cell.com
The paper has an interesting back story. One of the senior authors has devoted their career to understanding "brain fog/neuro-sensory problems" in cancer patients treated with old school chemotherapy drugs like methotrexate. The observation was that those symptoms match the range of chronic neuroinflammatory sequalae currently being lumped together as "long Covid". So they used their existing body of data to see if there were similar underlying molecular/cellular mechanisms. And that appears to be the case. If your immune system is configured in a susceptible way, Cov2 is like chemotherapy.
The results are that even mild Cov2 infection in terms of respiratory symptoms can induce substantial neuroinflammation. The paper identifies microglia, which are cytokine secreting cells in the CSF, as being activated by Cov-2 infection. The CSF cytokines secreted by microglia act to inhibit a population of brain cells called astrocytes which are responsible for myelination of neurons. And if the myelination is reduced neurons become more prone for cell death. That's what spelled out in the abstract.
Importantly, the age structure/risk factors for serious respiratory C19 don't correlate with what is emerging as persistent neuroinflammatory problems associated with Cov-2 infection, which range from annoying to long term debilitating. Long term consequences is anybody's guess. The importance of this work is that with specific molecules and cell populations to look at it should be possible to tease that apart more quickly and see to what extent current vaccines reduce CSF cytokine storms like they clearly do with the humoral IL6 circuit. And it will be important to see what's going on with infected kids/young adults. It could work out either way. There's lots of CNS plasticity in young people compared to us old timers. That neuronal plasticity could help circumvent the effects of CoV-2-induce CSF hyperinflammation. Or it could make the developmental processes of establishing neuronal hook ups more susceptible. We'll just have to see.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
I'm sorry to hear about the passion for Trump. He has done an amazing job of harnessing the open and celebrated contempt directed toward large segments of the population.
It will be interesting to see how the COVID "migration" plays out. Previously, movement from CA and NY to "red" states tended to make them less red - although I never saw any studies indicating that was the source of the change. I am wondering if the political leanings of those that moved weren't further right and the COVID migration will tend to increase the political divide between states.
As you say, "everything the other 1/2 of the country does is such an existential threat." and as our resident wannabe-woke hermit says - Are you suggesting that people in the"middle of the country" are stupid? I'm not sure how we overcome this level of division. I'm to the point where I think we need to consider some type of independence of states.
No, we need Nations first to be respected. The Global Elite assholes who control us want a Liberal World Order. Not a New World Order, only Liberal only world, which = no God allowed! Agnostic people don't get it yet and that is not a knock on you brother, it's just the facts. This is Gods planet not Klause and his crew or Hollywood. You see the Light someday and then we can have that beer....lol. Love you man and God wins!
Would this be a valid reason for and justify closing schools?Here's another entry for the "no long term studies, kids have no risk" file.
Mild respiratory COVID can cause multi-lineage neural cell and myelin dysregulation
Mild respiratory COVID causes neuroinflammation and multi-lineage cellular dysregulation in the central nervous system, a phenomenon mirroring cancer-therapy-related cognitive impairment.www.cell.com
The paper has an interesting back story. One of the senior authors has devoted their career to understanding "brain fog/neuro-sensory problems" in cancer patients treated with old school chemotherapy drugs like methotrexate. The observation was that those symptoms match the range of chronic neuroinflammatory sequalae currently being lumped together as "long Covid". So they used their existing body of data to see if there were similar underlying molecular/cellular mechanisms. And that appears to be the case. If your immune system is configured in a susceptible way, Cov2 is like chemotherapy.
The results are that even mild Cov2 infection in terms of respiratory symptoms can induce substantial neuroinflammation. The paper identifies microglia, which are cytokine secreting cells in the CSF, as being activated by Cov-2 infection. The CSF cytokines secreted by microglia act to inhibit a population of brain cells called astrocytes which are responsible for myelination of neurons. And if the myelination is reduced neurons become more prone for cell death. That's what spelled out in the abstract.
Importantly, the age structure/risk factors for serious respiratory C19 don't correlate with what is emerging as persistent neuroinflammatory problems associated with Cov-2 infection, which range from annoying to long term debilitating. Long term consequences is anybody's guess. The importance of this work is that with specific molecules and cell populations to look at it should be possible to tease that apart more quickly and see to what extent current vaccines reduce CSF cytokine storms like they clearly do with the humoral IL6 circuit. And it will be important to see what's going on with infected kids/young adults. It could work out either way. There's lots of CNS plasticity in young people compared to us old timers. That neuronal plasticity could help circumvent the effects of CoV-2-induce CSF hyperinflammation. Or it could make the developmental processes of establishing neuronal hook ups more susceptible. We'll just have to see.
Are mice studies applicable to humans?
Why animal studies are often poor predictors of human reactions to exposure - PMC
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Tyler Durden
BRONZE
The elite control both political sides and harness emotion and race to divide so that they can take more profits. All this media and article writing is political theater.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
See Figure 5.
I made one "here's what I'd do if I ran the zoo" policy IMO on this thread. I did the post just before the delta summer of death. I ended up feeling I have the luxury of not having to make those calls, to deal with the tradeoffs, and to live dwelling on outcomes.
So for the school shutdown I choose to only speak for my family. There were pros and cons. With my younger daughter it was frustrating at times, she has pretty serious ADHD. In being forced to get down in the trenches and deal with that I got to discover how her mind worked-what learning was for her. I think we have a much closer relationship now in some ways than before the pandemic, for which I'm grateful. It was of course hard, but we took lemons and made lemonade and tried to have some fun. I came away with an enhanced appreciation for what elementary school teachers do. So what's justified or not justified? The way I might frame the question and make the necessary value calls is probably different than you would. There is no one answer. It was what it was and will likely be again in the coming decades. I do think we will have more geographically tailored public health polices next time and that may be helpful.
And guess where ADHD came from Evil? WTF did Autism come from? Start connecting the dots and please, get off the Juice brother! I'm super stoked to hear you got closer to your dd and that is awesome. My son was pissed off having to come home and live in my living for room 18 months doing online college. My dd is a social butterfly and got two years stolen. It's all been a blessing but when you go through discipline like we all did, it will produce righteousness for those who have been trained by it and bitterness for those who fight it.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Compared to Grace, I came away from my latest mid-American juant with a more hopeful feel for the American project compared to previous trips. Sampling error maybe. For your last point, you might consider reading Colin Woodward's "American Nations". It's a great book and actually benefits from being written before the Trump catalyst. The basic thesis is that America was colonized by essentially a rando set of refugees with different political outlooks who have been battling each other ever since, forming coalitions leading to the "red" vs "blue" stalemate we have today. The last chapter of the book deals with possible outcomes-ways to possibly stop fighting with each other. One interesting suggestion is a type of EU model, with considerable autonomy between these "nations" but with collective economic and defense obligations. I suspect it would need to be more a city-state vs hinterlands type of arrangement as opposed to current state boundaries, which, once you get past the eastern seaboard, are pretty arbitrary. Of course it is all pie in the sky since nobody is going to be agreeing on much of anything for the immediate future.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
She had the ADHD diagnosis before the pandemic so.....
Well, I guess it could be something tied into an evil cabal world order in which we're all being exploited and the Storm, Freedom and Truth is coming. Really soon. Real, real soon. Wait for it. It's almost here. You'll see. Brethren of the Seven Churces I write to tell you of my recent experiences with the ergot, with which I have recently been sorely afflicted. Something like that.
Or maybe her ADHD is just how her own brain is put together and doesn't have anything to do with the pandemic or Hunter Biden or the price of tea in China. Nah. It can't be that. All the dots have to connect.
Like I said, I want you to stay on your Juice and I'll stay on mine. Keep soaking it up and showing it to me.
You seem to be feeling better and back to your old self. I am glad to hear it, and I mean that.
Did she take all her vaccines as a baby? I am back 100% and I am FIRED UP and ready to ball bro. You have no idea how long I have been waiting for all this to go down.
This ignores the trends that are going on in the rest of the world including Sri Lanka, Colombia, the Netherlands and Canada. It goes beyond the USA. The entire history of the 20th century can be summed up in one film: "Auntie Maime". In Auntie Maime, many outsiders (single mothers, LGBTQ, Jewish people and other minorities, artists and actors, care free liberals) who consider themselves well-off and elite, resent that they've been excluded by the traditional Republican white shoe/big business upper class, who look down on them. The struggle of the 20th century was these distinct well-off groups (for other examples, see the Cosby Show, Will & Grace, Modern Family) achieving recognition as part of the elite. However, these elite left other groups (working class people of all races) outside the tent of respectability. What's more is this new elite had a lot more in common with the old elite than they did with those outside the tent: a globalist vision-- one where borders are no longer as important, where trade is free, where nations cooperate to police the world, where capitalism protects the interest of the well-off but provides a moderate social safety net, and where certain social issues near and dear to them are prized, and where expertise is valued above all. It's where the EU was born, and why the EU is drifting (now with the weight of Brexit thrown off) into ever greater unity (particularly now with the Russian threat).
But those outside the tent had a distinct feeling that they were normally being thrown under the bus (with rules such as with respect to COVID and climate change applying to them, but not their elitist betters) and were being looked down upon (the Obama guns and religion remarks). So, there are two temptations for them to overthrow the world globalist elitist order: a) socialism: think Bernie bros or the socialist wave sweeping South America, under the idea that the previous models weren't true democratic socialist models, and b) populism (which is why they like Trump so much...not only does he fight back, but unlike DeSantis, Trump is loved because he's been treated like an outsider just like them).
I agree superfederalism in a very loose EU like confederation would fix this. But there are two problems with that. 1. the EU itself (like most institutions) tends to drift to greater centralization and greater unity because the power holders like to amalgamate and enhance their rule, and 2. the globalists will never agree to it: there are too many changes they regard as existential whether climate change, abortion access, COVID rules, or their own social status, which this type of arrangement would overcome. My worry is that we are headed to a lot more Sri Lankas, a lot more Canadas, and a lot more Netherlands. It's actually kind of funny that it started in Canada: we see the globalist reaction that will happen and eventually it just fizzled (the Canadians are so nice of a people, after all). I fear Sri Lanka is really just the first domino to fall, and given what's coming, we are going to see a lot more of it.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
It's good to hear some positive experiences.
I like the "type of EU model" presented. From my perspective, it would be a best-case scenario outcome. I also agree it's at least a bit pie in the sky. As long as we are on that path, I'll go full pie in the sky. A friend of mine mentioned the following for the Supreme Court. If they can't get at least 7 of 9 justices (75% was what he suggested), the power goes back to the states. Same for overturning existing laws of the land. It adds stability but slows the pace of national change.
ADHD is just how certain brains have been wired. It's evolutionary. On the hunt, they needed people who could focus in on the tracks to get the mastadon, and they also needed people who were scanning around and could yell "saber tooth tiger!".
Where crush has a bit of a point is that even though ADHD might just be how a brain is put together, the way we treat it has been entirely influenced by politics and society. Rather than accept, hey these people just are uniquely evolved and there might be a purpose on that, we seek to correct it as a problem. It's a problem because our society has developed credentialism as the means to evaluate people (whether in soccer, or in the classroom, or on the job) and testing has become central to credentialism (and ADHD people do not do well with the current regime of testing). So you have to "fix" the problem through therapy, medication, and accommodations (which the elite just happen to be particularly good at getting) so these kids can take their justified place in the upper middle class. That it helps finance an entire ADHD industrial complex is just an added side benefit.
Agreed, but I would add demographic and risk based tailoring. The biggest failure with our policies was the "one size fits all" approach.
In terms of school closures, I don't know how anyone can justify closing them by giving more weight to unknown long-term risks versus known short-term and long-term risks and consequences.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Human nature indicates that the "drift to greater centralization" is a constant battle that will never be won - just continuously fought.
Like entropy.....but there are forces of nature that periodically do reverse it (like birth) temporarily back towards order even though the march is inexorable toward entropy
Well it does bring two thoughts to mind:
1. If we survive that long, one world government will eventually happen (though it may take a long long time and it may not be the Star Trek utopia people think it will be) and
2. We probably won't survive that long.
Yes, we made the best of the lockdown, but we we're far from strict lock downers. We made cost vs. benefit decisions that in hindsight worked well for our family. Our children had social lives during the lockdowns and we're never separated from their relatives. It was harder on my HS daughter than my MS son, who had the time of his life. How well your or our family fared is largely irrelevant. We had the resources to mitigate damages from Covid lockdowns, many did not or had issues that made them more susceptible to isolation and distance learning. It has only put a greater wedge between the haves and the have nots, which could last long term for some families.
Wholeheartedly agree with you that elementary school teachers were awesome, high school teachers not so much. A lot of them just "mailed it in".
Our local public schools were completely caught unaware by what was happening and shut down on the assumption it was going to be two weeks but then remained completely closed for a month, some very basic remote self-learning in the spring of '20 (basically that entire quarter and a half was lost) and were only electronically ready for remote learning in the fall of '20.
The private middle schools for my family had medical experts on their emergency response boards and were ready to go from day 1 of shut downs with remote learning especially since all the kids were required already to have a lap top. In fact, the first tip I had about what was going to happen was a question which was raised at the private middle school we were touring in early Feb of '20 by a rando medical prospective parent.
My kid's private elementary school wasn't as extensively staffed as those middle schools and were completely unaware of what was going to happen. The only reason they had a plan in place was loudmouth me had demanded 3 weeks earlier a meeting with the principal and told her schools were likely going to be shut at least until the summer, and most likely until after Christmas of '20, and they needed to put a plan in place because they didn't have the resources of the large private middle schools. Only my son's dentist gave me a more shocked look than that meeting. To her credit, the principal took my hysterics seriously and jumped on it and they were ready to go by day 2 of the shutdown and were even open in the fall of '20, waiver in hand.