Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[Woobie06]

I'd just warn be careful what you wish for. If we wind up separate but equal, then trans athletes will be entitled to equivalent scholarship money taken from both genders (but which if women's football takes off will be much more severe on the girls) where right now it's almost (is?) impossible for them to get any. If we wind up with an open division, the principle of equality between mens and women's sports will be shattered because women will become a lesser subcategory of the open one, akin to disability. If we wind up in accommodations in men's sports, the vaunted meritocracy will go by the wayside (if you are going to go the golf route and start handicapping sports). You gotta put them somewhere. I don't see any scenario (short of the "open" division, since as dad4 pointed out, even FINA has rejected inclusion in a men's division) where they get dumped with the cis men and it's just too bad so sad. And I wouldn't be surprised if the shocker comes from a FTM as opposed to MTF, which as you pointed out, have been long neglected. Kinda like winning the battle, but losing the war, and shooting yourself in the foot in the process.

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

 

[SurFutbol]

You start with the name calling….calling me a trans phobe and others…ok, it is what it is…why? I’m not. I’m not scared of or hate people. What have I said negative about a trans person here? You have have called me names and I joked about your Subaru. That’s all good. Because I disagree with you, communicate it, does make my speech violent, phobic, discriminatory or anything like that. I’m allowed opinions just like you.

Yes, Lia Thomas did infringe on others. She won a National Championship and Emma Wyent finished second 1.75 seconds behind. It also forced the 3rd Place Biological Women out of the Medal. Unless I am wrong, the NCAA has not made this right with Medals for these young Women. Was this because of Lia Thomas’ Biological Male Physiological advantage that she won? You bet. 100%. That young lady worked most of her life to win a championship. It was stolen from her. That’s my issue….not kiddie, bow, ice cream, orange slice, gummi bear, or goldfish little kid sports.

This kid got f’d…that is not fair, and that’s my point…do you think this is right or fair? I don’t want anything that creates these types of situations.

If your argument is to let it go until something bad happens and then we will fix it…like in swimming, I just don’t agree. Make it right at the start. Until it is fair and equal from the start I will not support it and Biological Men in Biological Women’s Competitive Sports is not a fair endeavor.

Any studies on what the kids or the actual participants think? Anybody ask Emma Wyent how she feels?

I have explained very clearly why you are transphobic, which you are. I have given you every opportunity to weigh ALL the pros and cons with respect to whether a 13 year old trans should (or should not) be allowed to play with other girls - instead of just the ones that militate against - but you can't even accept that there are any pros to weigh against your "cons". You never will, because going down the road of actually weighing the pros and cons requires you to consider the actual humanity involved, including that real world implications of your decision on the interests of trans children. You believe that your 14 year old daughter maybe winning a trophy in a kiddie sport is more important than trans children often being able to avoid tremendous abuse being forced to play with other boys. You know in the end that is a pathetic, unempathetic and pretty vile position to take. There are only a couple ways for transphobes like yourself to rationalize this. One is to claim that being trans is wrong and that trans people and their parents are bad people, so it's ok to treat bad people like shit. The variation on this, and what you are doing, is to pretend that trans kids aren't entitled to have any interests in this matter. So long as you can deny their reality and humanity by continuing to pretend there is only one "fact" that is relevant - that a trans girls is more athletic than they would have been if they were born a biological girl - you can ignore every single factor that supports trans participation and delude yourself that your position won't cause actual and severe harm to children.

You know how Emma Weyant responded. You scoured the Internet without success looking for something to suggest she was angry, which is why you decided to "just ask a question" to support your bs. But that still doesn't change the fact that this has nothing to do with whether a 13 year old trans girl should be allowed to play with other girls knowing the abuse she will suffer if she must participate with the boys and endure their harassment, along with that of their shitbag transphobic parents. But I'm sure that pales in comparison to the horrible emotional impact that Emma Weyant must have suffered because she only got a silver medal, right? She'll probably never recover from this, am I right?

 

[Grace T.]

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

My son got screwed by the age line change through not fault of his own
My son got screwed by the ADHD thing through not fault of his own
My son's friend got screwed because of his broken back and being forced to compete with prematurely developed 12 year olds that were 6 ft high
Kids are actively being screwed in youth sports right now because we aren't hunting down testosterone and HGH cheats
Kids are actively being screwed in club soccer right now because the second team needs a viable striker, or a mom who is the manager gets entitled to special privileges, or the kid has moved from another location and is equally good but the tie breaker is the other kid has been in the position longer.
Lots of kids got screwed when we shut down the entire sports thing for COVID and some kids in California missed their recruitment year.
Hey if your kid is playing soccer in Los Angeles instead of Kansas City, your kid is being actively screwed right now because he might be an academy player in Kansas City but given LA's population can't be here.

Hunting for fairness in sports is like chasing the dragon. Particularly when it comes to youth soccer.

 

[SurFutbol]

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

Why don't you just STFU about what Emma Weyant wants, because you have no clue. More importantly, although you do know from your desperate Internet search what the bronze medalist believes, why are you hiding that? According to you was "f**ked" out of a silver medal, but she is very clearly calling out you and your transphobic friends:

"All athletes — including transgender athletes — deserve to be respected and included, exactly as we are. Throughout my life, swimming has enabled me to learn so much both in and out of the pool, and transgender athletes should not be excluded from this opportunity." She then went on to say:

"Lia Thomas has been unfairly targeted for just that - for being who she is, a transgender woman," Sullivan wrote. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labeled a cheater simply because of her identity". Sullivan then noted that, with many pressing crises emerging across the globe, time should be spent finding solutions to serious problems, rather than debating her "fellow swimmer's fundamental rights." Simply put, "transgender athletes should not be denied equal rights when compared to cisgender athletes."

Why is it that you're ignoring her? She has very plainly laid out some of the reasons that support trans participation, yet here you are continuing to pretend that these legitimate reasons do not exist.

 

[SurFutbol]

OK, so now CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the USWNT, SCOTUS, a significant number of the most important female athletes in history (Billie Jean King, Megan Rapinoe, and Candace Parker Join Nearly 200 Athletes Supporting Trans Youth Participation in Sports - Women's Sports Foundation (womenssportsfoundation.org), plus the bronze medalist (at least) in the infamous Lia Thomas race, all openly agree with me.

But even now, the transphobes here refuse to admit that a single legitimate factor exists to even weigh against their "men are men and women are women" bs.

 

[Woobie06]

Why don't you just STFU about what Emma Weyant wants, because you have no clue. More importantly, although you do know from your desperate Internet search what the bronze medalist believes, why are you hiding that? According to you was "f**ked" out of a silver medal, but she is very clearly calling out you and your transphobic friends:

"All athletes — including transgender athletes — deserve to be respected and included, exactly as we are. Throughout my life, swimming has enabled me to learn so much both in and out of the pool, and transgender athletes should not be excluded from this opportunity." She then went on to say:

"Lia Thomas has been unfairly targeted for just that - for being who she is, a transgender woman," Sullivan wrote. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labeled a cheater simply because of her identity". Sullivan then noted that, with many pressing crises emerging across the globe, time should be spent finding solutions to serious problems, rather than debating her "fellow swimmer's fundamental rights." Simply put, "transgender athletes should not be denied equal rights when compared to cisgender athletes."

Why is it that you're ignoring her? She has very plainly laid out some of the reasons that support trans participation, yet here you are continuing to pretend that these legitimate reasons do not exist.

Threatening people for speaking out by their Universities and the NCAA may have had a hand in some of the things….‍. Maybe….You don’t think Emma Wyent would want the National
Championship she won. I know what Riley Gains wants…she has made it very clear. My 16 and 18 year olds, and maybe my nieces newly minted 1 yr old have more emotional control than you. Telling me to STFU and name calling is very telling. You are way too emotional. Just relax.

You have made your point very clear, you do not care about the affects on Biological Girls/Women and long as Trans Girls/Women get to participate because of the Psychological, Emotionally, and other impacts it may have on them.

Biological Girls/Women…just suck it up.

It’s not fair.

 

[watfly]

Threatening people for speaking out by their Universities and the NCAA may have had a hand in some of the things….‍♂. Maybe….You don’t think Emma Wyent would want the National
Championship she won. I know what Riley Gains wants…she has made it very clear. My 16 and 18 year olds, and maybe my nieces newly minted 1 yr old have more emotional control than you. Telling me to STFU and name calling is very telling. You are way too emotional. Just relax.

You have made your point very clear, you do not care about the affects on Biological Girls/Women and long as Trans Girls/Women get to participate because of the Psychological, Emotionally, and other impacts it may have on them.

Biological Girls/Women…just suck it up.

It’s not fair.

There is an element of misogyny that underlies a lot of the rhetoric.

 

[Happened again]

Why don't you just STFU about what Emma Weyant wants, because you have no clue. More importantly, although you do know from your desperate Internet search what the bronze medalist believes, why are you hiding that? According to you was "f**ked" out of a silver medal, but she is very clearly calling out you and your transphobic friends:

"All athletes — including transgender athletes — deserve to be respected and included, exactly as we are. Throughout my life, swimming has enabled me to learn so much both in and out of the pool, and transgender athletes should not be excluded from this opportunity." She then went on to say:

"Lia Thomas has been unfairly targeted for just that - for being who she is, a transgender woman," Sullivan wrote. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labeled a cheater simply because of her identity". Sullivan then noted that, with many pressing crises emerging across the globe, time should be spent finding solutions to serious problems, rather than debating her "fellow swimmer's fundamental rights." Simply put, "transgender athletes should not be denied equal rights when compared to cisgender athletes."

Why is it that you're ignoring her? She has very plainly laid out some of the reasons that support trans participation, yet here you are continuing to pretend that these legitimate reasons do not exist.

why do you dislike women so much? it's weird.

 

[Woobie06]

OK, so now CIF, ECNL, the NCAA, the USWNT, SCOTUS, a significant number of the most important female athletes in history (Billie Jean King, Megan Rapinoe, and Candace Parker Join Nearly 200 Athletes Supporting Trans Youth Participation in Sports - Women's Sports Foundation (womenssportsfoundation.org), plus the bronze medalist (at least) in the infamous Lia Thomas race, all openly agree with me.

But even now, the transphobes here refuse to admit that a single legitimate factor exists to even weigh against their "men are men and women are women" bs.

Two simple questions….

Do you have Trans Youths Participating in sports?

Do you believe that Biological Males have a Physiological advantage over Biological Females?

 

[Woobie06]

There is an element of misogyny that underlies a lot of the rhetoric.

Are you saying I’m Misogynistic for supporting Biological Females? I would like to understand that better. That is certainly not my intent.

 

[crush]

why do you dislike women so much? it's weird.

Great question. I'm telling you all I had to deal with this man 6 years ago and no one believed me. These types use women for their gain. He actually threaten me and my daughter. He's being watched so all is safe but he's now showing his true colors to the group. He told all of you I was on medication and a crazy person. It's not true but this is the kind of men we have running girls sports. They actually want to normalize this because.

 

[watfly]

My son got screwed by the age line change through not fault of his own
My son got screwed by the ADHD thing through not fault of his own
My son's friend got screwed because of his broken back and being forced to compete with prematurely developed 12 year olds that were 6 ft high
Kids are actively being screwed in youth sports right now because we aren't hunting down testosterone and HGH cheats
Kids are actively being screwed in club soccer right now because the second team needs a viable striker, or a mom who is the manager gets entitled to special privileges, or the kid has moved from another location and is equally good but the tie breaker is the other kid has been in the position longer.
Lots of kids got screwed when we shut down the entire sports thing for COVID and some kids in California missed their recruitment year.
Hey if your kid is playing soccer in Los Angeles instead of Kansas City, your kid is being actively screwed right now because he might be an academy player in Kansas City but given LA's population can't be here.

Hunting for fairness in sports is like chasing the dragon. Particularly when it comes to youth soccer.

So for the topic at hand, who should be the arbiter of fairness in adult competitions? Someone is going to have to decide whether its more fair to allow a transgender to compete or more fair to restrict to biological gender. Fairness is a subjective standard, not an objective one.

EOTL uses the standard of "human decency" which is something we should strive to achieve within our community. However, I don't know that for high-level, adult competitive sports that human decency has ever been a standard of competition. At least, not when the object of the competition is to beat, sometimes physically, the opponent.

 

[SurFutbol]

why do you dislike women so much? it's weird.

Why do you think an elite girl can't compete in a soccer game against a trans girl? Is it because you're misogynistic?

 

[Woobie06]

why do you dislike women so much? it's weird.

I would agree with you 100% that Lia Thomas has taken the heat for just wanting to participate. I don’t blame her at all. I don’t think she “decided” to make a change to win a championship…she was being her true self…I blame the institutions, NCAA, governing body’s, the woke mob, media, and others for allowing it to play out the way it did. I use her name and situation as an example of how not to do it. I’m not blaming her, and have not made that clear.

 

[watfly]

Are you saying I’m Misogynistic for supporting Biological Females? I would like to understand that better. That is certainly not my intent.

Not directed at you Woobie06. I was mirroring your comment about others perspective of "Biological Girls/Women…just suck it up."

I'm about 95% in agreement with your comments. The one thing I could see considering would be allowing pre-puberty transitions to compete against the opposite biological gender. Pre-puberty transition is a whole other can of worms, I've seen successes and failures with that and I don't wish that decision on anyone.

 

[dad4]

Doubtful even with a conservative court...at least not without unintended consequences that spill all over the place (such as a serious gutting of Title IX's male/female balance). If you have an "open" division it directly undermines the proposition that female sports have to be treated equally....they are no longer equal...they are a subcategory akin to a disabled category of the larger "open" division". Unintended consequences. If you don't, then you are on the same footing as disabilities: if you extend accommodations for disabilities, it's hard to see how you don't for the trans, even if it's just under a proposition of separate but equal. Hard to predict, but in the US, barring the acceptance of some sort of rational compromise, or the Rs taking both houses of Congress overcoming the fillibuster and getting the Presidency, I think it comes down to a blue state/red state split. Long term, I think Europe leads the way and where they come out on things.

In any case, Title IX and women's athletics may be about to be turned on their head in the event women's football catches on in the next 3-5 years. If it does (I'm not convinced it will but I saw a demonstration in Sherman Oaks Park a few months and the players really seemed into it), soccer and volleyball in particularly are going to be greatly impacted. If I had a DD that was 5 or 6 right now and looking to direct her to a sport, I'd be looking at this carefully to see how it develops because if it takes off (a big if) it's going to turn everything over on its head.

Why expect a huge shift to the m/f balance?

The trans population is small. If the court recognizes trans as "none of the above", you go from 50/50 to 49/49/2. It's a giant change for the '2', but not a big deal for anyone else.

It may not end up there,but it would be as good compromise.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Why do you think an elite girl can't compete in a soccer game against a trans girl? Is it because you're misogynistic?

Does your shoulder hurt from patting yourself on the back so much….it’s funny how intolerant you are while insisting everyone else be tolerant.

I feel for you. Must be tough managing so many insecurities.

 

[crush]

It's only going to get worse. I warned everyone and most of you laughed at me, made fun of me and called me a whack job. It's so much worse. I wish you all the best with your daughters. I will be over at the off topic if you want to chat.

 

[SurFutbol]

I would agree with you 100% that Lia Thomas has taken the heat for just wanting to participate. I don’t blame her at all. I don’t think she “decided” to make a change to win a championship…she was being her true self…I blame the institutions, NCAA, governing body’s, the woke mob, media, and others for allowing it to play out the way it did. I use her name and situation as an example of how not to do it. I’m not blaming her, and have not made that clear.

Such crap. You have repeatedly used her as your "boogie man" to rationalize your desired mistreatment of children. You also literally said that Lia Thomas- not the NCAA - infringed on the rights of other women.

 

[SurFutbol]

Two simple questions….

Do you have Trans Youths Participating in sports?

Do you believe that Biological Males have a Physiological advantage over Biological Females?

I already answered your question about whether biological males have a physiological advantage over biological females, but I will point out the exact post as soon as you admit that biological girls virtually always have their substantial advantages over trans girls, including: (1) emotional advantages; (2) purposes for engaging in sustained levels of development and commitment that do not exist for trans girls, such as the potential for a scholarship or admission to a college using their athletic ability that would otherwise be out of reach; (3) supportive parents who are also willing to make the sustained commitment to support their child in a sport in which it is incredibly expensive and time consuming just to keep up ability-wise.