Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

dad4 said:
The new division is a good idea for individual events. For team sports, I don't see how any small institution could make it work.

I doubt the genetic anomalies sneak up on people like that. They all come with genital malformation. It seems unlikely that the doctor would fail to notice a malformed vulva every year for a decade.
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For team sports the impact of one individual is less. If they do adopt a scientific approach here’s my best uneducated guess where the studies will end up (can be completely wrong but this my gut):
-race events like swimming and track and jump events cannot be balanced
-throwing, tennis, golf and fighting events can be but only with muscle reduction therapy some tech of which is still in infancy and/or weight category rebalancing
-for most team sports either the rules changes from m t f (such as lacrosse and football) or the size of the team (soccer softball volleyball) make it so the impact of one athlete is minimal if protocols are adopted.
-some sports like fencing sailing and archery they’ll be no impact particularly with rebalancing
-some sports like equestrian gymnastics and shooting might actually be a net negative to mtf
-some sports are going to be hard cases for which there’s no good solution. Specifically thinking of basketball crew and cycling

I agree that should catch it. It doesn’t mean they will. Not every ped is giving the under 12s a full blown exam down there and not everyone is insisting on routine pediatric screenings especially post Covid. Some of the hormonal imbalances are hard to catch without blood work as well so it’s not always about physical formations.

i note as well they haven’t decided on the new division. One proposal is to have general open. The issue is it opens them up to lawsuits in several countries Especially if they have disabled categories, given the basis for the ruling (since it applies equally to ftm) is testosterone levels
 
Grace T. said:
For team sports the impact of one individual is less. If they do adopt a scientific approach here’s my best uneducated guess where the studies will end up (can be completely wrong but this my gut):
-race events like swimming and track and jump events cannot be balanced
-throwing, tennis, golf and fighting events can be but only with muscle reduction therapy some tech of which is still in infancy and/or weight category rebalancing
-for most team sports either the rules changes from m t f (such as lacrosse and football) or the size of the team (soccer softball volleyball) make it so the impact of one athlete is minimal if protocols are adopted.
-some sports like fencing sailing and archery they’ll be no impact particularly with rebalancing
-some sports like equestrian gymnastics and shooting might actually be a net negative to mtf
-some sports are going to be hard cases for which there’s no good solution. Specifically thinking of basketball crew and cycling

I agree that should catch it. It doesn’t mean they will. Not every ped is giving the under 12s a full blown exam down there and not everyone is insisting on routine pediatric screenings especially post Covid. Some of the hormonal imbalances are hard to catch without blood work as well so it’s not always about physical formations.

i note as well they haven’t decided on the new division. One proposal is to have general open. The issue is it opens them up to lawsuits in several countries Especially if they have disabled categories, given the basis for the ruling (since it applies equally to ftm) is testosterone levels
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"General open" seems to miss the point. For most sports, it is equivalent to creating a second men's division, or rebranding the existing men's division.

If your goal is to create sports opportunities for trans college students, you're better off adding coed teams or creating a trans division at larger schools.
 
dad4 said:
"General open" seems to miss the point. For most sports, it is equivalent to creating a second men's division, or rebranding the existing men's division.

If your goal is to create sports opportunities for trans college students, you're better off adding coed teams or creating a trans division at larger schools.
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If its clocked it's easier because they don't have to be at the same location.
 
thepostmillennial.com

Former NFL star speaks up for his daughters and against biological males competing in women’s sports

“Don’t make this a human rights issue – this is a biological issue. Simple as that. Trust me, I am a man,” the NFL Pro Bowler said.
thepostmillennial.com thepostmillennial.com

"And, I will say that. You all can try to Dave Chappelle me all you want. I am very clear on this. You can be a transgender. You can be the homie, but I’ll be damned if a male at birth turns into a female and tries to compete against my daughters. She ain’t out there. We out," Marcellus Wiley
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Because of COVID?
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All respiratory viruses.
plus the teachers found they don’t like schlepping the kids on buses on the weekend but rather stay home and judged the competitions from bed.
Schools don’t have to travel kids for regionals
they still have live ones but they are fewer and further between

choir is the same but band competitions (which are generally outside) are live
 
Woobie06 said:
Thanks for the reply. Did not mean to trigger you or anyone else.


Forever decisions are making changes to your body. Many of the changes are irreversible. Yes I believe in Psychology and Psychologists. The study of the mind does not change objective biological facts. Do you believe in gravity? How about natural selection, evolution, dinosaurs? You learned about that stuff in books too.

I’m not talking about kiddie youth, coed, recreational sports where Biological Sex and physiology does not play a part in the events yet. My daughter, played coed Tball, soccer, basketball, etc. as a very young girl.

I am talking about competitive sports and when physiology make a difference.

Since you are curious…I don’t care what gender somebody identifies with, or your Biological Sex is, what pronouns you use, I will call you whatever you want, just don’t get mad at me if I accidentally misgender you because I can’t read your mind and 49 years of experiences tell my brain you are a woman, I am for gay marriage (Family member is Gay and married and would not support anything that would get in the way of her living her best life and being with the person she loves), I am for people doing what they want, having personal freedoms as long as it does not infringe on others, and for people not being discriminated against. I’m absolutely pro free market, capitalism, and against socialism, communism, insider trading, fraud, trafficking, and a slew of other things. I believe Abortion should be used as a last resort in cases of harm to the mother, rape/molestation, or severe hardship, not as a form of birth control, that’s my opinion, but I also believe in Women’s rights to chose and Men should mostly stay out of the conversation. I believe in Securing our Borders, but feel we need have better programs for Asylum Seekers, I believe we need to do more for our Homeless problem, affordable housing, and I believe Fentynal is a huge issue for our kids. I believe our funding Ukraine is a mistake, think you should salute the American Flag, not kneel…Biden/Harris are buffoons, Trump is not the answer, we should have term limits, politicians should not enrich themselves, Fauci should be in jail, and many others. I mostly believe in liberty and people being able to live their lives the way they want without unwanted government oversight and intervention. People should be evaluated on who they are and what they do, not by their outward appearances.

And I believe in Santa Clause because if you don’t believe you won’t receive.

I am very much against Biological Males competing against Biological Females in Competitive Sports based on the physical advantage Biological Males have. There are Biological and Genetic Facts that support this. Does not matter the sport. I am not phobic, paranoid, or hateful. I have a different view than you.

It’s funny how some people are so intolerant and emotional regarding other peoples beliefs if they differ from their own. Because I believe that Biological Males have an advantage over Biological Females, or I believe a Scientific Text Book or what I learned in school or maybe even heaven forbid the Bible…I also Google and search the internet for information, read, etc.


This is keeping me entertained…home sick the last couple of days.
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The only people who are triggered by any of this are the whiny Karens who are complaining about the existing rules and eligibility requirements set by CIF, ECNL, the NCAA and others. I mean, seriously, you have lost your mind on this issue so thoroughly that you're talking in a kiddie soccer website about your views on abortion, kneeling for the flag, immigration and fentanyl. Talk about triggered.

Also, the only person being intolerant is you. I'm perfectly cool when trans children not being treated like shit, unlike you. I don't make incorrect assumptions that trans children are elite male athletes, nor do I have some pathetic belief that winning and losing at kiddie sports is so important in this world that we need to deviate from free market capitalism to prevent private companies from setting their own participation rules.
 
Woobie06 said:
“People like you” you don’t even know me…Since your assuming things about me, I’ll assume you drive a Subaru with a Bernie sticker on it. That was a joke….

The Lia Thomas situation is very appropriate to bring up and in this conversation. Her Biological advantages enabled her to win a championship and set records in competitive sports.

Do you want Lia Thomas excluded from the conversation because it is the most singularly appropriate example of Biological Males having physical advantages over Biological Females in sports? You can’t chose which facts to include and exclude. Opportunities for Biological Women were taken, and that’s ok?
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Lia Thomas is not the "most singularly appropriate example of Biological Males having physical advantages over Biological Females in sports." In reality, she is an extreme example of a trans woman that you have to rationalize why you support the mistreatment and abuse of children. In the entire history of soccer, there have been a number of trans girls, who are actually representative of trans participation in that sport because, uh, they actually played it. And go figure, never in the history of the entire planet has a trans girl ever dominated elite girls soccer. Never in the entire history of planet earth has a trans girl ever been the best player on her own soccer team. You are so pathetic that you need to point to a college swimmer to rationalize why a 12 year old trans girl not only should be prohibited from playing soccer with girls, but should be forced to be subjected to abuse and harassment playing with boys. You cannot identify a single trans girl or woman in the entire history of soccer to use as an example of unfairness because you don't have one, because there has never been one.
 
dad4 said:
The new FINA standards are sound, and they work.

Up to 12, the rules are relaxed. After 12, the rules are strict. If you didn't begin transition before 12, then you are not allowed to enter a women's events.

The main limitation is that other sports have not adopted them.
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Nor has CIF.
 
SurFutbol said:
Lia Thomas is not the "most singularly appropriate example of Biological Males having physical advantages over Biological Females in sports." In reality, she is an extreme example of a trans woman that you have to rationalize why you support the mistreatment and abuse of children. In the entire history of soccer, there have been a number of trans girls, who are actually representative of trans participation in that sport because, uh, they actually played it. And go figure, never in the history of the entire planet has a trans girl ever dominated elite girls soccer. Never in the entire history of planet earth has a trans girl ever been the best player on her own soccer team. You are so pathetic that you need to point to a college swimmer to rationalize why a 12 year old trans girl not only should be prohibited from playing soccer with girls, but should be forced to be subjected to abuse and harassment playing with boys. You cannot identify a single trans girl or woman in the entire history of soccer to use as an example of unfairness because you don't have one, because there has never been one.
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It's CHEATING !

Nothing anyone says can change that.

YOU CANNOT MAKE A MAN A WOMAN !

Born a male, play male sports. Period.

You are facilitating the THEFT of Biological WOMENS
advancements in all SPORTS.
 
thirteenknots said:
It's CHEATING !

Nothing anyone says can change that.

YOU CANNOT MAKE A MAN A WOMAN !

Born a male, play male sports. Period.

You are facilitating the THEFT of Biological WOMENS
advancements in all SPORTS.
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It must drive you absolutely crazy that little trans children are running around dominating kiddie sports and ruining the fabric of our great nation. Ha ha ha.
 
dad4 said:
I know. It’s a shame. Maybe SCOTUS will restore Title IX rights in a meaningful way.
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Too bad for you that Gorsuch and Roberts have already ruled that federal protections based on "sex" doesn't just protect whiny Karens, but also trans women.
 
dad4 said:
I know. It’s a shame. Maybe SCOTUS will restore Title IX rights in a meaningful way.
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Doubtful even with a conservative court...at least not without unintended consequences that spill all over the place (such as a serious gutting of Title IX's male/female balance). If you have an "open" division it directly undermines the proposition that female sports have to be treated equally....they are no longer equal...they are a subcategory akin to a disabled category of the larger "open" division". Unintended consequences. If you don't, then you are on the same footing as disabilities: if you extend accommodations for disabilities, it's hard to see how you don't for the trans, even if it's just under a proposition of separate but equal. Hard to predict, but in the US, barring the acceptance of some sort of rational compromise, or the Rs taking both houses of Congress overcoming the fillibuster and getting the Presidency, I think it comes down to a blue state/red state split. Long term, I think Europe leads the way and where they come out on things.

In any case, Title IX and women's athletics may be about to be turned on their head in the event women's football catches on in the next 3-5 years. If it does (I'm not convinced it will but I saw a demonstration in Sherman Oaks Park a few months and the players really seemed into it), soccer and volleyball in particularly are going to be greatly impacted. If I had a DD that was 5 or 6 right now and looking to direct her to a sport, I'd be looking at this carefully to see how it develops because if it takes off (a big if) it's going to turn everything over on its head.
 
Grace T. said:
Doubtful even with a conservative court...at least not without unintended consequences that spill all over the place (such as a serious gutting of Title IX's male/female balance). If you have an "open" division it directly undermines the proposition that female sports have to be treated equally....they are no longer equal...they are a subcategory akin to a disabled category of the larger "open" division". Unintended consequences. If you don't, then you are on the same footing as disabilities: if you extend accommodations for disabilities, it's hard to see how you don't for the trans, even if it's just under a proposition of separate but equal. Hard to predict, but in the US, barring the acceptance of some sort of rational compromise, or the Rs taking both houses of Congress overcoming the fillibuster and getting the Presidency, I think it comes down to a blue state/red state split. Long term, I think Europe leads the way and where they come out on things.

In any case, Title IX and women's athletics may be about to be turned on their head in the event women's football catches on in the next 3-5 years. If it does (I'm not convinced it will but I saw a demonstration in Sherman Oaks Park a few months and the players really seemed into it), soccer and volleyball in particularly are going to be greatly impacted. If I had a DD that was 5 or 6 right now and looking to direct her to a sport, I'd be looking at this carefully to see how it develops because if it takes off (a big if) it's going to turn everything over on its head.
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p.s. universities have been looking to kill the equality principle in Title IX for a while now to free up more money for their football and basketball programs. There's been talk about maybe shifting to a salaried system, the chief stumbling block is Title IX since the salaries do not seem to make economic sense for women's athletics, which are generally more unpopular with the general public. Women's football, if it takes off, has been in part pushed by universities (which want consolidated costs and departments) and the NFL (which wants moms pushing their kids into a new generation of viewers). Why you'd hand SCOTUS a knife that could potentially rework Title IX to the benefit of the university interests, in order to kill this flea, is beyond me....
 
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