Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[dad4]

Doubtful even with a conservative court...at least not without unintended consequences that spill all over the place (such as a serious gutting of Title IX's male/female balance). If you have an "open" division it directly undermines the proposition that female sports have to be treated equally....they are no longer equal...they are a subcategory akin to a disabled category of the larger "open" division". Unintended consequences. If you don't, then you are on the same footing as disabilities: if you extend accommodations for disabilities, it's hard to see how you don't for the trans, even if it's just under a proposition of separate but equal. Hard to predict, but in the US, barring the acceptance of some sort of rational compromise, or the Rs taking both houses of Congress overcoming the fillibuster and getting the Presidency, I think it comes down to a blue state/red state split. Long term, I think Europe leads the way and where they come out on things.

In any case, Title IX and women's athletics may be about to be turned on their head in the event women's football catches on in the next 3-5 years. If it does (I'm not convinced it will but I saw a demonstration in Sherman Oaks Park a few months and the players really seemed into it), soccer and volleyball in particularly are going to be greatly impacted. If I had a DD that was 5 or 6 right now and looking to direct her to a sport, I'd be looking at this carefully to see how it develops because if it takes off (a big if) it's going to turn everything over on its head.

Why a serious gutting of the male/female balance? Perhaps it goes from 50/50 to 49/49/2. That's drift, not gutting. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

The bigger risk is if money sport athletes win the right to be paid a salary. That would definitely mean fewer scholarship opportunities for women athletes. But it would be a fairer system.

 

[watfly]

Too bad for you that Gorsuch and Roberts have already ruled that federal protections based on "sex" doesn't just protect whiny, Karens demanding or entitled White woman, but also trans women.

Stanford Tackles The Pejorative, "Karen"

Stanford's Harmful Language Initiative discourages the use of the term "Karen" because it is "Imprecise Language" but fails to acknowledge that it also is sexist and racist.

www.injusticeatwork.com

Your Mom birthing person must be so proud…..

Biden Admin Replaces 'Mothers' With 'Birthing People' in Maternal

"Why does Biden want to cancel mothers?" one critic of Biden's budget said of the linguistic change.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Woobie06]

The only people who are triggered by any of this are the whiny Karens who are complaining about the existing rules and eligibility requirements set by CIF, ECNL, the NCAA and others. I mean, seriously, you have lost your mind on this issue so thoroughly that you're talking in a kiddie soccer website about your views on abortion, kneeling for the flag, immigration and fentanyl. Talk about triggered.

Also, the only person being intolerant is you. I'm perfectly cool when trans children not being treated like shit, unlike you. I don't make incorrect assumptions that trans children are elite male athletes, nor do I have some pathetic belief that winning and losing at kiddie sports is so important in this world that we need to deviate from free market capitalism to prevent private companies from setting their own participation rules.

Having different beliefs and opinions is not intolerance. Not respecting, listening, and considering others perspectives is. You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I have said I am against it in competitive sports where the physiology does matter with Biological Males against Biological Females. In young youth sports where physiology does not matter yet, I don’t have any issue at all. Let them all play.

Biological Males have a advantage over Biological Females in competitive sports…based on their physiology. That is a fact and you choosing not to believe it, does not make it untrue. IF, there was a way to level and equal the playing field and Biological Males did NOT have advantages over Biological Females I would not have a problem with direct competition. As long as the advantage exists I am against it. That does not mean I am anti Trans. I am all for everyone doing what they want unless it infringes on the opportunities of others. Which again, the Lia Thomas situation certainly did. I respect your opinions, beliefs, and perspectives, but do not agree with you.

BTW….How many stickers on your Subaru…I’m taking bets on the over under at 5.5?

 

[Grace T.]

Why a serious gutting of the male/female balance? Perhaps it goes from 50/50 to 49/49/2. That's drift, not gutting. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

The bigger risk is if money sport athletes win the right to be paid a salary. That would definitely mean fewer scholarship opportunities for women athletes. But it would be a fairer system.

I agree the bigger risk is the paid salary but the Title IX argument would be that it's still ancillary to attending school. That's assuming Title IX remains in tact. While the science has been moving in the direction that you cannot balance, legally the opponents have been increasingly painted into a corner.

As ETOL pointed out, the Supreme Court has already ruled for Title VII purposes LGTBQ is a protected category. In addition, several circuits that have ruled on it have additionally ruled gender dysphoria is a disability for which accommodations need to be extended. So it's not as legally simple as just waiving our hands and say dump them into the men's category (which we know they can't compete against....plus there's the ticking time bomb of the FTMs that's been neglected for a while). It's been established they have rights. So, if you have an open division, the division does not necessarily have to be 49/49/2. If women are a subclass, akin to the disabled, unable to compete in the open division, then it blows up the equality principle en total...it could be 56 open/44 women's or 60 open/40 women's....there's no principle it has to be proportionate because of another painting into the corner: the argument was already used that more men played but the courts didn't buy it at the inception of title IX. If there's not an open division, then you have to extend reasonable accommodations to the extent practical. You can't just ignore it because it's been established already they have legal rights, and neither the FTMs or MTFs can compete in a cis male division. The argument then becomes what those accommodations look like. Hypothetically, for example, in a race it could be a "head start" of so many minutes if you keep them in the men's division on track....so much for the meritocracy....another hypothetical is separate but equal....another is it doesn't make a difference in the team sports. What that accommodation looks like (from fig leaf to one that has teeth) in part depends on the court composition, but there will be something. An "open" division, by contrast, would be disastrous for women's sports and completely gut the equity principle in title IX.

 

[SurFutbol]

Your Mom must be so proud…..

Did you think that up all by yourself? It must be so hard losing sleep that ECNL, CIF, the NCAA, and also Neil Gorsuch, John Roberts, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson (aka a majority of SCOTUS) agree with me.

 

[watfly]

BTW….How many stickers on your Subaru…I’m taking bets on the over under at 5.5?

 

[thirteenknots]

Did you think that up all by yourself? It must be so hard losing sleep that ECNL, CIF, the NCAA, and also Neil Gorsuch, John Roberts, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson (aka a majority of SCOTUS) agree with me.

Just because you cite EVIL doesn't make it Fair/True.

MTF in Women's sports is CHEATING.

 

[Woobie06]

Did you think that up all by yourself? It must be so hard losing sleep that ECNL, CIF, the NCAA, and also Neil Gorsuch, John Roberts, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson (aka a majority of SCOTUS) agree with me.

Does not make it the best course of action…Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court recently, do you agree with that? All the Vaccine lies told by the government and CDC, WHO, NHS…c’mon citing Federal Govt Policy makers and judges as the source of “truth” is kinda funny. Judges write OPINIONS based on the laws and they change….often. I know I can find 5 or 6 people that agree with me.

Public Trust in Government: 1958-2023

Public trust in government remains low, as it has for much of the 21st century. Only two-in-ten Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right “just about always” (2%) or “most of the time” (19%).

www.pewresearch.org

Believe me…there are not many people losing sleep on this. Everyone has an opinion. Like for example you like Subaru’s and I more than likely like a Truck… I am enjoying the dialogue, and Grace T and Dad4 got a little testy for a bit, and seemed to have had a beer and made up and there are some interesting perspectives coming out of it. That’s cool and there are some things I have not considered or thought about.

Lighten up Francis, it’s gonna be ok.

 

[SurFutbol]

Having different beliefs and opinions is not intolerance. Not respecting, listening, and considering others perspectives is. You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I have said I am against it in competitive sports where the physiology does matter with Biological Males against Biological Females. In young youth sports where physiology does not matter yet, I don’t have any issue at all. Let them all play.

Biological Males have a advantage over Biological Females in competitive sports…based on their physiology. That is a fact and you choosing not to believe it, does not make it untrue. IF, there was a way to level and equal the playing field and Biological Males did NOT have advantages over Biological Females I would not have a problem with direct competition. As long as the advantage exists I am against it. That does not mean I am anti Trans. I am all for everyone doing what they want unless it infringes on the opportunities of others. Which again, the Lia Thomas situation certainly did. I respect your opinions, beliefs, and perspectives, but do not agree with you.

BTW….How many stickers on your Subaru…I’m taking bets on the over under at 5.5?

You have made a number of the same incorrect assumptions that all transphobes make.

1. "I am against it in competitive sports where the physiology does matter". - You ignore the real issues, which are: (1) the extent to which physiology matters more than human decency; and (2) the extent to which ALL of the relevant factors and not just the ones you pick and choose weigh against each other. You ignore that there is a lot more to a child's soccer prowess than physiology. You completely ignore the emotional and other factors where trans children are placed at a huge disadvantage. You also ignore that no trans girl in history has even ever been the best player on their own team. The fact that you won't even attempt to weigh the disadvantages that a trans child has with the purported "advantages" they have physiologically is also very telling. Of course you won't, because like all other transphobes, you can't even acknowledge the humanity of trans children. It is crazy that you see being trans as all "advantages", but the reality is that is a transphobic pathetic piece of shit point of view. If you were serious about any of this, you would acknowledge there are also massive disadvantages for a trans child playing sports, but you won't, because you know the end result of actually weighing all the relevant factors is that me, ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and a majority of the even the most conservative freakin' US Supreme Court since slavery was legal agrees with me.

2. "You choosing not to believe it, does not make it untrue." - This is a fake bs argument that you and your friends keep making, and must keep making, to rationalize that actual fact that you are choosing not to believe any of the important disadvantages that trans children face that offset any physiological advantages. I have said here, for example, at least 10x that I was not a fan of the NCAA's swim rules and I have no problem with changing the rules based on what happened with Ms. Thomas. The reality here is that I actually do weigh all the factors, and my position is actually pretty middle of the road. The only ones here who choose not to believe that any justifications on the other side should even be considered come from the transphobic side that includes you.

3. "That does not mean I am anti Trans." - The fact that you refuse to weigh any of the disadvantages that trans children face in sports, the fact that you can only perceive a purported physical advantage despite no evidence whatsoever that any trans girl has ever been even the best player on her own team, rather definitively shows that you are anti-trans. The fact that you completely ignore that awful transphobic commentary by your compadres without any criticism whatsoever, but instead go after someone who (as I stated earlier) agrees with ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and a majority of the US Supreme Court, is also pretty anti-trans.

4. Trans participation "infringes on the opportunities of others." That is ridiculous with respect to kiddie or even NCAA soccer. You can't point to a single instance in which the result of a single game was ever changed because a trans girl participated in comp soccer. You can't point to a single instance in which a biological girl lost out on a scholarship or a college offer because of a trans girl, because it has never happened. You can only claim that a trans girl playing in a game must have meant that a non-trans girl lost some minutes. But that also ignores that she lost minutes because of 10x as many cis girls on her team.

 

[crush]

Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court recently, do you agree with that?

I agreed with that decision100% Baby crush just wanted a chance at life and so do all the other babies. Carry on Woobie. Great discussions btw and it's what makes America great, the gr8t debates in the squares and pubs.....

 

[SurFutbol]

Does not make it the best course of action…Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court recently, do you agree with that? All the Vaccine lies told by the government and CDC, WHO, NHS…c’mon citing Federal Govt Policy makers and judges as the source of “truth” is kinda funny. Judges write OPINIONS based on the laws and they change….often. I know I can find 5 or 6 people that agree with me.

Public Trust in Government: 1958-2023

Public trust in government remains low, as it has for much of the 21st century. Only two-in-ten Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right “just about always” (2%) or “most of the time” (19%).

www.pewresearch.org

Believe me…there are not many people losing sleep on this. Everyone has an opinion. Like for example you like Subaru’s and I more than likely like a Truck… I am enjoying the dialogue, and Grace T and Dad4 got a little testy for a bit, and seemed to have had a beer and made up and there are some interesting perspectives coming out of it. That’s cool and there are some things I have not considered or thought about.

Lighten up Francis, it’s gonna be ok.

Abortions and vaccines have nothing to do with any of this. The reality is that the vast majority of court decisions are the right ones by any objective standard, and that was one of them. How exactly do you rationalize your accusation that SCOTUS reached the wrong result in a decision when you don't even know what the case was, let alone what was said in the opinion? You're just a whiny Karen who complains every time you don't get the result you want in a court decision, but all you have to say is "I don't like the result, so therefore it must be wrong." The mere fact that you are lamenting a US Supreme Court result that supports transgender rights without knowing a single freakin' thing about it is pretty definitive proof that you are transphobic.

You clearly have no interest in a meaningful debate about any of this.

 

[Grace T.]

Does not make it the best course of action…Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court recently, do you agree with that? All the Vaccine lies told by the government and CDC, WHO, NHS…c’mon citing Federal Govt Policy makers and judges as the source of “truth” is kinda funny. Judges write OPINIONS based on the laws and they change….often. I know I can find 5 or 6 people that agree with me.

Public Trust in Government: 1958-2023

Public trust in government remains low, as it has for much of the 21st century. Only two-in-ten Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right “just about always” (2%) or “most of the time” (19%).

www.pewresearch.org

Believe me…there are not many people losing sleep on this. Everyone has an opinion. Like for example you like Subaru’s and I more than likely like a Truck… I am enjoying the dialogue, and Grace T and Dad4 got a little testy for a bit, and seemed to have had a beer and made up and there are some interesting perspectives coming out of it. That’s cool and there are some things I have not considered or thought about.

Lighten up Francis, it’s gonna be ok.

I'd just warn be careful what you wish for. If we wind up separate but equal, then trans athletes will be entitled to equivalent scholarship money taken from both genders (but which if women's football takes off will be much more severe on the girls) where right now it's almost (is?) impossible for them to get any. If we wind up with an open division, the principle of equality between mens and women's sports will be shattered because women will become a lesser subcategory of the open one, akin to disability. If we wind up in accommodations in men's sports, the vaunted meritocracy will go by the wayside (if you are going to go the golf route and start handicapping sports). You gotta put them somewhere. I don't see any scenario (short of the "open" division, since as dad4 pointed out, even FINA has rejected inclusion in a men's division) where they get dumped with the cis men and it's just too bad so sad. And I wouldn't be surprised if the shocker comes from a FTM as opposed to MTF, which as you pointed out, have been long neglected. Kinda like winning the battle, but losing the war, and shooting yourself in the foot in the process.

 

[Woobie06]

You have made a number of the same incorrect assumptions that all transphobes make.

1. "I am against it in competitive sports where the physiology does matter". - You ignore the real issues, which are: (1) the extent to which physiology matters more than human decency; and (2) the extent to which ALL of the relevant factors and not just the ones you pick and choose weigh against each other. You ignore that there is a lot more to a child's soccer prowess than physiology. You completely ignore the emotional and other factors where trans children are placed at a huge disadvantage. You also ignore that no trans girl in history has even ever been the best player on their own team. The fact that you won't even attempt to weigh the disadvantages that a trans child has with the purported "advantages" they have physiologically is also very telling. Of course you won't, because like all other transphobes, you can't even acknowledge the humanity of trans children. It is crazy that you see being trans as all "advantages", but the reality is that is a transphobic pathetic piece of shit point of view. If you were serious about any of this, you would acknowledge there are also massive disadvantages for a trans child playing sports, but you won't, because you know the end result of actually weighing all the relevant factors is that me, ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and a majority of the even the most conservative freakin' US Supreme Court since slavery was legal agrees with me.

2. "You choosing not to believe it, does not make it untrue." - This is a fake bs argument that you and your friends keep making, and must keep making, to rationalize that actual fact that you are choosing not to believe any of the important disadvantages that trans children face that offset any physiological advantages. I have said here, for example, at least 10x that I was not a fan of the NCAA's swim rules and I have no problem with changing the rules based on what happened with Ms. Thomas. The reality here is that I actually do weigh all the factors, and my position is actually pretty middle of the road. The only ones here who choose not to believe that any justifications on the other side should even be considered come from the transphobic side that includes you.

3. "That does not mean I am anti Trans." - The fact that you refuse to weigh any of the disadvantages that trans children face in sports, the fact that you can only perceive a purported physical advantage despite no evidence whatsoever that any trans girl has ever been even the best player on her own team, rather definitively shows that you are anti-trans. The fact that you completely ignore that awful transphobic commentary by your compadres without any criticism whatsoever, but instead go after someone who (as I stated earlier) agrees with ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and a majority of the US Supreme Court, is also pretty anti-trans.

4. Trans participation "infringes on the opportunities of others." That is ridiculous with respect to kiddie or even NCAA soccer. You can't point to a single instance in which the result of a single game was ever changed because a trans girl participated in comp soccer. You can't point to a single instance in which a biological girl lost out on a scholarship or a college offer because of a trans girl, because it has never happened. You can only claim that a trans girl playing in a game must have meant that a non-trans girl lost some minutes. But that also ignores that she lost minutes because of 10x as many cis girls on her team.

You start with the name calling….calling me a trans phobe and others…ok, it is what it is…why? I’m not. I’m not scared of or hate people. What have I said negative about a trans person here? You have have called me names and I joked about your Subaru. That’s all good. Because I disagree with you, communicate it, does make my speech violent, phobic, discriminatory or anything like that. I’m allowed opinions just like you.

Yes, Lia Thomas did infringe on others. She won a National Championship and Emma Wyent finished second 1.75 seconds behind. It also forced the 3rd Place Biological Women out of the Medal. Unless I am wrong, the NCAA has not made this right with Medals for these young Women. Was this because of Lia Thomas’ Biological Male Physiological advantage that she won? You bet. 100%. That young lady worked most of her life to win a championship. It was stolen from her. That’s my issue….not kiddie, bow, ice cream, orange slice, gummi bear, or goldfish little kid sports.

This kid got f’d…that is not fair, and that’s my point…do you think this is right or fair? I don’t want anything that creates these types of situations.

If your argument is to let it go until something bad happens and then we will fix it…like in swimming, I just don’t agree. Make it right at the start. Until it is fair and equal from the start I will not support it and Biological Men in Biological Women’s Competitive Sports is not a fair endeavor.

Any studies on what the kids or the actual participants think? Anybody ask Emma Wyent how she feels?

 

[SurFutbol]

Does not make it the best course of action…Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court recently, do you agree with that? All the Vaccine lies told by the government and CDC, WHO, NHS…c’mon citing Federal Govt Policy makers and judges as the source of “truth” is kinda funny. Judges write OPINIONS based on the laws and they change….often. I know I can find 5 or 6 people that agree with me.

Public Trust in Government: 1958-2023

Public trust in government remains low, as it has for much of the 21st century. Only two-in-ten Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right “just about always” (2%) or “most of the time” (19%).

www.pewresearch.org

Believe me…there are not many people losing sleep on this. Everyone has an opinion. Like for example you like Subaru’s and I more than likely like a Truck… I am enjoying the dialogue, and Grace T and Dad4 got a little testy for a bit, and seemed to have had a beer and made up and there are some interesting perspectives coming out of it. That’s cool and there are some things I have not considered or thought about.

Lighten up Francis, it’s gonna be ok.

It's not surprising that people don't trust government. You, for example, have made it very clear that if you don't like the ultimate result, you don't care one bit about the reasoning or legitimacy of a court ruling. Instead, you just proclaim that the government entity responsible for the law or opinion you don't like must be wrong, without any clue at all about what the law or opinion actually says or its reasoning. The problem with this distrust of government has nothing to do with the government, and everything to do with people like you. You want all policies and law to be a la carte and to your liking, and anything that isn't must be a "conspiracy" by a "corrupt" government.

You're a clueless clown.

 

[Woobie06]

Abortions and vaccines have nothing to do with any of this. The reality is that the vast majority of court decisions are the right ones by any objective standard, and that was one of them. How exactly do you rationalize your accusation that SCOTUS reached the wrong result in a decision when you don't even know what the case was, let alone what was said in the opinion? You're just a whiny Karen who complains every time you don't get the result you want in a court decision, but all you have to say is "I don't like the result, so therefore it must be wrong." The mere fact that you are lamenting a US Supreme Court result that supports transgender rights without knowing a single freakin' thing about it is pretty definitive proof that you are transphobic.

You clearly have no interest in a meaningful debate about any of this.

Name calling, name calling….I’m not complaining about anything, I have a different opinion than you. Why does that make you so angry? You are very angry. I’m not angry at you. I just don’t agree with you. I would prefer Whiny Ken because I am a Biological Male and Identify as one. You misgendered me and it hurts a bit. Good luck. Meditate, and work on the anger. BTW…what is the real sticker count?

 

[Grace T.]

If your argument is to let it go until something bad happens and then we will fix it…like in swimming, I just don’t agree. Make it right at the start. Until it is fair and equal from the start I will not support it and Biological Men in Biological Women’s Competitive Sports is not a fair endeavor.

Your ask is impossible right now. There isn't enough data. It's only been in the last 10 years (a chunk of that disrupted by COVID) that it's come to light the long standing accommodations (which date to the 80s and 90s) might not be balanced in all sports.

Think of the data points we need to be sure: there are so few transgendered athletes and you have to analyze it for each accommodation (x dates from hormones, x dates from testosterone blockers, x date from surgery) for each sport. Then there are the philosophical questions: if Lebron for example, were to become transgendered, given how dominant he is in male sports, no doubt he'll have to be dominant as well in female sports....so can a transgendered athlete ever be the "best"....theoretically it should match the bell distribution for the female population but there simply aren't enough data points to establish that.

Our best and least disruptive hope is that we can balance things. Because dumping them into the cis male category isn't "fair" either (they can't compete there against men actively on performance enhancing drugs of testosterone) and as a result is probably legally questionable. It leaves you with the hard choices FINA is faced with: an open division (that will relegate women's sports to a permanently lesser and unequal division), a trans division (which must be funded and which is probably impossible for team sports), dumping them into the men but with the men engaged in a handicap (which destroys the meritocracy).

It's the dilemma of no good choices, but dad4 notwithstanding, dump them all (regardless of which direction they are moving) into the men is probably not viable, morally fair, or legal.

 

[Woobie06]

I'd just warn be careful what you wish for. If we wind up separate but equal, then trans athletes will be entitled to equivalent scholarship money taken from both genders (but which if women's football takes off will be much more severe on the girls) where right now it's almost (is?) impossible for them to get any. If we wind up with an open division, the principle of equality between mens and women's sports will be shattered because women will become a lesser subcategory of the open one, akin to disability. If we wind up in accommodations in men's sports, the vaunted meritocracy will go by the wayside (if you are going to go the golf route and start handicapping sports). You gotta put them somewhere. I don't see any scenario (short of the "open" division, since as dad4 pointed out, even FINA has rejected inclusion in a men's division) where they get dumped with the cis men and it's just too bad so sad. And I wouldn't be surprised if the shocker comes from a FTM as opposed to MTF, which as you pointed out, have been long neglected. Kinda like winning the battle, but losing the war, and shooting yourself in the foot in the process.

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

 

[SurFutbol]

You start with the name calling….calling me a trans phobe and others…ok, it is what it is…why? I’m not. I’m not scared of or hate people. What have I said negative about a trans person here? You have have called me names and I joked about your Subaru. That’s all good. Because I disagree with you, communicate it, does make my speech violent, phobic, discriminatory or anything like that. I’m allowed opinions just like you.

Yes, Lia Thomas did infringe on others. She won a National Championship and Emma Wyent finished second 1.75 seconds behind. It also forced the 3rd Place Biological Women out of the Medal. Unless I am wrong, the NCAA has not made this right with Medals for these young Women. Was this because of Lia Thomas’ Biological Male Physiological advantage that she won? You bet. 100%. That young lady worked most of her life to win a championship. It was stolen from her. That’s my issue….not kiddie, bow, ice cream, orange slice, gummi bear, or goldfish little kid sports.

This kid got f’d…that is not fair, and that’s my point…do you think this is right or fair? I don’t want anything that creates these types of situations.

If your argument is to let it go until something bad happens and then we will fix it…like in swimming, I just don’t agree. Make it right at the start. Until it is fair and equal from the start I will not support it and Biological Men in Biological Women’s Competitive Sports is not a fair endeavor.

Any studies on what the kids or the actual participants think? Anybody ask Emma Wyent how she feels?

I have explained very clearly why you are transphobic, which you are. I have given you every opportunity to weigh ALL the pros and cons with respect to whether a 13 year old trans should (or should not) be allowed to play with other girls - instead of just the ones that militate against - but you can't even accept that there are any pros to weigh against your "cons". You never will, because going down the road of actually weighing the pros and cons requires you to consider the actual humanity involved, including that real world implications of your decision on the interests of trans children. You believe that your 14 year old daughter maybe winning a trophy in a kiddie sport is more important than trans children often being able to avoid tremendous abuse being forced to play with other boys. You know in the end that is a pathetic, unempathetic and pretty vile position to take. There are only a couple ways for transphobes like yourself to rationalize this. One is to claim that being trans is wrong and that trans people and their parents are bad people, so it's ok to treat bad people like shit. The variation on this, and what you are doing, is to pretend that trans kids aren't entitled to have any interests in this matter. So long as you can deny their reality and humanity by continuing to pretend there is only one "fact" that is relevant - that a trans girls is more athletic than they would have been if they were born a biological girl - you can ignore every single factor that supports trans participation and delude yourself that your position won't cause actual and severe harm to children.

You know how Emma Weyant responded. You scoured the Internet without success looking for something to suggest she was angry, which is why you decided to "just ask a question" to support your bs. But that still doesn't change the fact that this has nothing to do with whether a 13 year old trans girl should be allowed to play with other girls knowing the abuse she will suffer if she must participate with the boys and endure their harassment, along with that of their shitbag transphobic parents. But I'm sure that pales in comparison to the horrible emotional impact that Emma Weyant must have suffered because she only got a silver medal, right? She'll probably never recover from this, am I right?

 

[Grace T.]

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

My son got screwed by the age line change through not fault of his own
My son got screwed by the ADHD thing through not fault of his own
My son's friend got screwed because of his broken back and being forced to compete with prematurely developed 12 year olds that were 6 ft high
Kids are actively being screwed in youth sports right now because we aren't hunting down testosterone and HGH cheats
Kids are actively being screwed in club soccer right now because the second team needs a viable striker, or a mom who is the manager gets entitled to special privileges, or the kid has moved from another location and is equally good but the tie breaker is the other kid has been in the position longer.
Lots of kids got screwed when we shut down the entire sports thing for COVID and some kids in California missed their recruitment year.
Hey if your kid is playing soccer in Los Angeles instead of Kansas City, your kid is being actively screwed right now because he might be an academy player in Kansas City but given LA's population can't be here.

Hunting for fairness in sports is like chasing the dragon. Particularly when it comes to youth soccer.

 

[SurFutbol]

You bring up some good points. The whole thing actually sucks for all the athletes and kids involved. You are 100% correct.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don’t want a person like Emma Wyent getting screwed through no fault of her own based on an unfair playing field. You can’t can’t take away Biological Women’s opportunities because a Biological Male identifies a specific way. Your physiology does not change based on what you believe or feel.

Why don't you just STFU about what Emma Weyant wants, because you have no clue. More importantly, although you do know from your desperate Internet search what the bronze medalist believes, why are you hiding that? According to you was "f**ked" out of a silver medal, but she is very clearly calling out you and your transphobic friends:

"All athletes — including transgender athletes — deserve to be respected and included, exactly as we are. Throughout my life, swimming has enabled me to learn so much both in and out of the pool, and transgender athletes should not be excluded from this opportunity." She then went on to say:

"Lia Thomas has been unfairly targeted for just that - for being who she is, a transgender woman," Sullivan wrote. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labeled a cheater simply because of her identity". Sullivan then noted that, with many pressing crises emerging across the globe, time should be spent finding solutions to serious problems, rather than debating her "fellow swimmer's fundamental rights." Simply put, "transgender athletes should not be denied equal rights when compared to cisgender athletes."

Why is it that you're ignoring her? She has very plainly laid out some of the reasons that support trans participation, yet here you are continuing to pretend that these legitimate reasons do not exist.