You've made it pretty clear from the offensive manner by which you refer to trans children that you're transphobic. You and your friends have also made it very clear how important it is to have inclusive policies for trans girls in youth sports, so thank you for that.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
You've made it pretty clear from the offensive manner by which you refer to trans children that you're transphobic. You and your friends have also made it very clear how important it is to have inclusive policies for trans girls in youth sports, so thank you for that.
As predicted, calling people transphobe.
As I said, it is your go-to argument. If someone thinks you are wrong, accuse them of bigotry.
The truth is what it is. I'm a bit surprised you're pushing back on this but, then again, David Duke also denied being racist.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Ha! I love lectures about "truth" from a poster that changes "they" screen name every few months. The causes "they" support are diminished by what "they" represent. What a fraud.
GLangevinito
SILVER
So far, SurFutbol and Grace's arguments have presented in no solutions other that "too bad for the natural born girls". Oh, and name calling.
I don't accept that.
The LGBT community spent a long time convincing people that people are born gay, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's exactly the opposite for trans people. They tell us that they feel like they were born the wrong sex, and there is no way to confirm these feelings, so we accept them. I'm completely fine with all this - until their feelings result in a sudden and unfair advantage that takes opportunities away from others.
If I feel like I was born the wrong race, should I be eligible for affirmative action help?
I'm all for personal freedom, you do you. But that stops when your freedom to choose negatively impacts someone else.
I don't accept that.
The LGBT community spent a long time convincing people that people are born gay, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's exactly the opposite for trans people. They tell us that they feel like they were born the wrong sex, and there is no way to confirm these feelings, so we accept them. I'm completely fine with all this - until their feelings result in a sudden and unfair advantage that takes opportunities away from others.
If I feel like I was born the wrong race, should I be eligible for affirmative action help?
I'm all for personal freedom, you do you. But that stops when your freedom to choose negatively impacts someone else.
GLangevinito
SILVER
How are they not athletes? At what age do you start calling them athletes?
Of course the W's and the L's don't really matter. No one but you have advanced that straw man.
What matters is FAIRNESS. And competition. And opportunities. College scouts don't care about wins, but they can't evaluate a kid who is on the bench. While you are bending over backwards to try and accommodate the wishes of a trans girl to play a sport at the highest level with a biological advantage, you are pushing someone aside. That's not fair.
Errr…I expressly said I was willing to give dad4 the benefit of the doubt. I for one really believe we are all bigoted in some ways, no matter who we are, and have a tough time seeing or accepting that we are. It’s part of the human condition. No need to jump on each other or cancel each other. Also no reason not to call it out when it happens.
I have put forward a proposal. I think the restrictions should be on a sliding scale. Most restricted for pro national and Olympic teams. More restrictions for individual sports than team sports. Where we disagree is over whether ecnl is anything more than glorified kiddie soccer. My test is simple: if we care enough to sus out the blatant cheaters, then we can care enough to think about the trans kids. Otherwise all you are doing is singling them out, which has the neg consequences that some cis girls might also be subject to scrutiny (which again should happen only if we are also calling out the blatant cheaters). If you don’t care about the cheaters, and aren’t willing to bear the burden or inconvenience, your points about fairness are just garbage masking underlying bias.
my position is probably the most centrist here.My Schtick is I just thrive on callingout the logical inconsistencies of others particularly when they’ve taken opposite positions in other contexts. It’s fun.
Someone took the opposite position in other contexts? Who????
I am pretty sure everyone on this thread is opposed to kids using performance enhancing drugs in youth soccer. Nor was anyone in favor of using fake birth certificates.
You‘re saying “If thing 1 is ok, then thing 2 must be ok, too.”. But no one said anything about thing 1 being ok.
In your case I tweaked your nose for being so ready to accept the establishment experts in one context, but rejecting them in this context (supposedly because they were captured by the lgbtq lobby). I just found that really funny.
you and I are actually pretty close in positions in this context. Our primary differences is that I think you have some biases that you don’t realize are bigoted or intend to be harsh (but are) and you think ecnl is some glorified elite institution worthily of being treated as top of the line when it doesn’t behave that way, even when it comes to thinks like overt cheating such as through ped
If a kid is on the bench to the extent that they cannot get scouted, they are not good enough to play college soccer. If a player has been "pushed aside" because a trans player took her spot, she was really "pushed aside" by 10 biological girls. You also cannot identify a single biological girl in history who has ever been denied the opportunity to play college soccer because of a trans player, because it has never happened. You just keep making up fake hysterical hypotheticals because reality is beyond your grasp. In reality, "fairness" also includes accepting that those who support trans participation have legitimate reasons, even if you believe they are outweighed by other legitimate factors. Not your bs fake ones.
Surf Futbol, you have some good takes at times but this has to be one of your worst takes ever, moo
The fact that you and Grace like each other is amazing and it show two avatars can change and agree on some things. I have honest Q for you. Why do men like you want to take away any roster spot or a job away from a biological female and give that spot to a biological male, who has a mans body 100% and call that man a female and now eligible to take showers and play with the girls? This is insane with all due respect.Surf Futbol, you have some good takes at times but this has to be one of your worst takes ever, moo
You can't get away though from the fact you also have the reverse problem. Because you have FTM who eventually are ruled ineligible from playing with the girls because they are taking testosterone, which is a performance enhancing drug. Nevertheless, that FTM is a biological female. So just falling back on biology doesn't get you there.
The issue of bathrooms and showers are completely different than whether they should be allowed to play and should be decided separately (I note you also have the reverse issue there as you will eventually wind up with a FTM with ah.....equipment.....and who might very well be interested in girls....in the girls locker room if you go purely on a biological test).
The fact were having a discussion about who can shower and play sports with the girls is insane. I'm sorry Grace T and this is with all due respect to your belief system and Surf Futbol beliefs ((aka The Long Game, Golden Gate, EOTL and probably a few others)) agrees with you and likes you now. I like that. When this is over we ALL need to go have a beer and have a face to face meet up. Vegas? I appreciate everyone and their positions they have on this subject and I love to debate the latest goings on in life. Right now, some men want to also be females so they can take roster spot or a actual job away from a real female. Playing dress up, wear a wig, wear cute dress and put on make up to feel like a women does not make that person a female. Because of this fact, I find the man playing dress up ineligible to shower and or play sports on the girls team against other female teams in the freaking leagues of any female league only. Thank God my dd aged out.
Errr....1. Showers/locker rooms are a different issue. Just because you let someone play ECNL ball doesn't necessarily follow they have to shower together. and 2. you conveniently ignore that you have the opposite issue because there are people (however rare) going the other way. If you care about you dear daughter being in the same locker room as equipment you still need to address the issue with something other than the biological test. I'm not saying there shouldn't be the rule (I wouldn't want my dear daughter to be forced to see equipment if she didn't want to), but yours doesn't get you there. sorry but 3. this sounds a lot like the talk about gay service men and how they should have been banned from the military....men and women would have to have people from the same gender looking at them in the shower....there's a bunch of solutions to it (I personally think we should implement the Starship Troopers solution.....everyone gets to see everyone else's equipment
). What lots of county and school districts have done is implement privacy changing areas and showers.If you are doing it for fun, some might call that trolling.
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I'm not entirely opposed to it. Adolescence is usually the appropriate time for people to correct or choose to improve their genetic and developmental lot in life through medically-supervised administration of steroids and growth hormones, and in many cases steroids that would cause a PED test failure are the best medication for some diseases.
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Err....we disagree.Errr....1. Showers/locker rooms are a different issue. Just because you let someone play ECNL ball doesn't necessarily follow they have to shower together. and 2. you conveniently ignore that you have the opposite issue because there are people (however rare) going the other way. If you care about you dear daughter being in the same locker room as equipment you still need to address the issue with something other than the biological test. I'm not saying there shouldn't be the rule (I wouldn't want my dear daughter to be forced to see equipment if she didn't want to), but yours doesn't get you there. sorry but 3. this sounds a lot like the talk about gay service men and how they should have been banned from the military....men and women would have to have people from the same gender looking at them in the shower....there's a bunch of solutions to it (I personally think we should implement the Starship Troopers solution.....everyone gets to see everyone else's equipment
You don't care if your daughter sees equipment....the equipment isn't what is motivating you...you only don't want them to be in the locker room with someone who is xy????
p.s. presumably you don't care either if your dear daughter is being ogled by a fellow student or gym teacher that is lesbian?
Wow, lot's of presumes on your part. The shower part can be dealt with so no need to debate that. BTW, I just read a story out of Ohio where a Transgender raped a girl in the girls bathroom on HS campus. Equipment used like that is pure evil! My compliant is the physical advantage and that's it. My best pal's son does Drag Queen shows Grace. Super cool guy and would never allow any kids to the shows. No library performance. His shows have drinks so you must be 21 to enter. If my son came to me at 16 and told me, "dad, I now identify as a women and my new name is Trixie. Also, I quit the boys team and now I want to play on the girls team and go beat other girls in soccer and I need your help." I would love Trixie no less then when I loved her as my boy. However, I would tell Trixie she needs to beat on the boys to get better and the girls will not make you a better futboler.You don't care if your daughter sees equipment....the equipment isn't what is motivating you...you only don't want them to be in the locker room with someone who is xy????
p.s. presumably you don't care either if your dear daughter is being ogled by a fellow student or gym teacher that is lesbian?
Surf Futbol, you have some good takes at times but this has to be one of your worst takes ever, moo
You cannot identify a single roster spot that has ever been taken away from a biological girl because of a trans girl. It is remarkable that you're ignoring that even if a biological girl doesn't make "the 18", it is because there were 17 biological girls who were far more responsible for that happening than the trans girl. There are also no caps on roster sizes at colleges, which probably explains why no one here can point to a single biological girl in history who was ever denied a college roster spot or scholarship because of a trans woman. The truth of the matter is this is not a zero sum game. Biological girls who are good enough to play college soccer do. The girls who are good enough to get scholarships also do. Even to the extent there has ever been any trans collegiate soccer players, they have been so rare, so unimpactful, that you can't even identify one let alone find one who deprived someone else of a roster spot. Rather than recognize that you're creating a fake problem, you and your friends go on witch hunts trying to out children you suspect of being trans, like the biological girl who got raked over the coals and defamed earlier at this site. Despicable.
Also, no one has said anything about having to shower with anyone else, and there are some obvious and simple solutions to that problem that you intentionally ignore because you don't have any good arguments to make.