No.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
No.
thirteenknots
SILVER ELITE
NO !
It is CHEATING, plain and simple.
A Male cannot become a Female.
A Female cannot become a Male.
Mutilating a Human Being to give the appearance
of the opposite sex is Fraud.
Rachel Levine ripped for demanding censorship of 'misinformation' on 'gender-affirming care' for kids
HHS Assistant Secretary Dr. Levine took heat for a recently-surfaced clip in which the official asked Big Tech to censor views disputing the positives of "gender-affirming care."
www.foxnews.com
GLangevinito
SILVER
People like to say that this is a fringe issue, and right now I mostly agree. But there will come a day when a top boys youth soccer team, in order to prove a political point, will enter a huge tournament like Surf Cup as a girls team, and decisions will need to be made. Lawsuits will be filed. Tournaments will be in an impossible situation: let them play and see 30-0 scores or reject them and face a discrimination lawsuit.
College scholarships can be worth $100k a year. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a mid-level boy suddenly becomes the best girl soccer player in the state and snags a full ride to USC? Do you think college coaches will not jump at a chance to snag the best "girl" soccer players in order to turn their team around to keep their job?
I am all for letting people live how they want, but when that means you are taking valuable things away from others because it gives you an advantage, we need to be rational.
College scholarships can be worth $100k a year. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a mid-level boy suddenly becomes the best girl soccer player in the state and snags a full ride to USC? Do you think college coaches will not jump at a chance to snag the best "girl" soccer players in order to turn their team around to keep their job?
I am all for letting people live how they want, but when that means you are taking valuable things away from others because it gives you an advantage, we need to be rational.
Over the last 6-7 years I've seen 3 "boys" playing on girls teams. Interestingly 2 out of the 3 were goalies.
If you want to see how much society has changed reguarding boys playing on girls soccer teams watch the old Rodney Dangerfield movie Ladybugs. In the 80s a boy playing on a girls team was accepted as wrong + not even questioned. Now as long as boys really want to be a girl its ok.
If you want to see how much society has changed reguarding boys playing on girls soccer teams watch the old Rodney Dangerfield movie Ladybugs. In the 80s a boy playing on a girls team was accepted as wrong + not even questioned. Now as long as boys really want to be a girl its ok.
So you're saying that trans girls should not be allowed to play with other girls because maybe someday there might be a team of transphobic boys who decide to be even bigger assholes than typical transphobes? Does this mean you're admitting it's the transphobes who are the problem, not the actual trans kids? Oh, and your incredibly stupid speculation about a mid-level boy trying to snag a college scholarship on a girls team conveniently omits the years of hormone therapy they need to do first. And the fact that no one has ever done that in history. And the fact that, yet again, the fake "problem" that you are creating to oppose trans children from playing has nothing to do with people who are legitimately transgender, but only people who are transphobic. You are really so dense that you don't realize that you keep admitting that it's the transphobic people like yourself who are the problem?
Well I'll just leave this here.
In 1988, at the US Olympic trials in Indianapolis, Florence Griffith Joyner romped home in the female 100m quarterfinals to set a new world record of 10.49 seconds. In over 30 years, that record has yet to be broken. Five years ago, In 2017, 744 senior males ran 2825 100m races faster than 10.49s.
In 1993, Russian Irina Privalova set the 60m world record which still stands 30 years later. Last year, 5 Senior Boys alone in the State of Maryland beat her time. 60m translates to the pitch much better than the 100m. Still, this shows just how much more physically dominent men are.
This is just my personal opinion, but if one cannot legally vote, drink, or smoke, even with parent approval, I do not believe they should be allowed to make the choice to mutilate their body or be put on hormone blockers. However, once one reaches the age of 18, game on for whatever you want to do.
I have nothing against those who choose to be homosexual, trans, or whatever, but I do have something against what science says about it's biological advantages over the opposite sex. Even with hormone blockers, especially if not taken before puberty, the biological makeup is still going to be a major advantage but like I said, it should absolutely be illegal to take hormone blockers before puberty.
In all honesty it is also my opinion women taking hormones in trans to men should not be able to partake in Women's OR Men's sports. They will have physical advantages over women similar to steriods, yet not strong enough for Men's sports, especially contact sports.
Lastly, when one talks about "feelings", I always find it interesting that for every one transgender that might have mental struggles, you could probably multiply that number at 5x for the teammates around them that are forced to accept what is likely an unfair advantage, and if their are also locker rooms involved, the additional mental stress from that. If you want proof, just look at Lia Thomas who started her transformation late. Hormone therapy after puberty. Fellow teammates and competitors equally highly upset. So on, so forth.
If Steroids are illegal than so should Female-to-Male (biological male genes are performance enhancing) trans athletes, as well as female to male (male hormone treatments pretty much are steroids.)
Again, sorry, I'm not against homosexuality or however one identifies, but Trans in sports is a losing debate. In the end, it hurts girls and young women much more than it hurts the Trans girl itself. To play Devil's advocate, I do think this is a State issue and should be settled in States. That way, with states in favor, families can move there if they so choose. I think the NCAA should take a serious look on how to approach this issue.
7-0 U15 Boys win over U23 Womens National team (w/Rose Lavelle and others)
Quinn, Canadian Trans, First Trans National Team player. (Another women sadly left off roster for human born with male genome).
U17 Boy allowed to play with girls team.
www.youtube.com
In 1988, at the US Olympic trials in Indianapolis, Florence Griffith Joyner romped home in the female 100m quarterfinals to set a new world record of 10.49 seconds. In over 30 years, that record has yet to be broken. Five years ago, In 2017, 744 senior males ran 2825 100m races faster than 10.49s.
In 1993, Russian Irina Privalova set the 60m world record which still stands 30 years later. Last year, 5 Senior Boys alone in the State of Maryland beat her time. 60m translates to the pitch much better than the 100m. Still, this shows just how much more physically dominent men are.
This is just my personal opinion, but if one cannot legally vote, drink, or smoke, even with parent approval, I do not believe they should be allowed to make the choice to mutilate their body or be put on hormone blockers. However, once one reaches the age of 18, game on for whatever you want to do.
I have nothing against those who choose to be homosexual, trans, or whatever, but I do have something against what science says about it's biological advantages over the opposite sex. Even with hormone blockers, especially if not taken before puberty, the biological makeup is still going to be a major advantage but like I said, it should absolutely be illegal to take hormone blockers before puberty.
In all honesty it is also my opinion women taking hormones in trans to men should not be able to partake in Women's OR Men's sports. They will have physical advantages over women similar to steriods, yet not strong enough for Men's sports, especially contact sports.
Lastly, when one talks about "feelings", I always find it interesting that for every one transgender that might have mental struggles, you could probably multiply that number at 5x for the teammates around them that are forced to accept what is likely an unfair advantage, and if their are also locker rooms involved, the additional mental stress from that. If you want proof, just look at Lia Thomas who started her transformation late. Hormone therapy after puberty. Fellow teammates and competitors equally highly upset. So on, so forth.
If Steroids are illegal than so should Female-to-Male (biological male genes are performance enhancing) trans athletes, as well as female to male (male hormone treatments pretty much are steroids.)
Again, sorry, I'm not against homosexuality or however one identifies, but Trans in sports is a losing debate. In the end, it hurts girls and young women much more than it hurts the Trans girl itself. To play Devil's advocate, I do think this is a State issue and should be settled in States. That way, with states in favor, families can move there if they so choose. I think the NCAA should take a serious look on how to approach this issue.
7-0 U15 Boys win over U23 Womens National team (w/Rose Lavelle and others)
Quinn, Canadian Trans, First Trans National Team player. (Another women sadly left off roster for human born with male genome).
U17 Boy allowed to play with girls team.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
just an FYI….according to Wikipedia, Quinn was born a female and transitioned to Non Binary. They is why the NWSL permits “them” to play.Well I'll just leave this here.
In 1988, at the US Olympic trials in Indianapolis, Florence Griffith Joyner romped home in the female 100m quarterfinals to set a new world record of 10.49 seconds. In over 30 years, that record has yet to be broken. Five years ago, In 2017, 744 senior males ran 2825 100m races faster than 10.49s.
In 1993, Russian Irina Privalova set the 60m world record which still stands 30 years later. Last year, 5 Senior Boys alone in the State of Maryland beat her time. 60m translates to the pitch much better than the 100m. Still, this shows just how much more physically dominent men are.
This is just my personal opinion, but if one cannot legally vote, drink, or smoke, even with parent approval, I do not believe they should be allowed to make the choice to mutilate their body or be put on hormone blockers. However, once one reaches the age of 18, game on for whatever you want to do.
I have nothing against those who choose to be homosexual, trans, or whatever, but I do have something against what science says about it's biological advantages over the opposite sex. Even with hormone blockers, especially if not taken before puberty, the biological makeup is still going to be a major advantage but like I said, it should absolutely be illegal to take hormone blockers before puberty.
In all honesty it is also my opinion women taking hormones in trans to men should not be able to partake in Women's OR Men's sports. They will have physical advantages over women similar to steriods, yet not strong enough for Men's sports, especially contact sports.
Lastly, when one talks about "feelings", I always find it interesting that for every one transgender that might have mental struggles, you could probably multiply that number at 5x for the teammates around them that are forced to accept what is likely an unfair advantage, and if their are also locker rooms involved, the additional mental stress from that. If you want proof, just look at Lia Thomas who started her transformation late. Hormone therapy after puberty. Fellow teammates and competitors equally highly upset. So on, so forth.
If Steroids are illegal than so should Female-to-Male (biological male genes are performance enhancing) trans athletes, as well as female to male (male hormone treatments pretty much are steroids.)
Again, sorry, I'm not against homosexuality or however one identifies, but Trans in sports is a losing debate. In the end, it hurts girls and young women much more than it hurts the Trans girl itself. To play Devil's advocate, I do think this is a State issue and should be settled in States. That way, with states in favor, families can move there if they so choose. I think the NCAA should take a serious look on how to approach this issue.
7-0 U15 Boys win over U23 Womens National team (w/Rose Lavelle and others)
Quinn, Canadian Trans, First Trans National Team player. (Another women sadly left off roster for human born with male genome).
U17 Boy allowed to play with girls team.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Other than that I would agree with much of your sentiment
Ok, I no problem with they/them then. My apologies on the mistake.
GLangevinito
SILVER
No one except the Olympics requires "years of hormone therapy". The trans girl does not need to undergo ANY hormone therapy in high school to be offered a college scholarship. Just that they need their testosterone levels within a certain range during the season. This is AFTER puberty.
At least you aren't arguing that trans girls don't have an athletic advantage. That's a start.
A trans boy wanting to compete with boys at any level: FINE
A trans girl wanting to compete with girls at a rec level: FINE
A trans girl wanting to compete with girls at the highest level: NOT FINE
The argument that it doesn't happen much yet is one I often hear. Granted, it's rare. But we can't just ignore it.
whatithink
GOLD
I'd suggest that because it's so rare, we pretty much can (& most people do) ignore it. Given your delineation of when a trans girl can play, this seems to be less about them playing and more about whether they may take a scholarship from your DD - very NIMBY attitude as far as I can see.
From my perspective, my kids (both genders) will get a scholarship or not, but they'll go to a college for an education, and it'll be picked based on that, not based on any sports program. In the here & now, I really don't care about my kids W/L ratio and/or whether the team that just beat my DDs team has one or more trans girls; they are kids play youth soccer.
GLangevinito
SILVER
You accuse me of forming an opinion based on my family situation when you know nothing about it, and then declare you don't care because your kids will not get athletic scholarships? Ok.
All we should care about is athletic equality, and like it or not, going through puberty as a male gives you an advantage.
All good until…….
www.nationalreview.com
Female High-School Volleyball Athlete Suffers Serious Head Injury after Transgender Player Spikes ‘Abnormally Fast’ Ball | National Review
She is still recovering from long-term concussion symptoms, including problems with her vision.
www.nationalreview.com
The problem though is that once you establish a rule banning trans athletes you have to establish a protocol for catching rule breakers and challenging kids may not meet the test (particularly in California where you can get your birth certificate changed relatively easily even to neutral).
If you truly care about "advantages", then presumably you care enough as well to catch the steroid cheaters, however rare that may be, and would advocate for youth soccer to start implementing some doping protocols (especially since both problems are essentially linked to testosterone). If it's important enough to exclude the trans kids, it's certainly important enough to catch the cheaters.
100%All good until…….
Female High-School Volleyball Athlete Suffers Serious Head Injury after Transgender Player Spikes ‘Abnormally Fast’ Ball | National Review
She is still recovering from long-term concussion symptoms, including problems with her vision.
We don't drug test youth soccer players but we do ban it. So according to your logic, we should stick with the same application. I agree let's ban trans M2F from competing in high level sports, but don't check their hormone level and go with the honesty method unless there is substantial evidence that requires testing.
In college and professional sports, there is drug testing so colleges and professionals can test for all M2F issues too.
There is no such thing as "equality" in sports, at least in the way you present your argument. All sports are biased to favor inborn characteristics as opposed to those you can practice or develop. Watch any soccer game with kids aged 11-15. Some are significantly taller and physically more mature than others. At the college level, the average PAC-12 womens' soccer player is almost 5'8", which puts her at about the 90th percentile for height. Some runners have a gene which allows them to process oxygen slightly more efficiently. Quarterbacks usually have huge hands. Yet nobody complains about these genetic and hormonal advantages.
Then there are medically-created athletic advantages. In youth soccer, I am aware of a number of players who underwent hormone therapies to grow taller, as did Lionel Messi. In baseball, pitchers get Tommy John surgery, which makes their elbows stronger than they could naturally achieve, while batters get eye surgery to help them see pitches better. Yet nobody complains about these medically-created advantages.
As to whether "going to puberty as a male" gives a male-to-female transgender athlete an advantage, you may be correct. So what? We already countenance genetic, hormonal and man-made advantages in sports. Why draw the line at transgender.
[/QUOTE]
While every athlete can undergo vision correction, most athletes are not allowed hormone therapy unless there is health logic to do so. Lionel Messi's hormone therapy was to help with a medical condition he had and it didn't give him an unfair advantage against other athletes, it was going to help his body create the hormones it naturally would have created if he wasn't sick.
With M2F, you're asking elite sports to ignore the highest forms of unfair advantages and that's not going to happen.
For everyone who says this is not a problem bc how the minute numbers of trans, then please recognize that even with such a minute number of trans, it has already affected women's sports. M2F athletes already have created issues in the following sports: biker, swimmer, volleyball, basketball, runner, etc.
That's a lot for such a small group of people. So imagine when the M2F surgeries in the next generation increase, how much more issues will it cause?
If you read my prior posts, I'm in favor of a college/professional ban, particularly in individual sports, since the stakes are high enough to do drug testing (though I'd be open to an argument for x number of years post-surgery).
The problem with the logic you lay out lies in the words "substantial evidence". It's where it self-evidently stumbles all over itself. The fact you even had to use those words shows the problem with your argument.
1. There is no such standard for drug testing in youth soccer. At least with respect to the MLS Next rules, I don't see anywhere in either the rules or player conduct where protocols for performance enhancing drugs are laid out or even an outright prohibition....there's a lose policy in the code of conduct for drugs and alcohol....if I'm wrong happy to have you correct me and spell it out where exactly the protocols appear. I see, however, that in black and white the standards for discriminatory and bigoted conduct are laid out, gambling on your game, and putting the MLS in ill repute.
2. If it's a hormone test, then you are back to square 1 with the cheaters since steroids are essentially hormone based (testosterone is a performance enhancing drug). There is no effective difference so you have to answer then what would trigger your "substantial evidence" standard in both cases.
3. otherwise what you are left with is presenting the correct birth certificate, which as we've established, in California is easy to get around
With M2F, you're asking elite sports to ignore the highest forms of unfair advantages and that's not going to happen.
[/QUOTE]
This is not a correct statement. The highest form of unfair advantage would be performance enhancing drugs which at least in youth soccer we DO NOT go after. The next highest form of unfair advantage is the falsified birth certificates, which while there is a velvet rope there, as seen by former ads on this site for false papers and given anecdotally how many there are floating around out there, we police laughably when it comes to youth soccer, particularly now post-COVID when originals of the papers don't even need to be submitted.
This is not a correct statement. The highest form of unfair advantage would be performance enhancing drugs which at least in youth soccer we DO NOT go after. The next highest form of unfair advantage is the falsified birth certificates, which while there is a velvet rope there, as seen by former ads on this site for false papers and given anecdotally how many there are floating around out there, we police laughably when it comes to youth soccer, particularly now post-COVID when originals of the papers don't even need to be submitted.
[/QUOTE]
What do you think M2F? It's performance enhancing drugs on steroids.