At NCAA Division 1, it's 9.9 to 14 for men/women soccer. Or were you referring to something else?
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
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At NCAA Division 1, it's 9.9 to 14 for men/women soccer. Or were you referring to something else?
Pollo Elastico
BRONZE
Not cruel at all.
A man should not be allowed to play on a women's team....no matter how comfortable or uncomfortable he feels about his body.
What is farcical is to allow men or boys to take spots reserved for girls/women. That is not only farcical...it is cruel. We created these divisions so women/girls can compete either individually or on a team. In college they even receive scholarships. A man feeling uncomfortable does not mean they get to take a scholarship or a spot on a womens team that should go to an actual woman.
Nor should we hear the press LAUD the womens records a man in college now holds in swimming. How can a man told women's records.? In a sane world that wouldn't happen.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
Oh come on. This is a test than NO MAN can pass, no matter how hard they try. I wish they could do both, would make me very happy and giggly.
GoldenGate
GOLD
The spots are not reserved for biological women. You just want them to be because you are transphobic. If your little princess isn't good enough to compete against a trans girl, her career is just about over regardless of the trans girl.
I do not believe there is a single trans woman in college who has received an athletic scholarship. Your irrational fear that a trans woman will take away a scholarship from a biological women is, well, irrational. Worse, it is a bullshit argument because trans people who manage to excel despite all the abuse they suffer growing up are typically far more deserving of financial aid than virtually every spoiled little soccer princess.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Uh, the issue is there is a reason "we" created the divisions that allow trans participation in the first place. Again, you seem to forget that the divisions you want to exist don't. Remember, you're the petulant child who is whining that you aren't getting things your way.
Would you feel better if "we" relabeled girls ECNL as "girls ECNL, which we would like to make clear for those transphobes out there who think a biology textbook is a soccer rulebook that we mean both birth and gender identity"?
Feel free to create your own transphobic church league if you can't take it.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
My suggestion, don't try to talk sense to anyone who thinks trans women should be able to play in women's sports. I guess this is what they meant when they said the "future is female" - the future is female for trans females. LMAO
Again you are conflating. What happens with the swimming records is entirely different from what happens in ECNL kiddie ball. What happens with scholarships is different than ECNL kiddie ball. Sweeping them all in one is lazy reasoning. That's one red flag.
Other people have raised the performance, safety or genetics (purity concern). You've raised another one: participation. Firstly, that assumes the slots in youth soccer are limited...they aren't....there are plenty of teams that still struggle to make restore. Second, you are basically sentencing the ftm in this case to not be able to play because they simply can't compete (after a time) with the other boys....the hormones will make them weaker and even if they aren't on hormones it's not like they will be body building with the rest of the team since they'll want to keep a more feminine shape. Third, you totally ducked the question about then if it's o.k. for the ftm to play with the girls despite the testosterone or the full beard. That in and of itself is a second red flag for your motivations.
You also said you "don't care what people do personally." I note that's not enough to absolve you from bigotry. Saying "I support the right of blacks to eat at the diner counter but I certainly wouldn't be friends with one" is certainly better than "segregation now and forever" but it's also not bigotry free. Don't feel too bad....we have way to much cancel culture and everyone is, to quote a phrase, just a little bit racist. People should endeavor, however, to separate feelings from reasoning, and to separate preconceived notions and biases from logic. You haven't done that...you haven't answered the questions why does it all matter other than this issue of participation, which cuts both ways.
The side that says mtf should have unfettered access to women's sports regardless of the level and the circumstances is just as bad as the side that says never and under no circumstances. It's an appeal to emotion, full of preconceived ideas, and not thought out without any rational limiting principles. Neither of you is making any sense.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
BS - Any logical female who is truly trying to compete would say female trans athletes should not compete against females. Go play co-ed leagues if you are trans...just don't take a females spot on a team or in a swim meet where it is about competition. How can any logical individual deny this? Even if its only one trans female athlete doing this, it's wrong.
GoldenGate
GOLD
The real problem with your analogy, however, is that there is no soccer league that is reserved for biological Asians or African Americans. In fact, if someone tried to do that in the U.S., it would be illegal. In other words, you are missing the point. The argument is not whether a trans girl is a biological girl, which no one is making anyway. The issue is whether a private company should be allowed to decide that both can play in the same league.
You're upset that USYS, ECNL, US Soccer, the NWSL, the NCAA, the Olympics, and others allow transgender participation provided certain conditions are met. You have come out on the anti-free market, anti-capitalist, anti-constitutional, anti-inclusivity side of the argument.
Because sports aren't solely about competition, at least on the youth level. If youth sports were purely about competition, we would, for example, dope/testosterone test and rigorously suss out the fake birth certificates. Sports are also about socialization and getting kids exercise. Depending on the level, we might take the competition more seriously. On the rec level, who care amongst a bunch of 8 year olds. At the ECNL level, who cares as well...it's in essence glorified rec that you pay for...no one is going to care in 20 years that you won the stupid tournament trophy.
At the D1 college level or the academy youth level, it begins to get more serious...careers, records, national team participation is at stake. The girls do not have an equivalent academy youth level and the play level for ECNL is very broad. Perhaps if they did, where USWNT and Olympic recruitment is at stake, it would be a different story. But that's not the reality we are dealing with. It's not the cards that are dealt.
Further, if performance is your dividing line, presumably: 1. you are o.k. with testosterone testing (including testing that might catch some girls with some unnaturally high testosterone levels) because if you are going to go after someone, you have to go out after the cheaters first, 2. you'd be o.k. with some mtf who prior to 12/13/14 takes puberty blockers before entering the full swing of puberty to participate with the girls, and 3. you'd be o.k. with the ftm to continue to compete with the women for as long as they so desire, provided they aren't on testosterone. If you aren't, then something other than performance may be motivating you.
As hard as it is to believe, I don't really think that they think putting on a dress and having a surgery magically turns them into biological women. It doesn't. It does allow them to present, however, with the gender that their dysphoria pushes them towards. It's not something magical, but tragic and sad, and for which there is only an imperfect solution.
I also point out that I agree it's not possible to change your race. It is entirely possible, however, for someone from another country to immigrate here, live and learn our customs, and take a citizenship test. While they can't become an English descendent descended from the puritans, it is entirely possible for them to become, like the rest of us, Americans. That's also what makes us different from some countries, like Japan.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Are you mansplaining what women should believe? Regardless, you are so full of shit. Billie Jean King, Megan Rapinoe, and Candace Parker Join Nearly 200 Athletes Supporting Trans Youth Participation in Sports - Women's Sports Foundation (womenssportsfoundation.org)
If you're afraid your daughter is the worst kid on the team and at risk of being displaced by a trans girl, the reality is she's the one who belongs in the co-ed rec league regardless of the trans player. You are also conveniently ignoring that even if a girl on a roster of 20 is displaced, she wasn't displaced by the trans girl. She was displaced by 19 biological girls and one trans girl, so maybe you should put the blame where it belongs.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Anyone whose belief system is based on what a magical invisible all-powerful being in the sky told them to believe has no right to claim they are being logical and someone who sees through that bs is not.
Go take your kid to the rec co-ed league where she belongs.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Stupid is as stupid does.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
Golden Gate taking the opposite opinion as myself is further proof I am correct.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
you are quite the bigot. Why do you hate christians and why do you act out on other people's kids? You are so brave, mashing away on your keyboard. And what is wrong with coed leagues? It's as if you want to punish people's kids all the time..so weird...
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
It's even more predictive than the Y chromosome.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
This isn't about my daughter...but if it were, I would be pissed. This is about the female swimmer who didn't make the final 8 at the NCAA finals swimming events that Lia Thomas took. This is about the New Zealand woman weight lifter who didn't make the olympics because a trans female took her spot. How in the world can you think this is OK? Honestly GG...you and your woke cohorts are a total joke and in reality 90% of the people on gods green earth think trans females taking real females spots in competitive sports is complete BS. We might all not say it because we don't want to deal with your ilks BS backlash, but we are all thinking it. You guys come up with slogans like "the future is female" but when push comes to shove, they are the first ones you screw over.
Surf Zombie
GOLD
I’ve read a bit of this thread and, in my view, the discussion centers around a trans person asking for something that benefits them, ie, playing on a sports team that is the opposite of his or her birth gender.
It gets even muddier if you flip it around. I saw a piece about the war in Ukraine and how the Ukrainian government mandated that all males aged 18-65 were not permitted to leave the country and were compelled to stay and fight the Russian invasion. The piece featured two trans individuals, both in their thirties. The first was a male who identified as a female. He took the position that because of his gender identity (female) he should be permitted to leave Ukraine and not have to stay and fight. The second person was a female who identified as a male. She complained about having to dress in woman’s clothes to appear more feminine so she could try to cross the border and leave the country and not be compelled to stay and fight, despite living her life as a male (but genetically being a female).
Which person should have been made to stay fight and which should have been allowed to leave?
It gets even muddier if you flip it around. I saw a piece about the war in Ukraine and how the Ukrainian government mandated that all males aged 18-65 were not permitted to leave the country and were compelled to stay and fight the Russian invasion. The piece featured two trans individuals, both in their thirties. The first was a male who identified as a female. He took the position that because of his gender identity (female) he should be permitted to leave Ukraine and not have to stay and fight. The second person was a female who identified as a male. She complained about having to dress in woman’s clothes to appear more feminine so she could try to cross the border and leave the country and not be compelled to stay and fight, despite living her life as a male (but genetically being a female).
Which person should have been made to stay fight and which should have been allowed to leave?