Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

Surf Zombie said:
Which person should have been made to stay fight and which should have been allowed to leave?
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It isn't a tricky question at all. Ukrainian law stipulates men between 18-65 have to stay.

The guy has to stay because despite what he wears or thinks is a male.

The woman who usually dresses up as a male can leave. Why? For the simple reason she is a woman.

Despite what they wear or what they think, one is a biological male and the other is a biological female.

What they think, or what they wear, or if they have surgically removed parts does not change the fact that one is an actual male and the other an actual female.

Why on Earth would you think that is muddled?
 
Pollo Elastico said:
It isn't a tricky question at all. Ukrainian law stipulates men between 18-65 have to stay.

The guy has to stay because despite what he wears or thinks is a male.

The woman who usually dresses up as a male can leave. Why? For the simple reason she is a woman.

Despite what they wear or what they think, one is a biological male and the other is a biological female.

What they think, or what they wear, or if they have surgically removed parts does not change the fact that one is an actual male and the other an actual female.

Why on Earth would you think that is muddled?
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I personally don’t think it’s muddled at all. To me the biological male clearly is the person the Ukrainian government intended to stay and fight. Additionally, IMO biological males should play on male sports teams in HS, college, professionally and in the Olympics.

Pre-puberty, I personally don’t think it matters for a host of reasons including that kids of that age are of similar size and strength, winning should not be the first priority at that age, etc.

The point I was trying to make is that for the people who wish to discuss this, the topic can get even messier if you are talking about a policy that befits a trans person as opposed to a policy that does not.
 
Surf Zombie said:
I personally don’t think it’s muddled at all. To me the biological male clearly is the person the Ukrainian government intended to stay and fight. Additionally, IMO biological males should play on male sports teams in HS, college, professionally and in the Olympics.

Pre-puberty, I personally don’t think it matters for a host of reasons including that kids of that age are of similar size and strength, winning should not be the first priority at that age, etc.

The point I was trying to make is that for the people who wish to discuss this, the topic can get even messier if you are talking about a policy that befits a trans person as opposed to a policy that does not.
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You wanna know where it gets the most messy? The entire bathroom thing. Sure, I get the argument that people don't want some random trans mtf with his parts still in tact going into the bathroom/spa/lockeroom with their 12 year old daughter. But then if we have a law that says people have to go to their biological bathrooms, you'd still get some person ftm (who quite possibly could be attracted to women) going into the bathroom with their 12 year old daughter (if it's a locker room or spa your 12 year old daughter even legally would get to see everything). What's more, you'll get demands under the equity laws to put urinals in the women's restrooms. In that case, if you really care about exposing 12 year old girl's eyes to things they shouldn't see, a surgery rule makes the most sense.

For the Ukrainian question, the question is what is the function of the law separating men and women from service in the armed forces. I don't think there's a good answer to this. Being a feminist myself, I think the answer here should be both should be forced to stay...maybe allow the women with children and elderly to flee, but there's no good reason to excuse women from the defense of their country (I also think that it is long past time for the women in this country to register for the draft).
 
Grace T. said:
You wanna know where it gets the most messy? The entire bathroom thing. Sure, I get the argument that people don't want some random trans mtf with his parts still in tact going into the bathroom/spa/lockeroom with their 12 year old daughter. But then if we have a law that says people have to go to their biological bathrooms, you'd still get some person ftm (who quite possibly could be attracted to women) going into the bathroom with their 12 year old daughter (if it's a locker room or spa your 12 year old daughter even legally would get to see everything). What's more, you'll get demands under the equity laws to put urinals in the women's restrooms. In that case, if you really care about exposing 12 year old girl's eyes to things they shouldn't see, a surgery rule makes the most sense.

For the Ukrainian question, the question is what is the function of the law separating men and women from service in the armed forces. I don't think there's a good answer to this. Being a feminist myself, I think the answer here should be both should be forced to stay...maybe allow the women with children and elderly to flee, but there's no good reason to excuse women from the defense of their country (I also think that it is long past time for the women in this country to register for the draft).
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Messy? Many schools around here just install a few single stall bathrooms. It seems to solve the problem.
 
dad4 said:
Messy? Many schools around here just install a few single stall bathrooms. It seems to solve the problem.
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Yeah, but we can't shift the world to single stall bathrooms. The other way some places have been going is unisex bathrooms. I personally don't like them but there are two ways to skin this cat. It also doesn't get us away from incidents like the Korea spa incident.
 
chipmonk said:
www.deseret.com

After a girl beat their daughters in sports, Utah parents triggered investigation into whether she was transgender

The girl’s school opened the student-athlete’s enrollment records dating back to kindergarten, confirming she had always been female, a Utah High School Activities Association representative told legislators.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com
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The question the article didn't answer was whether they tested for performance enhancing drugs. It would be shocking to me that they didn't go there first.

Assuming they did, I'd bet a round of drinks that the girl either has a genetic or hormonal aberrance. There is no such thing as a level playing field.
 
Grace T. said:
The question the article didn't answer was whether they tested for performance enhancing drugs. It would be shocking to me that they didn't go there first.

Assuming they did, I'd bet a round of drinks that the girl either has a genetic or hormonal aberrance. There is no such thing as a level playing field.
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Based on what?
 
Grace T. said:
Just a hunch, based on the description. This article and a few others don't specify what the sport or the discrepancy but they all suggest something was really materially different between the first and 2/3 place winners.
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Some of the farm girls where I grew up didn't look much like girls until they got into high school. I remember getting beaten up by one in 6th grade.

Now it's one of my favorite fantasies.
 
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espola said:
Some of the farm girls where i grew up didn't look much like girls until they got into high school. I remember getting beaten up by one in 6th grade.

Now it's one of my favorite fantasies.
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LOL - I remember losing to one in an arm wrestling match. Good times!
 
I don't have any substantive comment here but I think it is creepy hysterical that in the add feed for this thread there is an ad for online hormone therapy for trans people from "TransClinique".
 
What’s happened in Utah is an ugly reflection of transphobia. Their governor even tried to veto the hate bill, saying it’s not something his citizens should even be worried about. Yet they did worry when their precious kids lost to a better team. Now, any poor girl in that state that doesn’t have long hair and small muscles is going to be a target of these hysterical parents.

Sad to see, all for some boogie man in their minds.
 
Soccer Dad & Ref said:
What’s happened in Utah is an ugly reflection of transphobia. Their governor even tried to veto the hate bill, saying it’s not something his citizens should even be worried about. Yet they did worry when their precious kids lost to a better team. Now, any poor girl in that state that doesn’t have long hair and small muscles is going to be a target of these hysterical parents.

Sad to see, all for some boogie man in their minds.
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As I said, a bunch of chicken littles. As a staunch republican, I stand by the republican principals of logic over emotion, limited government, minding your own business, and being the city on the hill setting an example for the rest of the world. These cry babies whipping themselves into a frenzy must be from some other party.
 
Soccer Dad & Ref said:
Even discussing it generally makes it hard on these children. All they want is to lead a normal life, but haters seem to think what they are really doing is trying to find a way to get a hand up in life to ruin someone else's athletic dreams. lol, yeah, that's the first thing on a 10-year old's mind: how can I ruin some one else's dreams of playing in college?
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Simple. Play co-ed soccer. That's normal.
 
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