Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL

[Grace T.]

I don’t know enough about her youth story. What club did she play for? What league ? Curious. If this is a knock on me for taking my DD out of ECNL to go play MLS then my response is that I don’t live in SD so she can learn the type of soccer that I think all youth should be training. As far as trophies, sure that was the past and I learned my lesson. Not too concerned about winning but I originally left Ole not so much to chase trophies but to be in a team that was going to get invited to all the major tournaments and to play vs the best of the best. I think there is value making it to finals and playing in big games. Will definitely make you strong minded player. The one thing I give credit to Blues is that they know how to work the kids mentality and make them tough. So she got that from there. She got the initial possession from ole and the futsal reinforced it. She’s a 3 time national futsal champion. Now why MLS next. First and foremost I need to have her in a fast pace environment where the speed of play will challenge her to make the right decisions quicker under pressure to keep improving her technique under more pressure and with less time and space to adjust her directional touch. She’s not just playing on the sides. She’s playing in the midfield and also as a false 9. A few years of that, when she comes back to the girls game they will be playing in slow motion from her perspective because of that experience. Playing in the midfield vs the best boys in the country is not an easy task much harder than playing the laterals. It requires tremendous technique under pressure and an innate ability to think before you act. Priceless development for a future #10

I know Red Bulls was trying to get girls on their MLS Next teams. It was one of the selling points for how they got the placement. Is that it? (feel free not to say if you prefer not to).

IIRC, your daughter is about the age the boys begin to take off, first in their height and then in their bulk. I think you've correctly assessed what she'll get out of it. She'll come out a beast especially playing in the middle. The downside is that, particularly among the Mexican teams in that league, play gets very physical. The other downside is you'll notice the academy players are all routinely 1-2 years more advanced in physical development than the average boy EA or even MLS Next player. She'll also come out tough as nails, but it will be difficult for her to keep up more than a year or two physically, depending on how much physical work and supplements you are willing to go. That leaves you with a problem when that's done because I agree with you: going back into the girl's game after that will seem like child's play. Think it's Europe for you or bust (hope you have a good immigration lawyer lined up already and are putting those pieces in place because that can take quite a bit of time if you don't hold dual citizenship....if not, you'll want to get looking already).

 

[Ellejustus]

I don’t know enough about her youth story. What club did she play for? What league ? Curious. If this is a knock on me for taking my DD out of ECNL to go play MLS then my response is that I don’t live in SD so she can learn the type of soccer that I think all youth should be training. As far as trophies, sure that was the past and I learned my lesson. Not too concerned about winning but I originally left Ole not so much to chase trophies but to be in a team that was going to get invited to all the major tournaments and to play vs the best of the best. I think there is value making it to finals and playing in big games. Will definitely make you strong minded player. The one thing I give credit to Blues is that they know how to work the kids mentality and make them tough. So she got that from there. She got the initial possession from ole and the futsal reinforced it. She’s a 3 time national futsal champion. Now why MLS next. First and foremost I need to have her in a fast pace environment where the speed of play will challenge her to make the right decisions quicker under pressure to keep improving her technique under more pressure and with less time and space to adjust her directional touch. She’s not just playing on the sides. She’s playing in the midfield and also as a false 9. A few years of that, when she comes back to the girls game they will be playing in slow motion from her perspective because of that experience. Playing in the midfield vs the best boys in the country is not an easy task much harder than playing the laterals. It requires tremendous technique under pressure and an innate ability to think before you act. Priceless development for a future #10

To each his own. I wanted your thoughts on chasing a top coach? Chasing=Not staying local and willing to drive hour+ for top Doc/Coach and not local club. I 100% will be rooting for your #2. My dd played against the boys at school and she loved it so this will only help her. AT and OM did it and look were they're at today. Lots of options. Stay local and play pro here in the USA like AT or go to Europe and play pro and chase a champion's league cup.

 

[Slobodan]

Let me rephrase my statement. Maybe the do know but they don’t explain like this to kids. Maybe they are simplify things a bit too much or maybe since they have always played direct they just don’t know how to apply these concepts and have it translate to kids executing it right on the pitch. Who knows. I’ve always hear docs saying we go from offense to defense and back to offense. That’s as far as most go. The problem with that statement is that possession soccer is not that simple and that frame of reference can quickly make your young possession team very vulnerable if kids don’t understand the objectives of what they are trying to accomplish in that style of play.

I don't think AYSO kids and parents care about possession. I'll bet, in most cases, they're invested about 5 hours per week, max, and care about winning. It's the lack of commitment that results in a lack of patience and, if you try to have 12 year olds play possession soccer, they're going to lose 7-1 every Saturday. Some jackass is going to put his best athlete in the 9 and over the top... over the top... over the top, etc. It's counter intuitive.

Is there any American sport that rewards "possession" over scoring?

 

[Slobodan]

Until parents stop chasing the trophies, Clubs will always have a win over development mindset.

And when will that ever happen? Winning keeps parents writing checks and getting better seeding at tournaments. Let's not even talk about how embarrassing it is to post a loss on Facebook.

 

[Kicker4Life]

And when will that ever happen? Winning keeps parents writing checks and getting better seeding at tournaments. Let's not even talk about how embarrassing it is to post a loss on Facebook.

That’s a parent problem not a league or club problem. Everyone wants clubs to change but no one wants to change themselves.

It’s a societal issue with personal accountability.

 

[Kicker4Life]

I don’t know enough about her youth story. What club did she play for? What league ? Curious. If this is a knock on me for taking my DD out of ECNL to go play MLS then my response is that I don’t live in SD so she can learn the type of soccer that I think all youth should be training. As far as trophies, sure that was the past and I learned my lesson. Not too concerned about winning but I originally left Ole not so much to chase trophies but to be in a team that was going to get invited to all the major tournaments and to play vs the best of the best. I think there is value making it to finals and playing in big games. Will definitely make you strong minded player. The one thing I give credit to Blues is that they know how to work the kids mentality and make them tough. So she got that from there. She got the initial possession from ole and the futsal reinforced it. She’s a 3 time national futsal champion. Now why MLS next. First and foremost I need to have her in a fast pace environment where the speed of play will challenge her to make the right decisions quicker under pressure to keep improving her technique under more pressure and with less time and space to adjust her directional touch. She’s not just playing on the sides. She’s playing in the midfield and also as a false 9. A few years of that, when she comes back to the girls game they will be playing in slow motion from her perspective because of that experience. Playing in the midfield vs the best boys in the country is not an easy task much harder than playing the laterals. It requires tremendous technique under pressure and an innate ability to think before you act. Priceless development for a future #10

She played for Beach FC, her entire career. So it was SCDSL, then DA then ECNL.

Not sure why you would take it as a knock on you, but I applaud you for taking your daughter and playing her in an MLS league. That is something that a T and her sister GT both have done and had tremendous success.

Everyone has their own path. Often times parents push it and go chase the trophy and sometimes they do it for the right reasons when the coaching is legitimately better. But more often than not I’ve seen those who have opted to make long drives to play for a big trophy Clubs come back a year or two later with regret. Again, not a knock on you, but more of a warning for all those out there who may be reading this thread.

 

[Grace T.]

That’s a parent problem not a league or club problem. Everyone wants clubs to change but no one wants to change themselves.

It’s a societal issue with personal accountability.

Everything has a cause. In this case the winning is everything attitude is rooted in that youth soccer is different things for different people. For the vast majority it is like little league so winning is literally everything...it's why they are there. And it really only takes a handful of those people to poison the well, because they tend to be the most vocal. For another chunk it's college, but the team has to be good enough then to get the key showcases and get seen by the right people, but also to develop, and the parents don't have a rubric to measure development outside of the wins. For another much smaller it's potential pro/WNT path where development most matters.

On the boys side it gets better the higher up you move the ladder, with AYSO core being the most crazy. At the academy level, there's a long line of boys trying to get into even the worst team, and even the lower level academy teams can beat up on the regular MLS Next teams, so there's no real danger even a poor season will blow up the team.

It's a structural issue, which the solution is we are talking future pros, is probably to separate them and to, like Europe, go even earlier into the academies. Ideally, we'd reform the transfer fee issues as well which would mitigate a lot of this, but that's realistically not going to happen.

 

[espola]

I don't think AYSO kids and parents care about possession. I'll bet, in most cases, they're invested about 5 hours per week, max, and care about winning. It's the lack of commitment that results in a lack of patience and, if you try to have 12 year olds play possession soccer, they're going to lose 7-1 every Saturday. Some jackass is going to put his best athlete in the 9 and over the top... over the top... over the top, etc. It's counter intuitive.

Is there any American sport that rewards "possession" over scoring?

Soccer doesn't.

 

[socalkdg]

Why AT v TR? Not sure who SM is but assuming it’s AM, I disagree. AT, SS, TR of LW would have been an interesting front line!

MS, SS, TR for my line in the olympics. CM attacking mid, AT first off the bench.

 

[Kicker4Life]

MS, SS, TR for my line in the olympics. CM attacking mid, AT first off the bench.

But MS was unavailable, and I think CM is actually KM if we are on the same page. unless you mean CM, who was also unavailable. But does bode well for the future.

 

[LASTMAN14]

All the abbreviations remind me of this movie line….
“Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P.”

 

[Carlsbad7]

I don’t know enough about her youth story. What club did she play for? What league ? Curious. If this is a knock on me for taking my DD out of ECNL to go play MLS then my response is that I don’t live in SD so she can learn the type of soccer that I think all youth should be training. As far as trophies, sure that was the past and I learned my lesson. Not too concerned about winning but I originally left Ole not so much to chase trophies but to be in a team that was going to get invited to all the major tournaments and to play vs the best of the best. I think there is value making it to finals and playing in big games. Will definitely make you strong minded player. The one thing I give credit to Blues is that they know how to work the kids mentality and make them tough. So she got that from there. She got the initial possession from ole and the futsal reinforced it. She’s a 3 time national futsal champion. Now why MLS next. First and foremost I need to have her in a fast pace environment where the speed of play will challenge her to make the right decisions quicker under pressure to keep improving her technique under more pressure and with less time and space to adjust her directional touch. She’s not just playing on the sides. She’s playing in the midfield and also as a false 9. A few years of that, when she comes back to the girls game they will be playing in slow motion from her perspective because of that experience. Playing in the midfield vs the best boys in the country is not an easy task much harder than playing the laterals. It requires tremendous technique under pressure and an innate ability to think before you act. Priceless development for a future #10

As someone with a daughter that plays on a boys team 1× a week (practice only) + has been doing it for several years here's a little advise if your ultimate plan is to return back to the girls game.

Boys and girls at the highest levels play very differently. Girls tend to do exactly what the coaches say. Boys 3 out of 4 times will do what coaches say but 1 time will something different if it works they keep doing it unless a coach addresses + says not to. Over time this type of behavior adds up + is what evolves the boys game faster than the girls. (Looking at things purely from a skills perspective)

Boys simply are stronger, faster, and bigger than girls. It's hard for girls to compete if a ref is allowing "battle" soccer over skills.

Here's one you don't know yet but will quickly figure out. When you go back to the girls game your daughter will have more skills than her teammates but she'll regress quickly because the girls around her aren't as good as the boys were.

To truly take advantage of the skills girls gain playing with boys you need a group of 3-4 mids that are all doing it at the same time.

 

[Slobodan]

But MS was unavailable, and I think CM is actually KM if we are on the same page. unless you mean CM, who was also unavailable. But does bode well for the future.

I think CM is Catarina Macario. Took me 2 hours to figure out MS is Mallory Pugh. I'm wondering why we can't just use last names.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

With the pool of selection of players US soccer has I wouldn’t be choosing non athletic players that have great technical skills. While they may shine in lower leve games, they won’t make it at the higher levels. If I were US soccer I’d be looking fast, strong athletic technical players that are coachable and that have the ability to understand and apply tactics. There is a minimum threshold needed for speed, stamina and strength required to play at the highest level. You just gotta make sure that these athletes have good technique and a brain to play the game. let’s be honest athleticism matters but it better come with technique and a brain. We don’t need track stars. Just fast enough and strong enough. US soccer seems to be only looking at track stars.

I always shake my head when we hear about coaches taking athletes over players with good technical skills. We never hear about such a thing in basketball because the game is different. As noted on this thread, at an early age, it's easy to win at soccer with better athletes, as players with the technical skills to overcome this athleticism are rare, even in Spain, I would guess. The challenge of changing our culture to accept "development over winning" is daunting. Instead, US Soccer should support changing the game of competitive youth soccer. Have two games in one. Half of the game day is spent with the same game they play now. The other half is spent playing a "small-ball" game without a goalie, emphasizing the skills and tactics of possession. I won't claim to know any offhand, but Deza used many, and I'm sure we could find an appropriate one. I just realized this could also double the number of trophies per tournament.

 

[Ellejustus]

I always shake my head when we hear about coaches taking athletes over players with good technical skills. We never hear about such a thing in basketball because the game is different. As noted on this thread, at an early age, it's easy to win at soccer with better athletes, as players with the technical skills to overcome this athleticism are rare, even in Spain, I would guess. The challenge of changing our culture to accept "development over winning" is daunting. Instead, US Soccer should support changing the game of competitive youth soccer. Have two games in one. Half of the game day is spent with the same game they play now. The other half is spent playing a "small-ball" game without a goalie, emphasizing the skills and tactics of possession. I won't claim to know any offhand, but Deza used many, and I'm sure we could find an appropriate one. I just realized this could also double the number of trophies per tournament.

Small ball soccer is the best way to go, even when the girls are older. 5 v 5 keep away and look for ways to move without the rock in small sides and give and the go. I also think both and works here. Maybe play one tournament a quarter for the medal chasers, then the other weeks in between, will be small sided, no GK league. Have some sort of rule that demands all players touch the rock before you look to score.

 

[Grace T.]

As someone with a daughter that plays on a boys team 1× a week (practice only) + has been doing it for several years here's a little advise if your ultimate plan is to return back to the girls game.

Boys and girls at the highest levels play very differently. Girls tend to do exactly what the coaches say. Boys 3 out of 4 times will do what coaches say but 1 time will something different if it works they keep doing it unless a coach addresses + says not to. Over time this type of behavior adds up + is what evolves the boys game faster than the girls. (Looking at things purely from a skills perspective)

Boys simply are stronger, faster, and bigger than girls. It's hard for girls to compete if a ref is allowing "battle" soccer over skills.

Here's one you don't know yet but will quickly figure out. When you go back to the girls game your daughter will have more skills than her teammates but she'll regress quickly because the girls around her aren't as good as the boys were.

To truly take advantage of the skills girls gain playing with boys you need a group of 3-4 mids that are all doing it at the same time.

I think you are being generous with 3 our of 4 times. It's more like 1 out of 4, especially once the testosterone starts to surge. 1 out of 4 they are doing what the coach tells them to. 1 out of 4 they might do something experimental and challenging. 2 out of 4 they are neglecting prior instructions given and/or goofing around because they think they know better (but really don't). Boys once the juice starts flowing are idiots. The game evolves despite them because of the vast differences in body types, and the fact they all begin to revel in it and think they are supermen.

 

[Ellejustus]

Well we already have something like that. Futsal. It’s 5v5 and it will enhance your technical skills, speed of play tenfold. What clubs should do is start their baby league futsal program. Similar to what Blues did last year. Have them play futsal until about 14/15 simultaneously with soccer. Once more clubs follow path. You start a futsal league and you have a season for it and tournaments. One of the reasons why my DD can play with boys is because of her technical ability and fast speed of play from the last few years of futsal. She’s a 3 time futsal national champ and arguably the best 2010 girl futsal player in the country..

Luis, I played indoor soccer as a youth. Is futsal similar? Do they keep score and have prizes for the champs? Anyway, we played AYSO 11 v 11 in the Fall and Indoor Soccer in Winter/Spring. I loved kicking against the wall in indoor. I don't think futsal allows you to kick against the wall? I like the idea though. I will admit, I helped my daughter chase medals as a youth and it was addicting, especially because she won so many big tournaments and championships. However, looking back, we need to develop the youth locally and play locally and not teach winning. Winning might be how to collect a ball in the air or learning how to bend it like Messi. If you become a Messi or OM at 13, well then you can move to Spain to play full time prodigy and learn from the champs, who worked hard and chased that world cup trophy this time at WC. I really like the back and forth were having here.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Well we already have something like that. Futsal. It’s 5v5 and it will enhance your technical skills, speed of play tenfold. What clubs should do is start their baby league futsal program. Similar to what Blues did last year. Have them play futsal until about 14/15 simultaneously with soccer. Once more clubs follow path. You start a futsal league and you have a season for it and tournaments. One of the reasons why my DD can play with boys is because of her technical ability and fast speed of play from the last few years of futsal. She’s a 3 time futsal national champ and arguably the best 2010 girl futsal player in the country..

Agree x1000 about young players and futsal.

More touches + faster speed of play + higher scores. Basically everything players do on the field is amplified.

Once you hit 11v11 Futsal skills aren't as helpful because the field opens up + players start doing tactics that aren't the same as small sided games. But having a strong base of footskills that comes from futsal is never a bad thing. Players just need to understand that field and futsal are 2 seperate things on an 11v11 field.

What's funny is after your kid plays Futsal as a younger you'll be able to see the movements it encourages. In a 7v7 game once you know what to look for it's easy to tell which players are playing Futsal and which ones likely arent.

 

[Slobodan]

Small ball soccer is the best way to go, even when the girls are older. 5 v 5 keep away and look for ways to move without the rock in small sides and give and the go. I also think both and works here. Maybe play one tournament a quarter for the medal chasers, then the other weeks in between, will be small sided, no GK league. Have some sort of rule that demands all players touch the rock before you look to score.

Have to agree with this. In fact, my daughter and 2 pals won a 3 v 3 tournament against boys because they understood passing lanes, forwards are defenders and defenders are forwards. Those small sided games teach an awful lot and, IMO, don't get utilized enough.

 

[LouSag]

Well we already have something like that. Futsal. It’s 5v5 and it will enhance your technical skills, speed of play tenfold. What clubs should do is start their baby league futsal program. Similar to what Blues did last year. Have them play futsal until about 14/15 simultaneously with soccer. Once more clubs follow path. You start a futsal league and you have a season for it and tournaments. One of the reasons why my DD can play with boys is because of her technical ability and fast speed of play from the last few years of futsal. She’s a 3 time futsal national champ and arguably the best 2010 girl futsal player in the country..

All players that want to play at the top level should play Futsal until the age of 14/15. Clubs need to invest in this much more. South American, Portugal, and Spain youth systems demand it. It’s great that your DD plays futsal, however…..
The futsal national championships, whether USYF or USSF are nothing to brag about. Most of the futsal is not good. Most of the coaches at these tournaments have no clue what they are doing. As your daughter ages up to the u15/16 futsal age groups, they can’t even find enough teams to enter the tournament in Kansas City. Hence, combined age groups to fill the brackets. Got a few national futsal national titles in my household too, so been there, done that, and not paying for the X-country experience to play against some poor futsal clubs. Furthermore, the US women’s futsal national team is the worst of pay to play. If you’ve got $10 grand to drop, they will sign you immediately to the “National Team” to go play for a week over Xmas in Spain or Portugal.

 

[Ellejustus]

there is a big difference between futsal and arena soccer which you are referring to. Arena soccer has walls so you can pass to yourself. Futsal has out of bounds lines like a basketball court. So you gotta be way more technical to manage the ball from going out of bounds. You need to make accurate pin point passes and keep the ball moving fast. It’s very team oriented. Yes they do have scores but that’s what makes it fun for the kids. Because they get to score way more. I’ve seen games where teams are up 8-2 and within 5 minutes it could be 8-8. Very intense to watch and nerve racking. I can tell you from experience being in the biggest games in the country.My wife has had to walk away a few times cause she couldn’t handle the nerves. I don’t know how some of the little ones do it but it makes them mentally tough as well. Since it’s only 4 field players and 1 goalie you can have 1 player take over like Kobe Bryant and they become the hero of the game.
I love that part since I’m a big basketball fan. I
Think you would love it if you love B ball. Not saying I encourage them to do that but it’s possible because 1/5 can affect the game much more than 1/11. In outdoor soccer it does not make sense. But futsal well it’s ok at times especially if there are minutes to go and you down by a small margin. You need that player to do something special.

I like futsal over Indoor.