Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL

rainbow_unicorn said:
It's not up to the players...It's US Soccer. Doesn't matter how technical/tactical players are...US Soccer has shown that they value athletic, direct, aggressive, heads down dribbling, lower IQ players from an early age. US Soccer would need to completely overhaul their approach and system of play and I don't see that happening anytime soon. We'll need to get humiliated at another 1 or 2 Olympics/World Cups for that complete overhaul to happen.
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Agree x10000 on this one US Soccer is inept + doesn't know what they're doing.

Here's an example. My kids team is highly ranked locally and nationally but nobody on the team has been approached about USWNT ID sessions or anything like that. I know this is occurring at other teams that are similarly ranked and age groups. Im sure if I wanted to chase down whoever the Socal recruiter is I could generate some interest in the team/players. But, that's not my job its US Soccers responsibility to find talent. I'm sure if we changed clubs suddenly more opportunities would become available. If my kids team is experiencing this type of action from US Soccer how many other teams experience the same? How much talent is being overlooked?

Either way it doesn't matter US Soccer sucks + what they fielded in the World Cup is the result. Things won't get any better until the USWNT gets pummeled multiple times and the losses force change.

You can't make people change when they're fat and happy doing what they think works. I'm sure US Soccer views USWNT results this year as pretty good + they can't be the campions every World Cup. But when you look at the number of US soccer players compared to other countries they should be ashamed the available talent pool is 100x the size of our competitors.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Agree x10000 on this one US Soccer is inept + doesn't know what they're doing.

Here's an example. My kids team is highly ranked locally and nationally but nobody on the team has been approached about USWNT ID sessions or anything like that. I know this is occurring at other teams that are similarly ranked and age groups. Im sure if I wanted to chase down whoever the Socal recruiter is I could generate some interest in the team/players. But, that's not my job its US Soccers responsibility to find talent. I'm sure if we changed clubs suddenly more opportunities would become available. If my kids team is experiencing this type of action from US Soccer how many other teams experience the same? How much talent is being overlooked?

Either way it doesn't matter US Soccer sucks + what they fielded in the World Cup is the result. Things won't get any better until the USWNT gets pummeled multiple times and the losses force change.

You can't make people change when they're fat and happy doing what they think works. I'm sure US Soccer views USWNT results this year as pretty good + they can't be the campions every World Cup. But when you look at the number of US soccer players compared to other countries they should be ashamed the available talent pool is 100x the size of our competitors.
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I was told if I pulled my kid from the now failed GDA and the #1 club and actually supported her playing High School Soccer she would be banned and blacklisted by the assholes in charge. We have some selfish fathers that got their hands on the Holy Grail. 99% want college for their kid and getting on that U14 List is gold bro. That list goes to all the top Big U coaches and then the rest is history. Something smells rotten. I really love our country and love fair competition. We really need to get "rich dad" out of the sport. This guy pulls all the strings because he's worth millions. Pay for Play is real.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Exactly the same result as what clubs in Europe do with a Transfer Fee.

The problem with what you're proposing is DA or whatever you want to call it this time isn't paying $$$ to lower level clubs to push up players to a higher level. Without money changing hands everything breaks down and becomes a buddy system or even worse parents start paying to get their kid pushed up to the next level.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. ;-)
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Absolutely, Free Market system results will beat a Socialized system every time.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Agree x10000 on this one US Soccer is inept + doesn't know what they're doing.

Here's an example. My kids team is highly ranked locally and nationally but nobody on the team has been approached about USWNT ID sessions or anything like that. I know this is occurring at other teams that are similarly ranked and age groups. Im sure if I wanted to chase down whoever the Socal recruiter is I could generate some interest in the team/players. But, that's not my job its US Soccers responsibility to find talent. I'm sure if we changed clubs suddenly more opportunities would become available. If my kids team is experiencing this type of action from US Soccer how many other teams experience the same? How much talent is being overlooked?

Either way it doesn't matter US Soccer sucks + what they fielded in the World Cup is the result. Things won't get any better until the USWNT gets pummeled multiple times and the losses force change.

You can't make people change when they're fat and happy doing what they think works. I'm sure US Soccer views USWNT results this year as pretty good + they can't be the campions every World Cup. But when you look at the number of US soccer players compared to other countries they should be ashamed the available talent pool is 100x the size of our competitors.
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Just go their website and they say it right there under the second philosiphy bullet point1692723944791.png
 

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Luis Andres said:
I totally agree. It's going to be up to the next generation of players that will eventually replace the current players to make it happen cause it is not going to happen with the current group and they will not replace the players they have now to rebuild this team. They most likel;y will keep playing similar to the way they play now but I expect the younger players to atleast make an attempt to connect better having more chemistry with each other. We have the athletes but they lack the required technique and tactics. Don't expect the US to win another world cup for atleast 8-12 years. For me the ideal soccer player is a great athlete thats also tactical and technical. Also, I don't expect the US to recruit technical players that are not athletic and fast enough. Unless this player is extremly smart then maybe a non athletic technical player maybe considered if she makes a good fit.
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I think what happens is what we are starting to see on the mens side.

Go back and look at rosters for our world cup teams over the last 30 yrs. Initially they were almost all from college teams.

Over time that started to change. And you start to see more MLS players on the rosters. Later you start to see players playing in Europe (mainly 2nd tier leagues).

And in the most recent world cup a major percentage of the team was playing with teams in the top divisions in Europe. The quality of the team was noticeably better vs years past. Much higher skill level in my opinion. Better ball movement, etc. For comparison in the most recent Gold Cup a month or so ago the roster was comprised of almost all MLS players. The quality of play was noticeably different vs the World Cup squad which consisted primarily of US players playing in Europe.

I think what we are seeing is the MLS is getting better. As it gets better, the best players are getting looks in the Euro leagues. That experience helps tremendously.

Right now it appears the best leagues for women are in Europe. As our NWSL gets better, the best talent will move to Europe and play there. In time that will help the US become better.
 
Desert Hound said:
I think what happens is what we are starting to see on the mens side.

Go back and look at rosters for our world cup teams over the last 30 yrs. Initially they were almost all from college teams.

Over time that started to change. And you start to see more MLS players on the rosters. Later you start to see players playing in Europe (mainly 2nd tier leagues).

And in the most recent world cup a major percentage of the team was playing with teams in the top divisions in Europe. The quality of the team was noticeably better vs years past. Much higher skill level in my opinion. Better ball movement, etc. For comparison in the most recent Gold Cup a month or so ago the roster was comprised of almost all MLS players. The quality of play was noticeably different vs the World Cup squad which consisted primarily of US players playing in Europe.

I think what we are seeing is the MLS is getting better. As it gets better, the best players are getting looks in the Euro leagues. That experience helps tremendously.

Right now it appears the best leagues for women are in Europe. As our NWSL gets better, the best talent will move to Europe and play there. In time that will help the US become better.
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Great takes Hound :)
 
Desert Hound said:
I think what happens is what we are starting to see on the mens side.

Go back and look at rosters for our world cup teams over the last 30 yrs. Initially they were almost all from college teams.

Over time that started to change. And you start to see more MLS players on the rosters. Later you start to see players playing in Europe (mainly 2nd tier leagues).

And in the most recent world cup a major percentage of the team was playing with teams in the top divisions in Europe. The quality of the team was noticeably better vs years past. Much higher skill level in my opinion. Better ball movement, etc. For comparison in the most recent Gold Cup a month or so ago the roster was comprised of almost all MLS players. The quality of play was noticeably different vs the World Cup squad which consisted primarily of US players playing in Europe.

I think what we are seeing is the MLS is getting better. As it gets better, the best players are getting looks in the Euro leagues. That experience helps tremendously.

Right now it appears the best leagues for women are in Europe. As our NWSL gets better, the best talent will move to Europe and play there. In time that will help the US become better.
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I like your POV makes sense. Once we have enough US women playing in European leagues then I can see a brand new style of Soccer for US women's national team because they will be playing under high level European tactics from established clubs. This is why I'm preparing my little one for Europe. Met a great Spanish scout contact at the last boy's tournament we went to. They saw her play and he aproached me about taking her to Madrid to the Real Madrid girls youth Academy by the end of the year so they can check her out. He thinks she could be a good fit and will only get better if she works with the Academy.
 
Luis Andres said:
I totally agree. It's going to be up to the next generation of players that will eventually replace the current players to make it happen cause it is not going to happen with the current group and they will not replace the players they have now to rebuild this team. They most likel;y will keep playing similar to the way they play now but I expect the younger players to atleast make an attempt to connect better having more chemistry with each other. We have the athletes but they lack the required technique and tactics. Don't expect the US to win another world cup for atleast 8-12 years. For me the ideal soccer player is a great athlete thats also tactical and technical. Also, I don't expect the US to recruit technical players that are not athletic and fast enough. Unless this player is extremly smart then maybe a non athletic technical player maybe considered if she makes a good fit.
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And this is the problem. The USA youth system has a women’s version of a Pirlo—the slowest player on the field. They need 2-3 players like Pirlo ( or Iniesta to name another) who is a great passer, technical player, tactical genius and reads the game so well. The USWNT wants players who can run thru a brick wall, who lack touch, and create breakaways. Until the USWNT figures this out, they will lose to the Spains and Japans of the world.
How many players from Japan would have made the USWNT roster for this World Cup? Zero.
 
Luis Andres said:
I like your POV makes sense. Once we have enough US women playing in European leagues then I can see a brand new style of Soccer for US women's national team becasue they will be playing under high level European tactics from established clubs. This is why I'm preparing my little one for Europe. Met a great Spanish scout contact at the last boy's tournament we went to. They saw her play and he aproached me about taking her to Madrid to the Real Madrid girls youth Academy by the end of the year so they can check her out. He thinks she could be a good fit and will only get better if she works with the Academy.
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This mirrors what I saw with Benfica when they held a camp at PLNU.

The coaches knew exactly what they were looking for + the type of player that would work in an Academy system.

There's definitely opportunity in Europe starting to happen for girls/women.
 
Luis Andres said:
From what I got when reading that bullet point is that if you are not playing with a club that has the established connections with the US scouts then you may be out of luck. Seems a bit unfair for the smaller clubs imo.
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That is the truth. US Soccer is lazy. If your kids stands out in the GA, NPL, ECRL or at a lower level ECNL team, US Soccer isn’t gonna watch them play….ever.
If they are good enough, put that player into the big pond and see how they do. You have to play against the best to get better.
Using SoCal as example, if your child is good enough to make the first team at Koge or Surf, then they will be seen. I‘m not as good as Luis pulling info, but the Surf website grades success based on players called up for the youth and senior national teams, professional call ups, players placed into college, and national titles…in that order.
 
LouSag said:
And this is the problem. The USA youth system has a women’s version of a Pirlo—the slowest player on the field. They need 2-3 players like Pirlo ( or Iniesta to name another) who is a great passer, technical player, tactical genius and reads the game so well. The USWNT wants players who can run thru a brick wall, who lack touch, and create breakaways. Until the USWNT figures this out, they will lose to the Spains and Japans of the world.
How many players from Japan would have made the USWNT roster for this World Cup? Zero.
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You are probably correct none of the Japanese women would be making the US team. But I think their argument may be that they just don't make a good fit for the current players. The USWNT roster will not change much. So at this moment of time they have to work with the talent they have and wait for the next generation of girls that will play in Europe to form that competitive team that may bring back the glory. We are going to get what we get with this current team. It's way too late for them to develop in to technical tacticians. That process starts from a young age and it requires players to be actively playing in those types of systems.
 
Desert Hound said:
Right now it appears the best leagues for women are in Europe. As our NWSL gets better, the best talent will move to Europe and play there. In time that will help the US become better.
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Europe has some amazing teams, but they also have some really bad teams on the women's side. Almost all of Spain's team played for two European teams, that makes a huge difference always playing together. The USWNT needs to spend more time together so they can play as a team.

61 players from the NWSL played in the world cup this year. If the NWSL plays it right, their next TV contract(which comes after this season) could double the money for player contracts. If minimum contracts move up to 80K and we get more players making 200-500K, combined with US endorsements, players will want to be here for the financial stability. That will keep 90% of the Canadian, US, and Latin American players in the NWSL, as well as drawing in players from other countries.
 
Luis Andres said:
You are probably correct none of the Japanese women would be making the US team. But I think their argument may be that they just don't make a good fit for the current players. The USWNT roster will not change much. So at this moment of time they have to work with the talent they have and wait for the next generation of girls that will play in Europe to form that competitive team that may bring back the glory. We are going to get what we get with this current team. It's way too late for them to develop in to technical tacticians. That process starts from a young age and it requires players to be actively playing in those types of systems.
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Germany is the example to follow. Men’s team got eliminated from the 2015 World Cup and did a top down complete reevaluation of the entire national system beginning at the youth academies. US Soccer should have taken this path starting yesterday. Your comment of 8-12 years for success on the world stage for the USWNT is, I’m afraid, accurate.
 
LouSag said:
That is the truth. US Soccer is lazy. If your kids stands out in the GA, NPL, ECRL or at a lower level ECNL team, US Soccer isn’t gonna watch them play….ever.
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This is exactly the problem. Even for the youth teams USWNT is pulling from groups that favor size and boot it up over skill.

Everyone seems to know what needs to be addressed but nothing is changing.
 
From Jill Ellis covering many of the points listed here.



Such discussions should include changes at the U.S. youth development level, she added.

"At the end of the day, you want the best players to train with the best players," Ellis said. "I mean, the ECNL had a 6-0 semifinal. There's so much disparity in that league, and it's the best."

The Elite Clubs National League, or ECNL, is the premiere youth developmental league in the United States for girls.

"The beauty of the smaller countries is they get the best to train with each other, so how do we look at that environment?" Ellis added. "How do we get the best coaches in the youth environment? The training environment matters."

Ellis is president of San Diego Wave FC in the National Women's Soccer League.

The NWSL does not have a homegrown player rule, which would incentivize teams to develop young players so they can have first dibs on signing them professionally, but sources have told ESPN it is an idea that's been under discussion for years. Only half of the teams in the league have their own youth academies.
 
socalkdg said:
From Jill Ellis covering many of the points listed here.



Such discussions should include changes at the U.S. youth development level, she added.

"At the end of the day, you want the best players to train with the best players," Ellis said. "I mean, the ECNL had a 6-0 semifinal. There's so much disparity in that league, and it's the best."
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Who gets to decide who the best players are? Our so-called scouts are not independent, and they must answer to the Doc and take Docs recommendations because Doc knows who the best can be. They also have to answer to the God Fathers of all these top clubs. No joke, but when a Doc talks to a potential goat these days, he goes and meets daddy to see how good the player can become. If daddy is driving a BMW and wearing a Rolex, Doc see's the potential for becoming elite and one of the best.
 
At the youth level, U17 and U20, there is no reason why the US should not do better. In fact, in the last U17 cycle leading to the India World Cup, a few weeks before the WC the US defeated and tied Spain in two games, defeated Germany and defeated Japan. The US team were playing great soccer, because their coach had the correct idea of treating the ball with respect, being patient and control possession as much as possible. It took her 4 camps to select a team and a few more camps leading to the WC to play that way, but by the end of the preparation she got them to play correctly. So the players, at least at the youth level, do exist.
It is a different story at the senior level. Several countries like Spain (France, Germany, England), that have the size or are smaller than California and have a similar or larger population than California, have better professional leagues (sometimes 2 professional leagues). Think about that, imagine California having a professional league of 16-18 teams, with at least 3 teams being able to wipe the floor with any NWSL team. In these countries (sadly for the countries), soccer takes an amazing amount of funding and time resources. They have crazy know-how and infrastructures developed for men, and within a few years they have made them available to women soccer. The level of coaching and the number of coaches, the know-how, are just not comparable and will never be even close.
To start fixing this, teams in the NWSL should be playing much better. They have the money and they should invest it better (better coaching, hiring players not because of past commercial appeal?). Whoever watched Portland vs NC last Sunday (1st and 2nd teams in the NWSL table), after watching Spain vs England the same day, understand that these teams are playing different games. In addition, little by little, more players that think that the pro path is better for them than college, will continue moving younger to the NWSL; some will go to Europe, etc. US domination is over, instead the US will have a good chance of doing well or even winning a WC every now and then.
 
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