When you are concealed carrying and your firearm inadvertently becomes exposed (no longer concealed).
GunScare @ Albion Cup?
- Thread starter PruritusAniFC
- Start date
This could really expand the debate. Oh boy! No weapons should be brought to soccer games. My daughter is 8 and I have not seen this chaos everyone speaks of. I can't relate. We can't even instruct our girls per our club. We are to only be positive and encouraging and not to instruct.
I'm not sure if you read through all the posts or not, but to me it's as easy as pre and post field breech.
Post-breech, and as details have come out, we clearly know which individuals and team by extension are guilty. Azteca should be in deep stuff for that.
Pre-breech, I can tell you no matter what your source says, the sideline and coach behavior towards each other and/or the game officials was extremely poor and contributed towards bringing the situation to a boiling point. Does this mean it's Albion's fault that a kid attacked their player? Of course not! But you cannot ignore factors that played a part and sweep it under the rug.
The only difference between you and I is that you seem to be okay excusing horrible behavior because it's more common than it should be. What a slippery slope that becomes.
Again, there are only rumors as people there pointed to another individual and said he may have had a gun too. Who knows, but what we do know is what has been discussed this far.
Honestly, I'm so tired from this all I just hope the right people do the right thing.
Fair enough. I'm not excusing any bad behavior. Words are words, but assault is assault. I'm distinguishing real causation from emotional causation. We are all responsible for our own actions and some appear to be focusing on the emotional aspects of competitive sports rather than the actual violent act imo. Again though, I wasn't there. Tired of the debate myself. Someone else can judge and fairly decide what to do.
Still though, not a peep about separating teams with the field on the sidelines??? There will always be friction at competitive games. It's not by mistake that there is home and away seating for many high school and college games and they STILL have security. Add young kids and aggressive sports and tensions can flare in a second. It is what it is.
Let's put them right next to each other and then get surprised that tensions flare once in a while!
Separating the parents does no good because someone always thinks they are above the rules and they are usually the ones that are most likely to get out of hand because they are special and thus of
course so is their precious child that how dare that bad ref call a foul on their darling and how dare that punk win a 50/50 ball against tbejr
baby. Refs need to enforce the sides, not only when it becomes problem, managers need to make sure their parents know where ro
sit and other parents need to stop minimizing the bad behavior of other parents of their team.
Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
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outside!
DA
Are Azteca and Aztecs the same club? They sound like different clubs to me.Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
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justneededaname
SILVER ELITE
They are not. The affiliate is a Bakersfield club called Central California Aztecs. The Aztecs in the incident is the name of a team. The club the team is associated with is called Inter America and is based in LA.
Albion and Azteca both need to take action against their sidelines. Yes, the actions of the teenager started it, but there is no reason for the ENTIRE Albion sideline or Azteca sideline to erupt onto the field. The sidelines should have stayed put and let the parents of the boy and the refs/coaches take care of it. If the sidelines stay under control, then it would have been a very manageable situation. The teenager would have been taken under control and arrested. Refs would have called the game for Albion South because an Azteca Spectator's violent conduct caused the game to end. That would have been the end of it and children from other fields could have peacefully finished their day.
We start having mass chaos and violence when the sidelines choose to erupt. That's not controllable and will cause damage beyond that one initial violent conduct.
Any Sideline that chooses to jump into the field to contribute & significantly escalate the violent situation, regardless of who started what, should be banned for a year.
Albion and Azteca both need to come out and say, "We will not allow the sidelines that created the chaos, fear, and emotional damage to hundreds of children at Galway downs during Albion Cup to view State Cup or view their next season's tournaments and league games. We understand the damage our sideline's actions caused to many children. Regardless of CalSouth or criminal decisions, we will do our best to make to make our Southern California Soccer Family feel more safe. Going forward, any ALBION (or Azteca) sideline, that decides to physically impede on the playing field shall be banned games for no less than one year."
One out of control person can be handled but not a whole sideline. Even if that guy just ran out onto the field and yell gun, he could have been managed by referees, dads or coaches that knock him over and contain him but when there's a whole sideline - it's not possible.
If we want to prevent these problems going forward, we have to let everyone know that it's not a free for all gang fight because one jerk acts up. Let the referees and coaches manage it to prevent escalation.
Clubs, like individuals, need to take responsibility for their own groups, not just wait for Cal South. If your kid steals or gets in a fight, you don't wait for the cops or social workers, you manage it within the family first.
Ziggy's interview was very disappointing because he doesn't accept responsibility for what his sideline's action did to hundreds of children. He used the initial perpetrator to defend his entire sideline's lack of self control. It was not one teenager that caused this incident to get out of control. There will always be fights at soccer games because soccer is a physical and emotional game - that's why we have refs and red cards. The adults on the sidelines shouldn't have used it to escalate the situation and now everyone wants to blame one or two perpetrators. Both sidelines own the responsibility.
We start having mass chaos and violence when the sidelines choose to erupt. That's not controllable and will cause damage beyond that one initial violent conduct.
Any Sideline that chooses to jump into the field to contribute & significantly escalate the violent situation, regardless of who started what, should be banned for a year.
Albion and Azteca both need to come out and say, "We will not allow the sidelines that created the chaos, fear, and emotional damage to hundreds of children at Galway downs during Albion Cup to view State Cup or view their next season's tournaments and league games. We understand the damage our sideline's actions caused to many children. Regardless of CalSouth or criminal decisions, we will do our best to make to make our Southern California Soccer Family feel more safe. Going forward, any ALBION (or Azteca) sideline, that decides to physically impede on the playing field shall be banned games for no less than one year."
One out of control person can be handled but not a whole sideline. Even if that guy just ran out onto the field and yell gun, he could have been managed by referees, dads or coaches that knock him over and contain him but when there's a whole sideline - it's not possible.
If we want to prevent these problems going forward, we have to let everyone know that it's not a free for all gang fight because one jerk acts up. Let the referees and coaches manage it to prevent escalation.
Clubs, like individuals, need to take responsibility for their own groups, not just wait for Cal South. If your kid steals or gets in a fight, you don't wait for the cops or social workers, you manage it within the family first.
Ziggy's interview was very disappointing because he doesn't accept responsibility for what his sideline's action did to hundreds of children. He used the initial perpetrator to defend his entire sideline's lack of self control. It was not one teenager that caused this incident to get out of control. There will always be fights at soccer games because soccer is a physical and emotional game - that's why we have refs and red cards. The adults on the sidelines shouldn't have used it to escalate the situation and now everyone wants to blame one or two perpetrators. Both sidelines own the responsibility.
So here is the point that everyone is missing. The guy who never pulled out the gun after the melay was left to walk back to the parking lot alone with his back pack returned 15 minutes later. He looked very much at ease talking and allowing his back pack to be searched. It was a smart move on his part because by then roads were closed helicopter flying he would have been searched and car searched aswell this is my opinion. This isn't what I heard it's what I saw I was feet away from it all. There was a boy 16 years old who strongly admitted he saw the gun yet did not want to get involved and talk to the police. Another kid I talked to said he saw the butt of the gun in his hand from within the camouflaged bag. How can people say with certainty it was just a verbal threat. As witness to it all I'm more convinced he had a gun then no gun. I doubt the police went to his car to search it or even the path by the bushes he walked by while walking away. He walked away with the camouflaged bag people only to return 15 minutes later you think he went to get a hot dog or use the restroom I'm smarter then that.
This is scary. CCW, off duty police, whatever. Don't bring weapons people!!! Emotions run high at these things and people overreact. Not to mention, mass shootings and such.
Lots of things to consider here, but if I saw a 14 year old boy sucker punch my 10 year old boy while playing soccer on a field in which the 14 year old was not even playing, I would have a hard time staying put. That's 40% older and stronger and who knows if he's using a weapon or what have you. I'm human and when my kid is attacked by someone 40% older, highly doubt I sit there and watch! From what I hear, the Albion crowd was just trying to get the kid who ran and assaulted the athlete away from the victim. I wasn't there, but keeping human reaction real here. It is not logical to think a parent is going to sit and watch their kid get pummeled by an older kid not even playing in the game.
My club demands good sideline etiquette and just about every team we have come across has been pleasant for the most part. Emotions run high and people get loud, but most people remain civil. I'll admit I have not seen this type of violence and aggression at a game, ever. Yellow cards and even red cards will come out. It's why refs. have them. Coaches will dispute calls. Boys will get physical and stand their ground. I like to stick with reality. If the sideline behavior was to the point of insults/threats/etc. , action/discussions etc. should take place. If kids played dirty, the same. I just don't blame passion and support for assault.
What's next? No cheering when your team scores, because the other team's fans gets angry and may assault your kids on the field? No using your body, because a kid may fall and older siblings may run on the field and assault your kid?
I don't know the history of either team or club, but I do know without a doubt that assault is assault and never warranted especially from someone on the sideline. Once assault takes place, people have a right to self defense. Take it from there especially with a 10 year old out muscled by a 14 year old.
If these teams have a history of insulting and threatening teams, refs., etc. then of course, they may need to address sideline behavior. The bottom line remains that there was no stampede or physical altercations pre-breach. Now, verbal threats and insults should not be tolerated and should be addressed, but they do not warrant assault, period!
Frank
GOLD
Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
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Wow, talk about poor timing
What's probably going to happen is every club and then parents will get lectured as not a one of them assaulted, threatened, or faked a gun. Everybody else has to modify their sidelines and demeanor at soccer games, because one kid and adult from the same team exhibited horrible, violent behavior.
ItsJustSoccer
BRONZE
I am sure you have, but please tell me you have spoken directly with the detective handling the case.
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
Bottom line. Stupid parents that get too heated up with youth sports. These are the same stupid parents that get mad with refs for making a bad call. Life is not just youth soccer people. Get a life and enjoy watching your kids play regardless of the score or fouls in the game.
Distraction
BRONZE
For four days we have been talking in circles about what happened, who is to blame, and what could be done. But the questions I have still aren't answered. Will gun guy be in San Bernardino on Saturday at State Cup games because the team is on the schedule? and Do I have to be prepared with my player and to run from the fields because a game gets heated and someone claims they have a gun? So far it seems like the answers are maybe and yes. It would be nice if Cal South would at least make a statement acknowledging the events. At practices this week I have talked to parents and know there are teams that are not sure they will have enough players to play this weekend because either they play at Galway Downs and kids are scared to go back there a week later, or they play at San Bernardino and parents are scared gun guy will be there and have another lapse of reason.
ItsJustSoccer
BRONZE
I have the same questions and concerns. Cal South is really showing true colors - they have enough time to post on social media about getting excited about State Cup, but they have yet to say ANYTHING publicly about the incident, not even to acknowledge it.
I can tell you, as someone that was at Galway this past weekend, if we had games at Galway or where either of these teams were playing, we would not be attending.
I can tell you, as someone that was at Galway this past weekend, if we had games at Galway or where either of these teams were playing, we would not be attending.
justneededaname
SILVER ELITE
Is there a field map available for the San Bernardino complex? My dd plays on Saturday at the same times as Gun Guy's team (B2009 Inter-America Azteca) and I would like to know how close we will be to them.
Lambchop
GOLD
Also, who in their right mind in this day and age pretends to have a gun? He had no idea who else might have a gun, hmmm, why would you act like that if you didn't have a gun? His defense, he was attacked??? He certainly looked put together, calmly walking around, hat in place. A lot of questions that still need to be answered. Who was he with? Who did he talk to on the way to the parking lot. Any video or still pictures need to be turned into law enforcement. Parents from those two teams do not have a good reputation, that being said, this falls on the behavior of the moron who went out on the field and assaulted the player and the man demonstrating a threatening stance as if he had a gun (?). Local law enforcement needs to get their sh-- together and not just brush this aside. A full and thorough investigation needs to be conducted before something really terrible happens. There are now plenty of traumatized children and parents who were there. Thank goodness no child was hit by a car as they were running through the parking lot.