GunScare @ Albion Cup?

Stryprod said:
My hope is the "official" video camera on pole at the game was recording to identify all involved.

A good quality photo of the individual has been shared with the Riverside Sherriff's Department as well as tournament officials.

Between that and knowing the team, hopefully they find this individual (if not already) and prosecute to the full extent.
Click to expand...
blam said:
The other issue is 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment original purpose is to allow States to call up their militia so that they could battle against the United States Armed Forces should they decide to leave the union. Back then, muskets and bayonets may be enough to bring down the US Army. Today, people use this law to buy toys like hunting gear. These rifles or hand guns can do nothing when the enemy is the US Armed Forces. 2nd amendment should allow the militia men to get heavier gears like Tanks, Anti Aircraft guns, Bombers etc. etc. We need to rethink the 2nd amendment. The way the 2nd amendment is used today, the state militia would be powerless against the US Armed Forces. With the law only allowing hand held weapons, I don't know how we can use it to defeat the Union if there is a need in the future. Ideas? Seem like not worth the trouble of even keeping this law given all the problem it is causing(random shootings) and no clear sight of it even having a chance to achieve its original intent(defeating the US Armed Forces).

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "
Click to expand...

The interesting thing about stupidity is that when you are stupid you don't know it.
 
way up said:
People act like there have not been scuffles and fights at youth sporting events before here. To be perfectly honest, the thing that scares me the most is the actions that will be taken, because so many people freak out. No gun was even there. A fight broke out. A delinquent child ran on a field and sucker punched a kid. I went to a junior high in Arizona where there was a fist fight after school on a weekly basis year round. I don't want violence around my kid, but watch the news. It's around us all. Noone wants this at our tournaments, but competition can bring the best and the worst in people. Don't blame winning, drinking, or competition. I would bet a lot of money everyone on the field was sober especially the delinquent that sucker punched a 10 year old.

Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged? Games were disrupted and people panicked, but again, NO GUN OR WEAPON! I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!
Click to expand...

Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
 
Dof3 said:
Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
Click to expand...

Someone can act like they have a gun anywhere, anytime. How do you stop that? I don't know the legalities on faking a weapon without a real illegal purpose? That action is what caused what you are describing, but how can the tournament, club, etc. stop this action? Anyone with a backpack can do this.
 
Agree completely, this response was spot on.
Once my kids' school got wind of this incident on Monday, they have offered counseling services to any child that was in attendance at this tournament. Clearly the schools, that weren't there, have an understanding of the severity of the situation....lets hope Cal South gets on board.

Dof3 said:
Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
Click to expand...
 
Fact said:
Still did not answer the question of whether you are quitting soccer if Calsouth does not take action. But that was a given.

Also, nice how you completely ignore the other team that was involved and probably more culpable. Why do you fail to mention the Aztecs? Is it because you hate Albion and want to see their demise? I am not a fan of Noah but at least I can be objective and realize that these types of incidents (minus the gun guy and resulting panic of innocent families) happens all the time and yet little too no action results.
Click to expand...

@Fact - you're talking like Espola right now. (Sorry Espola - you do make me laugh). Yes, I did contact Calsouth and let them know my children will not be playing Calsouth soccer if this will be ignored. I also know others who have done the same. I'm hoping more will too. There are other leagues (NPL), futsal, and indoors.

I failed to mention Aztecas only in the last few because of Ziggy's interview but I've always defended the Albion parent and consistently said both sidelines should be punished bc there was no need for anyone but the Albion parent of the attacked child to run into the field.

I don't know anything about what happened to the guy with the gun except that the cops decided to release him and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South Parents after the cops reviewed evidence. I'm going to accept that the cops have no reason to protect the "gun yelling guy" and did their job properly while reviewing the evidence.

I like Albion and they will not be destroyed after this. Noah has done a great job bringing competition to Surf and bringing ASC to San Diego. @Fact, the only person I know who acts like they always want to take Albion down is you and the one time I agree that Albion needs to do something, you seem protective. I want Albion parents to talk to Noah and let them know how important this issue is to the Albion family.

I'm having a hard time getting consistent info regarding Azteca but I found this email. Hopefully it works. Azteca parents probably have the correct information. Please post it or use it to relay the message that this is not acceptable and you expect them to take action or you'll go to a competitor. Please send the same message to CalSouth.

interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com <interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com>;

@Fact - let's work together to make sure this doesn't get swept under the rug rather than attack each other for our slight differences.
 
I hope that when I say nothing will be done that will help prevent these issues from happening again, I am saying that out of frustration. It is inexcusable when any coach see a player or parent act up, coaches act up, parents allow other parents from their team act up, parents don't have consequences for their kiddos taking a cheap shot at another player during the game, accepting that smack talking ok, .....
 
way up said:
Someone can act like they have a gun anywhere, anytime. How do you stop that? I don't know the legalities on faking a weapon without a real illegal purpose? That action is what caused what you are describing, but how can the tournament stop this action? Anyone with a backpack can do this.
Click to expand...
There are 2 separate questions. One is the legality of faking a gun. This triggers a bunch of potential civil and criminal liabilities for the individual faking it, but in this case the guy is claiming as a defense that he acted in self-defense out of fear for his safety. Whether he did or didn't (and what role he had in instigating things) we just don't know right now and is a question of fact. Even if the cops let him go, the DA might still be reviewing.

Then there's the liability of the venue and organizers. The problem there is the main claim is going to be negligence. The questions there include is could something like this have been foreseen (given the state of the sidelines today it was only a matter of time, but especially after this incident that's going to be hard to get around in the future), and what steps are reasonable for the venue/event to take. Should there be metal detectors before coming onto the field (like there are at theme parks and sporting venues now)? Should bags be banned (like at sporting venues)? What about exits if people were having to climb over fences to get away? What about field conditions if people were tripping over holes to get away? What about field marshals...how quickly did they respond and how quick were the police to get there and what level of training did the field marshals have? Were the field marshals trained in evacuating people in the event of an emergency? Were the teams notified of evacuation routes and evacuation procedures (like we do with cruise ships and airplanes)? Was it acceptable to have no security there, and does that security need to be armed? There aren't any clear answers on this but it's a shifting line as things evolve (stadiums banning bags for example is a recent thing after the Uk stadium bombings).

A lot of the changes will likely be driven by insurers who will exclude liability for events if certain steps aren't taken (and venue owners will insist on the insurance because they don't want to be held responsible for someone else's decisions).
 
Can anyone confirm how old the kid was that ran in from the sidelines?
And was the guy that claimed to have a gun a parent? (Could be another relative, family friendly, etc).
 
Fact said:
I hope that when I say nothing will be done that will help prevent these issues from happening again, I am saying that out of frustration. It is inexcusable when any coach see a player or parent act up, coaches act up, parents allow other parents from their team act up, parents don't have consequences for their kiddos taking a cheap shot at another player during the game, accepting that smack talking ok, .....
Click to expand...
Fact, I understand why you are goading others that say they are going to do X-Z if CalSouth doesn't act because talk is cheap. I also understand why you feel nothing will be done given the past. It all makes sense. But I am happier to see you're human, agree on the severity of this issue, and are frustrated like us.

Maybe instead of focusing on the negative or going after those that at least express a desire to change, maybe focus that energy to support those that want to make a difference - or just leave it be.

If this incident doesn't make a difference, then the only step next is an actual shooting. I don't want it to get there.
 
Grace T. said:
There are 2 separate questions. One is the legality of faking a gun. This triggers a bunch of potential civil and criminal liabilities for the individual faking it, but in this case the guy is claiming as a defense that he acted in self-defense out of fear for his safety. Whether he did or didn't (and what role he had in instigating things) we just don't know right now and is a question of fact. Even if the cops let him go, the DA might still be reviewing.

Then there's the liability of the venue and organizers. The problem there is the main claim is going to be negligence. The questions there include is could something like this have been foreseen (given the state of the sidelines today it was only a matter of time, but especially after this incident that's going to be hard to get around in the future), and what steps are reasonable for the venue/event to take. Should there be metal detectors before coming onto the field (like there are at theme parks and sporting venues now)? Should bags be banned (like at sporting venues)? What about exits if people were having to climb over fences to get away? What about field conditions if people were tripping over holes to get away? What about field marshals...how quickly did they respond and how quick were the police to get there and what level of training did the field marshals have? Were the field marshals trained in evacuating people in the event of an emergency? Were the teams notified of evacuation routes and evacuation procedures (like we do with cruise ships and airplanes)? Was it acceptable to have no security there, and does that security need to be armed? There aren't any clear answers on this but it's a shifting line as things evolve (stadiums banning bags for example is a recent thing after the Uk stadium bombings).

A lot of the changes will likely be driven by insurers who will exclude liability for events if certain steps aren't taken (and venue owners will insist on the insurance because they don't want to be held responsible for someone else's decisions).
Click to expand...

They will have to investigate and figure some things out, but at the end of the day, it started with a sucker punch and some guy faking a gun and no gun shots were heard and no gun was pointed. Lawyers on both sides will hash this out, but I think the kid who threw the punch should be liable and since he's a minor, it would be his parents. Of course, lawyers want more money, so they will throw everything they can in the picture. No way the venue could have foreseen a guy faking a gun or a crowd that panicked. Maybe putting opposing parents so close to each other is a bad idea?? Again, separating home and away teams is the best way to avoid friction!

Oh well, that's my main point. Separating teams not coaches from teams and putting liability on the ones who actually caused the damages. Sucker punch and fake gun Louie assisted in causing the panick. They'll have to review videos to see if the arguments on the side were cringey enough to consider violence could stem from them? What a mess!
 
Emma said:
@Fact - you're talking like Espola right now. (Sorry Espola - you do make me laugh). Yes, I did contact Calsouth and let them know my children will not be playing Calsouth soccer if this will be ignored. I also know others who have done the same. I'm hoping more will too. There are other leagues (NPL), futsal, and indoors.

I failed to mention Aztecas only in the last few because of Ziggy's interview but I've always defended the Albion parent and consistently said both sidelines should be punished bc there was no need for anyone but the Albion parent of the attacked child to run into the field.

I don't know anything about what happened to the guy with the gun except that the cops decided to release him and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South Parents after the cops reviewed evidence. I'm going to accept that the cops have no reason to protect the "gun yelling guy" and did their job properly while reviewing the evidence.

I like Albion and they will not be destroyed after this. Noah has done a great job bringing competition to Surf and bringing ASC to San Diego. @Fact, the only person I know who acts like they always want to take Albion down is you and the one time I agree that Albion needs to do something, you seem protective. I want Albion parents to talk to Noah and let them know how important this issue is to the Albion family.

I'm having a hard time getting consistent info regarding Azteca but I found this email. Hopefully it works. Azteca parents probably have the correct information. Please post it or use it to relay the message that this is not acceptable and you expect them to take action or you'll go to a competitor. Please send the same message to CalSouth.

interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com <interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com>;

@Fact - let's work together to make sure this doesn't get swept under the rug rather than attack each other for our slight differences.
Click to expand...
Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves.

Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.
 
Dof3 said:
Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
[/QUOTE
Dof3 said:
Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
Click to expand...

very well said.....lots of people were traumatized by the events...players, adults, and siblings.
Click to expand...
 
Stryprod said:
Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves.

Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute! Is it possible someone just THOUGHT the gun guy was pulling out a gun when he was pulling out a cell phone and that someone yelled "he's got a gun"??
 
Stryprod said:
Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves.

Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised they were willing to take a potential criminal's words without supporting facts. Either way, I hope Temecula PD & RSD are taking this matter seriously and charge the person if they find evidence contrary to his statement. The least they can file against him is making a false statement to police officers.

CalSouth is looking into this matter and collecting evidence. I think they have to get their ducks in a row before dolling out punishment as they may be liable if they don't do their due diligence before reacting. You are correct - they should release a statement informing soccer parents of their plans.

@lastman This is going to be tougher to sweep under the rug if we continue to keep the subject alive. The other things you are referring to (if I'm on the same page) were easier for CalSouth to stay quiet about because they didn't affect so many different Clubs across CalSouth.
 
To me the legal aspects of this incident are largely irrelevant. Youth soccer should take care of its own business regardless of what the PD does. If you don't regulate your own activities there could be a municipality or gov't agency that will. I don't think any of us want metal detectors and clear bags at soccer tournaments.
 
way up said:
Wait a minute! Is it possible someone just THOUGHT the gun guy was pulling out a gun when he was pulling out a cell phone and that someone yelled "he's got a gun"??
Click to expand...
Must be easy to be a keyboard quarterback when it is not your loved ones under potential threat.

Outside of pulling a gun out, he was doing everything in his power to pretend he had a gun. Why is that so hard to understand?

This individual walked over to grab his bag. Picked it up, unzipped it, stuck his hand in and kept it there as if grabbing/ holding onto something. He then aggressively moved forward, back, side to side for over a minute while those around him said "no, no" and "don't do it, don't do it". He then finally proceeded to flee to the left when someone said gun again and then people were running.

Keep in mind this individual also had time to walk back to the parking lot (or near there) and back for over 5 minutes for being detained. A gun could have just as easily been handed off or dumped.

Any law enforcement officer in this situation would have had firearms drawn and he'd been instructed to drop the bag slowly. Stop pretending it was something else when you were not even there.
 
Emma said:
@lastman This is going to be tougher to sweep under the rug if we continue to keep the subject alive. The other things you are referring to (if I'm on the same page) were easier for CalSouth to stay quiet about because they didn't affect so many different Clubs across CalSouth.
Click to expand...
We more than likely are on the same page in regards to situation I am referring to, it just felt like this could be another moment/scenario where nothing is done.
 
Stryprod said:
Must be easy to be a keyboard quarterback when it is not your loved ones under potential threat.

Outside of pulling a gun out, he was doing everything in his power to pretend he had a gun. Why is that so hard to understand?

This individual walked over to grab his bag. Picked it up, unzipped it, stuck his hand in and kept it there as if grabbing/ holding onto something. He then aggressively moved forward, back, side to side for over a minute while those around him said "no, no" and "don't do it, don't do it". He then finally proceeded to flee to the left when someone said gun again and then people were running.

Any law enforcement officer in this situation would have had firear
ams drawn and he'd been instructed to drop the bag slowly. Stop pretending it was something else when you were not even there.
Click to expand...

O.k. that disputes his claim. I'm asking. I've only heard what you're saying here, so I'm begging the question. You clearly have evidence or knowledge that he was acting and purposefully motioning like he had a firearm in his bag? I'm only asking if it's possible that he did not act or motion like it was a firearm and instead was just reaching for a cell phone in his bag? Video should show this if it is available, right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top