Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
This thread. OMG.
btw I've tried to get Dominic to canx my account to no avail- anyone know how to achieve that??
btw I've tried to get Dominic to canx my account to no avail- anyone know how to achieve that??
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
- Start date
You can just stop posting.
Turn off the power, get up from your now-blank screen, put on your shoes, and take a walk around the neighborhood. How many trees are there? How many different types? How big does a shrub have to be to be* considered to be** a tree?
*grammatically correct repeated phrase "to be"
**another "to be" separated from the others by a single word
Hüsker Dü
DA
So all over the place everyman for himself. Sounds like a Republican solution.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
@Glitterhater - Embrace the crazy, GH. Don't leave us. As with any population, increasing isolation leads to increasing extremism. I believe you are the last one around who will still come on this thread and say, "You guys still debating masks?". Do your part and continue to fight extremism. It's your patriotic duty.
@kickingandscreaming Hey bro, did you get any lotto tickets for the shot? This is some kind of weird, right? Let's just be honest. Andrew is offering anyone from NY a free scratch for a chance at $5,000,000 and some other prizes if they Vax. I personally think this is going to get a lot worse. Gayle over at CBS had a chat with the Dr. F and it was so weird, yet kind of scary.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the initiative which will reward a $5 million first prize - down to the smallest amount of $20, which means "The chances of winning something in this program is one in nine," according to Cuomo's announcement wherein he further declared "everyone wins" given the efforts toward herd immunity. The pilot program starts Monday and is for those individuals who will receive either their first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the single-dose Johnson & Johnson jab at select designated locations.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the initiative which will reward a $5 million first prize - down to the smallest amount of $20, which means "The chances of winning something in this program is one in nine," according to Cuomo's announcement wherein he further declared "everyone wins" given the efforts toward herd immunity. The pilot program starts Monday and is for those individuals who will receive either their first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the single-dose Johnson & Johnson jab at select designated locations.
At least this thread has not spilled over into others.@Glitterhater - Embrace the crazy, GH. Don't leave us. As with any population, increasing isolation leads to increasing extremism. I believe you are the last one around who will still come on this thread and say, "You guys still debating masks?". Do your part and continue to fight extremism. It's your patriotic duty.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
As @dad4 states, we can easily see from excess deaths that many more people have died from COVID than would have died if COVID didn't exist. Of course, @watfly wasn't arguing that people weren't dying from COVID, just that the number may be overcounted as it appears to be in children. With that in mind, the recent behavior of the relationship between cases, hospitalizations, and deaths has changed in a way that is inconsistent with our most at risk of dying from COVID getting vaccinated at a very high rate.
Except for very early in the pandemic when testing was difficult to get, the graphs correlate pretty well with hospitalizations lagging cases by about a week or two and deaths lagging hospitalizations by about a week. However, since mid-April, we have had a 60% drop in cases/day and only a 22% drop in deaths per day. (762-595)/762. Hospitalizations are down 30%. Typically, the lag was about 3 weeks from case to death, and we are over 4 weeks into the drop in cases with no sign of deaths dropping at a corresponding rate to what we have seen previously in the pandemic. I can think of three reasons this is occurring. I am sure there are others. I'd have added that maybe the lag is longer, but then why do hospitalizations still appear to follow the pattern and deaths don't. The inconsistency is that those most at risk are vaccinated at a very high rate, so the death/case should be going down and not up as it has the past few weeks.
1) We are significantly under-reporting cases. I could see this happening to some extent as many who are getting COVID now are younger, have few symptoms or symptoms that are no more than a mild cold. Maybe they aren't testing.
2) We are reaching the "floor" of those dying from COVID faster than the graph indicates and those dying with COVID are having a significant effect on the deaths/case as the number of deaths from COVID has dropped. As an example, if we assume that 300 people die per day with COVID instead of from COVID, the drop in deaths per day from COVID over the same time period I mentioned above would be 36% instead of 22% ((762-300) - (595 - 300)) / (762 - 300). The same assumption (300 people per day dying with COVID instead of from COVID) in January would have had a much smaller effect on the rate of death as the number of deaths was much higher.
Except for very early in the pandemic when testing was difficult to get, the graphs correlate pretty well with hospitalizations lagging cases by about a week or two and deaths lagging hospitalizations by about a week. However, since mid-April, we have had a 60% drop in cases/day and only a 22% drop in deaths per day. (762-595)/762. Hospitalizations are down 30%. Typically, the lag was about 3 weeks from case to death, and we are over 4 weeks into the drop in cases with no sign of deaths dropping at a corresponding rate to what we have seen previously in the pandemic. I can think of three reasons this is occurring. I am sure there are others. I'd have added that maybe the lag is longer, but then why do hospitalizations still appear to follow the pattern and deaths don't. The inconsistency is that those most at risk are vaccinated at a very high rate, so the death/case should be going down and not up as it has the past few weeks.
1) We are significantly under-reporting cases. I could see this happening to some extent as many who are getting COVID now are younger, have few symptoms or symptoms that are no more than a mild cold. Maybe they aren't testing.
2) We are reaching the "floor" of those dying from COVID faster than the graph indicates and those dying with COVID are having a significant effect on the deaths/case as the number of deaths from COVID has dropped. As an example, if we assume that 300 people die per day with COVID instead of from COVID, the drop in deaths per day from COVID over the same time period I mentioned above would be 36% instead of 22% ((762-300) - (595 - 300)) / (762 - 300). The same assumption (300 people per day dying with COVID instead of from COVID) in January would have had a much smaller effect on the rate of death as the number of deaths was much higher.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Do I qualify since I got my vaccine? Seems like I'd have to get a second shot in NY. My expected return is negative if that's the case. Now if I can do it online and take a picture of my card, I'm happy to roll the dice. Also, shouldn't everyone who got a vaccine qualify? Again, procrastination wins the day.
Depending on your risk factors and how highly you personally value your life, you might be money up already.
I think everyone who took the shots should all be awarded with a free scratch. My concern is the Vaxxers getting all mad at folks like me who took a more Holistic & Healthy approach instead of the shots. Seriously, thier should be nothing to worry about on the vaxxer side, right?
Splitting hairs, but I don't have a strong opinion whether deaths are overcounted, I suspect they are because of the CDC's data that says most people had 2.5 comorbidities and some states admitted to counting covid positive murder victims. I do believe that kids hospitalizations are overstated as is evidenced by the study posted (wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that its the same for adults). Even if child deaths are overstated, its still a statistically irrelevant number as published (obviously not irrelevant to those that lost a child).
I actually agree with Dad4 that masks are somewhat effective, I just don't think there is compelling evidence either way in regards to masks in the real world. I firmly believe that masks have been grossly oversold in terms of their effectiveness (I still wear one in public indoor spaces). In the real world masks have limited effectiveness and I believe we've over relied on them. When your told that masks are better than vaccines etc, you are misleading the public. My biggest concern is that those that had symptoms, or known Covid, went out in public thinking their mask would protect others. Also wearing masks after vaccination sends the wrong message about vaccinations. Moving things outdoors is multi times more effective than masks. CDC's own data shows that.
I'm not going to die on the hill of mask effectiveness. I will die on the hill of having had kids back in school full time at the beginning of this school year. I will condemn that policy at every turn for all the reasons previously mentioned.
PS: I do believe that cases are likely understated, and likely materially understated.
Bruddah IZ
DA
"There is plenty of reliable evidence that masks" "do not come close to eliminating transmission"--Dad$
So much for behavior.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Ask Husker.
The big question is people with weakened immune systems.
Autoimmune and transplant patients, for example, often need to take medicine to suppress their immune systems. As a result, the vaccine may not protect them very well. They can get the shot, but their immune system doesn’t build antibodies in response. Or it builds some, but not enough.
So, you might be fine because of age and weight loss. I might be fine, because of the vaccine. But there is a category of people who are vulnerable but cannot be effectively vaccinated.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Fascist.
The vaccines may also be less effective (at least against the India variant) in the very old with comordibities. But that's true of flu too. It's never going to be zero.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
I'm not worried. You being very healthy is a big deal for surviving this virus. I just want a lottery ticket
Bruddah IZ
DA
COVID Charts Quiz
Test your knowledge of how government interventions affected the COVID-19 pandemic.
Looks like Santa Clara wants a report form businesses of all those who got Vaxxed and those who refuse to give out their private medical information out to some office manager who is most like a "you know what." I can;t wait for more counties to follow their lead.I'm not worried. You being very healthy is a big deal for surviving this virus. I just want a lottery ticket
Office manager: hey Frances, did you get the shot bro?
France: F you loser
Office Manager: I'm telling on you. I knew you were trouble when they hired you. You're not a team player and you wont take one for the team. Here, put on this mask until you get your shots
Frances: No
Office Manager: Take it up with HR then.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Don't mess with Francis. He'll kill ya.