Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
Your hypothetical requires a level of trust we just didn’t have.

You don’t get good scientific advice by treating your scientists like contestants on the Apprentice. Last September, Fauci and the civil service staff were busy trying to avoid getting completely sidelined. They were in no position to recommend a major shift in policy, or even do the work necessary to realize that one was warranted,
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Maybe they should have been honest from the start…..we agree that the response to the virus became a political battlefield and we the people are the ones who suffered. Especially here in CA!

But you will not change my mind on what I have said from the beginning, protect the most vulnerable.

Have a nice day!
 
dad4 said:
They were in no position to recommend a major shift in policy, or even do the work necessary to realize that one was warranted,
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They started with a major shift in policy by putting a grossly disproportionate burden on our children, and continued that policy despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In your incredibly rare hypothetical where an asymptomatic child infects a grandparent. Why do you recommend putting the burden on the kids (no school) and not the responsibility on the adults? The normal and customary way we have always handled things in the country is to make the adults responsible.

Also they started with a major policy shift by quarantining healthy people. That's unprecedented and prior to this pandemic has never been recommended.

At the end of the day we have fundamentally different philosophies based on our personal environments. You believe we should always err on the side of caution. I believe we should balance caution with freedom.
 
watfly said:
Don't disagree with moving things outdoors, but for schools that's an extreme and impractical measure given the nominal risk. To be honest whether it's my plan or your plan, the argument is moot since the Unions wouldn't have allowed either.

Here is real life though. Our indoor youth club houses (that aren't on school property) have been open since June (all day since the schools were closed). Serving hundreds of kids, we had some infections among kids and staff, but zero outbreaks and no serious illnesses. Combine that with all the private schools that have operated safely since September. We can speculate all we want, but the proof is in the pudding.
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The proof is in the past respiratory disease data. Data was already moving in the same direction as past respiratory diseases since May 2020. Our old friend Corona was already being destroyed. Hence the flat line for deaths compared to the rocket launched hysteria of the alleged experts. I know it’s shocking to most. But you do have a pretty amazing immune system. We are bathing in 10000000000000000000000000000000 virus’s a day. Or 10 to the 31th if you prefer. Mask are like a virus hotel. The one's that make it through the mask deliver a ton of intel and updates to our immune system. Yes, you were all born with an immune system. Proof? You're still alive after all these years. More proof you say? Have YOUR life insurance premiums increased given how dangerous the world has become? Lol!
 
dad4 said:
Do we believe that 14 year olds typically display more than mild to moderate flu symptoms?

If no, then please replace the word "asymptomatic" with "sniffly". The basic argument is the same:

One moderately sniffly kid gives covid to a second kid, who gives covid to grandma just before he realizes that he has the sniffles.

Same problem for grandma.
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Starts with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
dad4 said:
Wishful thinking.

Can you name anywhere which successfully used quarantine to protect the elderly from a high rate of community transmission? Anywhere on the planet with high cases, no vaccine, but low deaths.....

If the answer is no, then maybe grandma wasn't quite so safe as you imply.
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Starts with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
dad4 said:
Vaccinate the elderly worked. But that isn't what you said.

You said grandma was safe because she was in quarantine.

Is there anywhere in the world which used an elderly quarantine to get that result? Anywhere?
Click to expand...
Starts with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
dad4 said:
Your hypothetical requires a level of trust we just didn’t have.

You don’t get good scientific advice by treating your scientists like contestants on the Apprentice. Last September, Fauci and the civil service staff were busy trying to avoid getting completely sidelined. They were in no position to recommend a major shift in policy, or even do the work necessary to realize that one was warranted,
Click to expand...
You don’t get good scientific advice with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
watfly said:
IDK but I hope they have a good royalty agreement.
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I know who but everyone thinks I'm crazy ass soccer father. POS losers already lost....lol!! BTW, my "S" stands for Slime. Let's just hope the most evil of them all is captured already.
Bruddah IZ said:
The proof is in the past respiratory disease data. Data was already moving in the same direction as past respiratory diseases since May 2020. Our old friend Corona was already being destroyed. Hence the flat line for deaths compared to the rocket launched hysteria of the alleged experts. I know it’s shocking to most. But you do have a pretty amazing immune system. We are bathing in 10000000000000000000000000000000 virus’s a day. Or 10 to the 31th if you prefer. Mask are like a virus hotel. The one's that make it through the mask deliver a ton of intel and updates to our immune system. Yes, you were all born with an immune system. Proof? You're still alive after all these years. More proof you say? Have YOUR life insurance premiums increased given how dangerous the world has become? Lol!
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My pal is making a killing selling life and universal life. Premiums are around the same he says which makes me scratch my brain a little.
 
watfly said:
They started with a major shift in policy by putting a grossly disproportionate burden on our children, and continued that policy despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In your incredibly rare hypothetical where an asymptomatic child infects a grandparent. Why do you recommend putting the burden on the kids (no school) and not the responsibility on the adults? The normal and customary way we have always handled things in the country is to make the adults responsible.

Also they started with a major policy shift by quarantining healthy people. That's unprecedented and prior to this pandemic has never been recommended.

At the end of the day we have fundamentally different philosophies based on our personal environments. You believe we should always err on the side of caution. I believe we should balance caution with freedom.
Click to expand...
You would prefer they had never done the first lockdown? Just issue some voluntary guidance and trust adults to “be responsible”.

Remember that, when we trusted adults to “be responsible”, half the rich people in New York hopped on planes to go to their vacation homes- bringing covid with them. The very first thing they did with their freedom of movement was seed new infection clusters all over the country.

Freedom needs some limits. Had we just kept with the freedom plan, the whole country would have had NYC levels of infection by late April, 2020. And that 2.2 million deaths estimate would have been much more accurate.
 
dad4 said:
You would prefer they had never done the first lockdown? Just issue some voluntary guidance and trust adults to “be responsible”.
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Or maybe we expect experts to be responsible and follow the science that says PCR is the wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in YOUR boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.

dad4 said:
Remember that, when we trusted adults to “be responsible”, half the rich people in New York hopped on planes to go to their vacation homes- bringing covid with them. The very first thing they did with their freedom of movement was seed new infection clusters all over the country.
Click to expand...
Starts with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.

dad4 said:
Freedom needs some limits. Had we just kept with the freedom plan, the whole country would have had NYC levels of infection by late April, 2020. And that 2.2 million deaths estimate would have been much more accurate.
Click to expand...
Starts with the use of PCR testing. Wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
dad4 said:
Freedom needs some limits.
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Got that right. Being free from government tyranny driven by faulty science that relys on the wrong test for determining presence of Corona. Right test for finding corona genetic sequences. Wrong test for determining how long those sequences have been in your boogers. Start there. Otherwise, you're credibility is like Fauci's. And we all know how smart he is.
 
dad4 said:
You would prefer they had never done the first lockdown? Just issue some voluntary guidance and trust adults to “be responsible”.

Remember that, when we trusted adults to “be responsible”, half the rich people in New York hopped on planes to go to their vacation homes- bringing covid with them. The very first thing they did with their freedom of movement was seed new infection clusters all over the country.

Freedom needs some limits. Had we just kept with the freedom plan, the whole country would have had NYC levels of infection by late April, 2020. And that 2.2 million deaths estimate would have been much more accurate.
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Again never "my testimony". Stop trying to pin a no mask, everything open and no precaution policy on me. I never said that and I'm in fact on record as saying I was OK with the initial flatten the curve lockdown. And while not preferable, it was not totally unreasonable to keep schools closed through the end of the last school year. However, not reopening schools for the new school year in Aug/Sep crossed way past the line for me. It was nothing short of reprehensible.

Like I said we will never agree. Your livelihood is entirely dependent on the government, mine is not, and oftentimes government is more of a hinderance to me than a help. Of course, you would want more government intervention and protection.

I believe you have the right to be an idiot in the US; however, I also believe believe you should be held individually accountable for your actions that harm others. Unfortunately, these days it seems were trading individual accountability for government control and victimhood. I don't like that trend.
 
espola said:
What would be a more creative solution?
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Open schools to those that wanted to go back. If they didn't have enough teachers to teach in person, have them Zoom into the classroom. If grandma lives at home, keep your kid at home. If you didn't see grandma for 15 months like us, send your kid to school if you are comfortable. Look at "real world" results before restricting activities such as outside sports, playgrounds, and hiking trails, etc. Oh yeah, don't lie to people and expect them to accept that "it was for their own good". Normally I'd call that common sense, but based on what we have seen at all levels of government, this qualifies as creative.
 
watfly said:
Again never "my testimony". Stop trying to pin a no mask, everything open and no precaution policy on me. I never said that and I'm in fact on record as saying I was OK with the initial flatten the curve lockdown. And while not preferable, it was not totally unreasonable to keep schools closed through the end of the last school year. However, not reopening schools for the new school year in Aug/Sep crossed way past the line for me. It was nothing short of reprehensible.

Like I said we will never agree. Your livelihood is entirely dependent on the government, mine is not, and oftentimes government is more of a hinderance to me than a help. Of course, you would want more government intervention and protection.

I believe you have the right to be an idiot in the US; however, I also believe believe you should be held individually accountable for your actions that harm others. Unfortunately, these days it seems were trading individual accountability for government control and victimhood. I don't like that trend.
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In an infectious disease context, how is it possible to “be held individually accountable for your actions that harm others.”? Can you even define what you mean by that? Or give a workable example of how we could do it?

Supposing I go to a restaurant, catch covid, give it to a senior citizen at the grocery store, and they then die.

How, exactly, do you propose to have ‘individual accountability” for my role in their death?

Sounds like a lot of empty words to me. You can’t even define what you mean by them or how it would work.
 
dad4 said:
In an infectious disease context, how is it possible to “be held individually accountable for your actions that harm others.”? Can you even define what you mean by that? Or give a workable example of how we could do it?
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Accountability? How about you start with the wrong test used to identify CORONA infection.

Otherwise, you're just babblin'.
 
dad4 said:
In an infectious disease context, how is it possible to “be held individually accountable for your actions that harm others.”? Can you even define what you mean by that? Or give a workable example of how we could do it?

Supposing I go to a restaurant, catch covid, give it to a senior citizen at the grocery store, and they then die.

How, exactly, do you propose to have ‘individual accountability” for my role in their death?

Sounds like a lot of empty words to me. You can’t even define what you mean by them or how it would work.
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Simple concept. If grandma or any adult is concerned about getting sick from kids or anyone outside their family, then limit your exposure or do it only fully masked. Masks work right? Or if your concerned about getting it from school children, then don't send your kids to school. If you get sick then you have just been held accountable for your actions and don't play the victim card. Maybe personal responsibility is a better word. Worry about your own behavior, and less the behavior of others. Like I've said many times your behavior, and not the behavior or others, overwhelming impacts whether you get Covid (a car accident probably less so). Your approach is "I don't want to be a victim, so please government control the behavior of others". That's a selfish mentality.
 
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