Bad News Thread

Glitterhater said:
I really wish someone could explain rationally to me why they'd want to defund the police. I'm an open minded person, and think that's the dumbest idea ever, and would solve absolutely nothing.
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Its a very conservative premise with an unfortunate name. Basically, assuming budgets are fixed, money should be rechanneled to deal with the root cause of issues, i.e. be proactive, versus the result of issues, i.e. be reactive. If the root cause remedies have positive results, then, over time, government spending and therefore taxes can be reduced. What could be more conservative than that! Society also benefits in every way.

Keep in mind that the US spends more than $100B annually on policing, and close to the same on incarceration.
 
Glitterhater said:
I really wish someone could explain rationally to me why they'd want to defund the police. I'm an open minded person, and think that's the dumbest idea ever, and would solve absolutely nothing.
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Its part of the woke narrative to make criminals out to be victims. Its not intended to solve anything, its just a political statement.

Many politicians either can't, or don't care, about cause and effect from their policies. They just want to make a statement. Its the biggest problem with subjective governance vs objective governance. You see it with Biden's Keystone pipeline reversal, the pipeline is actually much safer than having the oil come by truck and rail car (part of that is being woke and part is just anti-Trump). You see it with Newsom's prohibition on youth sports as families travel out of state to play which is much riskier. Your seeing it with the decision to keep schools closed. You see it with anti-abortion laws taht make abortion potentially more dangerous. We saw it a century ago with prohibition.

It's going to be very prominent the next 4 years as we see policies based on identity politics, or as it is euphemistically being called "racial equity". (Notice equality, or opportunity, has been replaced with equity, or outcome). Biden and his staff have made it clear that they will be making policy based upon "racial equity".
 
whatithink said:
Its a very conservative premise with an unfortunate name. Basically, assuming budgets are fixed, money should be rechanneled to deal with the root cause of issues, i.e. be proactive, versus the result of issues, i.e. be reactive. If the root cause remedies have positive results, then, over time, government spending and therefore taxes can be reduced. What could be more conservative than that! Society also benefits in every way.

Keep in mind that the US spends more than $100B annually on policing, and close to the same on incarceration.
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What do you spend money on to stop a naked man running through the streets and waiving a knife because he’s on PCP? How about a man that keeps a knife on his floorboard, and likes to punch cops doing their job, after sexually assaulting a woman?

Who do we “rechannel” funds to? You know, conservatively?
 
Scott m Shurson said:
What do you spend money on to stop a naked man running through the streets and waiving a knife because he’s on PCP? How about a man that keeps a knife on his floorboard, and likes to punch cops doing their job, after sexually assaulting a woman?

Who do we “rechannel” funds to? You know, conservatively?
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You're being purposely facetious or just obtuse.
 
whatithink said:
You're being purposely facetious or just obtuse.
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I’m being honest, Mr Dufresne if you please. How do you stop someone from choosing PCP over their meds? How do you force someone to get psychiatric help if they don’t want it? How do you stop a confrontation with police when that individual, long ago, decided violent crime was the path to take?

Seriously. And please don’t give me the typical, bullshit answer of throwing more money at the situation like most liberals do. That never works. All it does is raise taxes. What are your practical ideas for solutions that protect and save lives?
 
Scott m Shurson said:
I’m being honest, Mr Dufresne if you please. How do you stop someone from choosing PCP over their meds? How do you force someone to get psychiatric help if they don’t want it? How do you stop a confrontation with police when that individual, long ago, decided violent crime was the path to take?

Seriously. And please don’t give me the typical, bullshit answer of throwing more money at the situation like most liberals do. That never works. All it does is raise taxes. What are your practical ideas for solutions that protect and save lives?
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We are already throwing more money at the problem. It isn't solving anything. It is raising taxes and/or consuming a larger portion of the taxes raised every year. It isn't working and never will.

I have no issue with my tax dollars being spent on keeping the peace, solving crimes, prosecuting criminals and incarcerating them.

So seriously, do you think the long term solution is to continue to throw more and more money into policing and incarceration?

I don't have a panacea nor is there one. There is a lot of work to be done, in a lot of communities, with their own issues, that could move the needle from more crime to less crime; from having to spend more money on police and prisons, to spending money on education and child care to after school care etc. It will also take a long time.
 
whatithink said:
We are already throwing more money at the problem. It isn't solving anything. It is raising taxes and/or consuming a larger portion of the taxes raised every year. It isn't working and never will.

I have no issue with my tax dollars being spent on keeping the peace, solving crimes, prosecuting criminals and incarcerating them.

So seriously, do you think the long term solution is to continue to throw more and more money into policing and incarceration?

I don't have a panacea nor is there one. There is a lot of work to be done, in a lot of communities, with their own issues, that could move the needle from more crime to less crime; from having to spend more money on police and prisons, to spending money on education and child care to after school care etc. It will also take a long time.
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Yes, I do believe in more money on incarceration, but cemeteries and not prisons. Why? Because I’m tired of people, doing it the right way, being forced to suffer, compromise and otherwise deal with crime. And blaming police, or making excuses that XYZ criminal is a victim because his father wasn’t around, or his 3rd grade teacher didn’t inspire him, is bullshit. We all had choices to make.

So we agree on your 1st two paragraphs but I still don’t see any tangible solutions from you. Or is that just me being obtuse?
 
espola said:
Would the supposed civil war be legal?
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Again it doesn't make sense. A civil war assumes the breakdown of law. In the US Civil War, for example, had the south won they would have said their rebellion was legal (same, BTW, as the American Revolution...was that legal?). The North won, so the South's actions were treason. There is no "legal" in a civil war situation because legality assumes the monopoly of force that the state has. The state has the sole right to exercise violence to punish right and wrong. In a civil war or revolution that monopoly has broken down and been replaced by factional violence.

That's separate and apart from the question of whether something is moral, since morality and legality are separate question.

Wow you are in a Rashomon situation again and you don't even know it.
 
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