Generally yes, because it oftentimes takes emphasis away from substantive measures that work.
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
- Start date
what-happened
GOLD
fancy
I will advance the possibility that I used "fantastic" in a different sense than you read it.
One of the miserable effects of the t years is that many words have been reduced to meaningless spaceholders.
"Criminal"? Isn't that a little vehement?
I will advance the possibility that I used "criminal" in a different sense than you read it.
One of the miserable effects of the t years is that many words have been reduced to meaningless spaceholders.
Whatever happened to cost/benefit analysis?
If experts tell us that masks ( whether of everyone or just unvax) can avoid 100k deaths, then we should put them on this fall and stop complaining. The cost is zero and the expected benefit is positive.
Your overblown talk of "if they make my kid wear one..." is just ridiculous. If asked to help, STFU and do your part to help.
If experts tell us that masks ( whether of everyone or just unvax) can avoid 100k deaths, then we should put them on this fall and stop complaining. The cost is zero and the expected benefit is positive.
Your overblown talk of "if they make my kid wear one..." is just ridiculous. If asked to help, STFU and do your part to help.
The irrational fears of adults shouldn't be the burden of children. STFU and stop making children bear your burdens.
My burden?
We've had 600k people die so far, but I promise you I was not one of them.
And why do you call it irrational? We have had over 600k deaths. The possibility of another 100k deaths is not at all unreasonable.
Unmasking those under 12 is not going to add 100,000 Covid deaths, you're full of crap. Neither is unmasking the vaccinated. You need to nut up and deal with your fears, instead of projecting your fears on everyone else's behavior. Talk about selfish.
The cost isn't zero. If you've looked at any park in Los Angeles and seen the masks strewn about that's pretty self-evident. They don't degrade readily. There is a cost to manufacture them and they aren't free. There are also social and psychological costs, especially what we are doing to children. So if you are going to claim cost/benefit, don't claim zero costs. The "STFU" is nice talk from the guy always decrying the incivility of personal attacks.
Coronavirus face masks: an environmental disaster that might last generations
As face marks and coverings become compulsory worldwide, littering and their potential impact on the environment increases.
theconversation.com
So a bad flu season???
Ah, I see...you used it in the sense as one might, for example describe your entire thought process. Got it.
The cost isn't zero. If you've looked at any park in Los Angeles and seen the masks strewn about that's pretty self-evident. They don't degrade readily. There is a cost to manufacture them and they aren't free. There are also social and psychological costs, especially what we are doing to children. So if you are going to claim cost/benefit, don't claim zero costs. The "STFU" is nice talk from the guy always decrying the incivility of personal attacks.
Coronavirus face masks: an environmental disaster that might last generations
As face marks and coverings become compulsory worldwide, littering and their potential impact on the environment increases.
As I recall California banned plastic bags and at the time we were told there was an enormous environmental cost that required this immediately (as opposed to just telling consumers hey maybe not the best idea).....
Face masks and the environment: Preventing the next plastic problem
Every minute of the day we throw away 3 million face masks. Many end up as potentially toxic micro- and nanoplastic or carriers for other toxicants in the environment, researchers warn.
www.sciencedaily.com
In his defense STFU is the left's default response to an opposing opinion. I was responding in kind which doesn't justify my response.
We do occasionally have extra measures for bad flu seasons.
I don't know whether we will have to do anything this fall. It may be that enough of us got vaccinated or recovered that Delta goes nowhere.
But, if asked to put on a mask, we should each do our part and not second guess it.
we have not, at least in my life time, had a state mask mandate for a bad flu season, despite several that have made their way through
so either we are forced to conclude: a) you believe when we have such bad flu seasons it’s a good idea to have a mask mandate or b) you’ve back tracked and now your argument is an appeal to authority (I.e., defer to experts who may ask for it)
If 2) no thanks...your experts have proven horrible at this. They’ve destroyed whatever trust and goodwill they began this with.
You can drop the appeal to authority if you like. I’d have no trouble wearing a mask if the flu season was likely to cause 100K deaths. It’s just a mask, and I’m not a big fan of the flu.
What trust and goodwill? The right have been second guessing and sniping against public health measures ever since March of 2020. They started with anti-mask protests, moved on to indoor rallies in Tulsa, and began the next year with maskless legislators spreading covid in the capitol. When was this “trust and goodwill” period of which you speak?
It started to go out the window when we were assured it wasn't a significant problem in February 2020 (sure you can ascribe it to China lied, but some of us knew what was coming). Then when they flipped flopped on the mask thing. Then when they said the BLM protests were essential and more important than the lockdowns (but worship wasn't). Yeah, I know it's hard to accept that the public health authorities have been botching this from the beginning....some of it can be ascribed to the fog of war, some of it to just not knowing what we know now, and some of it to the Chinese lying.....but in the end, they largely did it to themselves.
So where is your number on the mask thing? A bad RSV year qualify too....kills 100-200 kids annually, thousands of adults, hospitalizes 15,000...where do you draw your line?
Normal errors during a crisis. Hard to stomach, but also hard to avoid.
What nationally recognized group had better advice at the time? ( Equivalently, do you propose we follow next time? Or do we act like cats? )
The main contrarian view was Trump and his media. Trump was encouraging us all to believe it was a minor blip. Had we followed his advice, we would have had last winter’s surge around May of 2020. At the time, we had no good treatments, no masks, and no vaccines. It would have been a lot worse.
From the Fauci email (see articles above) it's pretty clear Trump was being encouraged in that belief by Fauci.
You yourself have acknowledged seasonality is a big factor. Given the panic (which created self imposed distancing measures), the variant at the time, and seasonality, it was unlikely to have been particularly bad or moved things up any time prior to the fall of 2020. One of your mistaken beliefs is that restrictive measures are possible in perpetuity. They should have been saved for moments when the hospital systems were in fact in danger of collapse.
You are fine to argue that normal errors occur during a crisis and that they are avoidable....but that's pretty hard to reconcile with the notion that we should also just give up our own thinking and defer to the experts making these errors.