Bad News Thread

N00B said:
One might think proximity to the boarder would primarily impact those individuals and communities that have exposure to cross border traffic. (% of the community in those areas and relative distance to the boarder relating to likelihood of a boarder impact)

% of population in TX and CA that are Hispanic is approximately 39% for both states, but only one of those states has large population centers near the boarder, CA. In TX the only approximation is El Paso that faired poorly and is dramatically less populated than SoCal.

San Diego Hispanic % of population
34%

Los Angeles Hispanic % of population
47.5%

Fresno Hispanic % of population
49.5%

I’ll take the boarder for $500 as well. Seems to address the difference in San Diego vs Los Angeles and SoCal vs NorCal.
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A LOT less “essential” factory jobs in SD too
 
dad4 said:
The whole discussion was for a counterfactual world without vaccines.

The question for this world is how to raise the vaccination rate.
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So in this hypothetical world you are asserting that the death rate in NorCal would be less than SoCal due to mask compliance and laundry?

Please continue…. Otherwise it’s disingenuous to say you were responding to the hypothetical, I don’t believe that. You seem logical enough to quote age demographics vs mortality rates or % of population capable of remote work. You didn’t. You referred to masking.

So, if you want to move the goalposts or reframe the argument to your desired outcomes, just be honest about it.

Given the hypothetical you claim to be responding to, are you still saying that NorCal mask compliance or policy is superior to SoCal? Seems that way. I don’t buy it and can’t find empirical support for your position.

Again, please continue and site sources on regional mask compliance, espola would/should ask the same were he not biased (while believing he’s not).

Oh, it’s the LA variant… given the hypothetical, enough time and without vaccination all you have is masks and until you show otherwise, do you still assert that the mortality rate would be different? ‘Cause given enough time regionalist of variants become a mute point.
 
Grace T. said:
Lame dodge. You know what you said and I knew you'd never own up to it.
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I'm not dodging. I'm asking you to be specific with your charges, Ms. Attorney.

BTW,, "The walls keep crumbling around the pro lockdowners" is grace-less dancing on dead people's graves -- hundreds of thousands of them, even if the 25% adjustment holds nationwide.

And if you had read beyond the headline and not just trusted what you had been told the article was about, you would have seen that the problem was specific to one county where they were not following the California guidelines for attributing deaths to covid.

The county’s original method was to attribute a death to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider (like a hospital) listed someone as being positive for the coronavirus at the time of their death.

Balram said the state’s definition was different: A death can only be attributed to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider can show that the person died “as a direct result of COVID-19, with COVID-19 as a contributing cause of death, or in whom death caused by COVID-19 could not be ruled out.” The state came up with this definition late last year in the middle of the pandemic, after Alameda County was already using its method.

“Obviously our definition was broader than the state’s,” Balram said, adding the 411 deaths being removed were “clearly not COVID.”
 
espola said:
I'm not dodging. I'm asking you to be specific with your charges, Ms. Attorney.

BTW,, "The walls keep crumbling around the pro lockdowners" is grace-less dancing on dead people's graves -- hundreds of thousands of them, even if the 25% adjustment holds nationwide.

And if you had read beyond the headline and not just trusted what you had been told the article was about, you would have seen that the problem was specific to one county where they were not following the California guidelines for attributing deaths to covid.

The county’s original method was to attribute a death to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider (like a hospital) listed someone as being positive for the coronavirus at the time of their death.

Balram said the state’s definition was different: A death can only be attributed to COVID-19 if the coroner or medical provider can show that the person died “as a direct result of COVID-19, with COVID-19 as a contributing cause of death, or in whom death caused by COVID-19 could not be ruled out.” The state came up with this definition late last year in the middle of the pandemic, after Alameda County was already using its method.

“Obviously our definition was broader than the state’s,” Balram said, adding the 411 deaths being removed were “clearly not COVID.”
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you said it didn’t happen. We now have 3 instances of an over count: Ventura county, alameda county and nation wide pediatric deaths and hospitalizations. Can’t ever admit you are wrong, huh?

hows it been feeling for the walls of the lockdown church to be tumbling down and your patron saints being tarnished?
 
espola said:
That's not even grammatical.

If you can't show the words I used, there is no way I can respond.
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I think we all know that threads on this topic were deleted in the ‘off topic’ purge of 2020 so direct quotes of prior comments may be inaccessible.

I’ll step out here to say again (only alluded to recently)... your ‘burden of proof’ seems to be very heavily skewed depending on the poster in question and their point of view.

Question everything as a pragmatist if you like, but you don’t question everyone or demand the same level of empirical support from everyone, only those you disagree with…
 
Grace T. said:
you said it didn’t happen. We now have 3 instances of an over count: Ventura county, alameda county and nation wide pediatric deaths and hospitalizations. Can’t ever admit you are wrong, huh?

hows it been feeling for the walls of the lockdown church to be tumbling down and your patron saints being tarnished?
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In fairness, I think he said (approximation from memory) ‘even if there is over counting it is still less than the unreported deaths’… maybe that was dad4, but that was what I recall and I don’t feel the urge to read through all the prior posts to confirm or deny what one individual is unwilling to research on their own to contradict your statement.
 
N00B said:
In fairness, I think he said (approximation from memory) ‘even if there is over counting it is still less than the unreported deaths’… maybe that was dad4, but that was what I recall and I don’t feel the urge to read through all the prior posts to confirm or deny what one individual is unwilling to research on their own to contradict your statement.
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The conversation began when I told him what my relatives observed which is exactly what’s outlined in the article. He challenged it by citing a Medicare article saying it didn’t happen and asking me to prove it. I cited a post from an investigation in Ventura county now in the deleted thread. Since then we’ve also had the pediatric report and alameda county

I have no evidence one way or another if there is an undercount. It’s possible. All I know both from the direct observation of certain relatives and now in 3 press sources that there is an overcount. How much of one who knows.
 
Grace T. said:
you said it didn’t happen. We now have 3 instances of an over count: Ventura county, alameda county and nation wide pediatric deaths and hospitalizations. Can’t ever admit you are wrong, huh?

hows it been feeling for the walls of the lockdown church to be tumbling down and your patron saints being tarnished?
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I have never considered myself to be in anything that might be called "the lockdown church". One of my children lost his job when his company dissolved when their market (sports and theater ticket brokerage) completely disappeared. Another was on unemployment for a while until his workplace (auto dealer) opened back up.

I don't know where you get your fantasies from.
 
espola said:
I have never considered myself to be in anything that might be called "the lockdown church". One of my children lost his job when his company dissolved when their market (sports and theater ticket brokerage) completely disappeared. Another was on unemployment for a while until his workplace (auto dealer) opened back up.

I don't know where you get your fantasies from.
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Sorry to hear about your kids but they are exactly why we fight the fight

but if we are being honest here, your denials not withstanding, you have been on the pro lockdowner side of things from the beginning. To say you haven’t been a supporter of dad 4 and his church is beyond disingenuous
 
Grace T. said:
The conversation began when I told him what my relatives observed which is exactly what’s outlined in the article. He challenged it by citing a Medicare article saying it didn’t happen and asking me to prove it. I cited a post from an investigation in Ventura county now in the deleted thread. Since then we’ve also had the pediatric report and alameda county

I have no evidence one way or another if there is an undercount. It’s possible. All I know both from the direct observation of certain relatives and now in 3 press sources that there is an overcount. How much of one who knows.
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On more than one occasion I pointed out that Medicare/Medicaid pays a premium to hospitals because of the increased costs of dealing with covid patients, even if that is not the reason they entered the hospital.

My entire career depended on finding objective truths in my work. If I had just stuck with wishful thinking, very little that I produced would have worked, so it's a habit to look for background information to back up claims. If you just want to be post anything without being challenged, then perhaps you should stay away from public debates. "My uncle told me..." or "Ted Cruz says..." isn't going to cut it.
 
Grace T. said:
Sorry to hear about your kids but they are exactly why we fight the fight

but if we are being honest here, your denials not withstanding, you have been on the pro lockdowner side of things from the beginning. To say you haven’t been a supporter of dad 4 and his church is beyond disingenuous
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From what I have seen, dad4 is more often correct in what he says than you are. I don't see how my recognition of that fact makes me a "lockdowner". If anything, I am a bemused onlooker, although I skip over entire pages of the thread when you two are arguing about what it is that you're arguing about.
 
N00B said:
I think we all know that threads on this topic were deleted in the ‘off topic’ purge of 2020 so direct quotes of prior comments may be inaccessible.

I’ll step out here to say again (only alluded to recently)... your ‘burden of proof’ seems to be very heavily skewed depending on the poster in question and their point of view.

Question everything as a pragmatist if you like, but you don’t question everyone or demand the same level of empirical support from everyone, only those you disagree with…
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Consider a debate between persons A and B that I find interesting or already have some knowledge about -- if I find or know already facts that support what person A says, and find nothing to back up what person B says, which one should I challenge?
 
espola said:
On more than one occasion I pointed out that Medicare/Medicaid pays a premium to hospitals because of the increased costs of dealing with covid patients, even if that is not the reason they entered the hospital.

My entire career depended on finding objective truths in my work. If I had just stuck with wishful thinking, very little that I produced would have worked, so it's a habit to look for background information to back up claims. If you just want to be post anything without being challenged, then perhaps you should stay away from public debates. "My uncle told me..." or "Ted Cruz says..." isn't going to cut it.
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You said it didn’t happen. It did. When I’ve been wrong I’ve said it including when you called me on the carpet re congressional expulsion. You can’t even muster up that courage to say “ok maybe I was wrong about it”
espola said:
From what I have seen, dad4 is more often correct in what he says than you are. I don't see how my recognition of that fact makes me a "lockdowner". If anything, I am a bemused onlooker, although I skip over entire pages of the thread when you two are arguing about what it is that you're arguing about.
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That’s hilarious because truth is the farthest thing you are about. Your entire thing has been to side with the experts and to side with the lockdowner church. As n008 points out you have different standards of proof depending on the subject and the poster. For you to deny it now, now that the walls are coming down is sad. At least dad4 has the courage of his faith, which I can say at least I admire even if it is just faith
 
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