Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
You’re right that we would also need to impose fines for holding indoor gatherings. I’m ok with that. It’s better than what we have now.
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I'd guess this means a larger police presence and enforcement in areas where the virus is spreading the most. Aren't lower socio-economic neighborhoods spreading the virus at a higher rate? That's just not going to happen.

I feel like your approach to improving the rate of infections is flawed. With every problem, you have a set of initial conditions. If assumptions regarding initial conditions are incorrect, you are unlikely to come up with an optimal solution. "If people would just listen" is not a solution and it's not leadership - it's a failure to understand the people you are addressing.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
I'd guess this means a larger police presence and enforcement in areas where the virus is spreading the most. Aren't lower socio-economic neighborhoods spreading the virus at a higher rate? That's just not going to happen.

I feel like your approach to improving the rate of infections is flawed. With every problem, you have a set of initial conditions. If assumptions regarding initial conditions are incorrect, you are unlikely to come up with an optimal solution. "If people would just listen" is not a solution and it's not leadership - it's a failure to understand the people you are addressing.
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I was writing as an individual to other individuals.

If we insist on following health guidance only when a policeman is standing over us, then we are screwed. But that’s a problem with us, not with the policeman.
 
dad4 said:
I was writing as an individual to other individuals.

If we insist on following health guidance only when a policeman is standing over us, then we are screwed. But that’s a problem with us, not with the policeman.
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No and again that is a problem of you and others failing to realize people are not going to do what you want to do. IE shut it all down. Most people cannot afford to do so, socially people cannot and will not do it. People will not allow their kids to miss out on more education, and the list goes on.

Coming up with unworkable solutions as was pointed out above is not leadership or problem solving.
 
Desert Hound said:
Coming up with unworkable solutions as was pointed out above is not leadership or problem solving.
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Not just unworkable but from the ideas he’s finally put on the table illegal and unconstitutional. Sorry australia and New Zealand might have gone along with it but I’m not going to tear up the Constitution for the Rona. For those that are so willing to do that: would you have also supported Trump declaring it was unsafe to hold an election and postponing it a year?
 
Grace T. said:
Not just unworkable but from the ideas he’s finally put on the table illegal and unconstitutional. Sorry australia and New Zealand might have gone along with it but I’m not going to tear up the Constitution for the Rona. For those that are so willing to do that: would you have also supported Trump declaring it was unsafe to hold an election and postponing it a year?
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I am not saying it as policy. I am saying it as individual responsibility.

We have clogged ICUs because people like Hound are too spoiled to give up their restaurants and dinner parties.

Then he defends it with the curious claim that closing Applebee's is tantamount to martial law.

As individuals, your actions are boosting Team Rona. And that will continue to be true for as long as you are visiting restaurants and attending indoor social gatherings.
 
dad4 said:
If we insist on following health guidance only when a policeman is standing over us, then we are screwed. But that’s a problem with us, not with the policeman.
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No, it's a problem with trying to impose restrictions without getting "buy-in" from those restricted. That doesn't work well in the USA. Throw in some arbitrariness and leaders ignoring their own restrictions and many people are going to make their own decisions.
 
www.buzzfeednews.com

“There Was A Pandemic?” What Life Is Like In Countries Without COVID

COVID infections are low to nonexistent in several countries, where life looks practically normal. Some people even occasionally forget there’s a pandemic going on.
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com

That was infuriating to read. The lack of a comprehensive top-down national strategy in the USA that wound up with hundreds of thousands of people needlessly dying is going to be written about in history books forever.
 
dad4 said:
I am not saying it as policy. I am saying it as individual responsibility.
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Well, someone's got to get out the message right? And what have the D leadership done? Been caught cheating at every turn. Same with the media and some so-called health experts. You think anyone is going to listen to them when they engage in that behavior? If not policy, your entire hope is wishing that people would be better than they are. You may as well wish for Jesus to come back and tell people to mask up....maybe his masks will even work better.
 
notintheface said:
www.buzzfeednews.com

“There Was A Pandemic?” What Life Is Like In Countries Without COVID

COVID infections are low to nonexistent in several countries, where life looks practically normal. Some people even occasionally forget there’s a pandemic going on.
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com

That was infuriating to read. The lack of a comprehensive top-down national strategy in the USA that wound up with hundreds of thousands of people needlessly dying is going to be written about in history books forever.
Click to expand...

So the solution is suspend the Constitution and become a police state? The only thing you'd get here is a civil war EOTL.
 
I'm very concerned about the current status of the virus based on the rise in hospitalizations. SD County is seeing unprecedented levels of hospitalizations. As a result, we're scaling back a bit on some of our activities. For the last 9 months we've maintained a good balance of Covid safety and mental health. We've not followed the letter of the law by any stretch, but followed common sense, substantive measures, as has our family and the majority of our close friends. While I know Dad4 believes its just a matter of time before I become a superspreader, to date no one in my extended family (other than a couple, college age nephews in Utah) and friends have contracted the virus. A few employees got the virus, but not from work.

I still stand firmly that kids should have the option to be in school full-time. Kids are much safer in school then at home, particularly, those kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (not even considering the mental damages and long-term educational aspects) . Speaking of that, and I don't want to sound insensitive, nor place blame, but it sounds like lower socioeconomic communities are a hot bed for the virus. I don't believe the hot bed is coming from the conscientious lockdown skeptics like myself based on actual results.

We're a diverse cultural and political country based on individual freedoms and individual acceptance of risks, which is what makes us great; however, it also makes us less than ideal to respond to this health crisis particularly with our long borders and individual state rights. A homogenous population is much easier to control and even easier if your an island.

You can employ all the mental gymnastics you want to justify lockdowns, but the proof is in the pudding, US and European style lockdowns don't work. They don't work just based on the characteristics of our country and dictating them without buy-in and with wholly arbitrary, non-scientific, mandates only compounds the problem. Lockdowns in most areas simply lack credibility.

I admit that I previously didn't see the vaccine as the panacea, I thought therapeutics were as, or more, important than the vaccine. I've changed my mind, I do believe vaccines are the panacea. Unfortunately, given the recent issue with allergic reactions and people's response to that news, I'm skeptical that the Pfizer vaccine is the panacea.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
No, it's a problem with trying to impose restrictions without getting "buy-in" from those restricted. That doesn't work well in the USA. Throw in some arbitrariness and leaders ignoring their own restrictions and many people are going to make their own decisions.
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So, if Trump and Newsom are idiots, then I should just give up and make my friends and neighbors sick?

That’s a lot of disease. Maybe we could choose to do better than that.

Grace T. said:
Well, someone's got to get out the message right? And what have the D leadership done? Been caught cheating at every turn. Same with the media and some so-called health experts. You think anyone is going to listen to them when they engage in that behavior? If not policy, your entire hope is wishing that people would be better than they are. You may as well wish for Jesus to come back and tell people to mask up....maybe his masks will even work better.
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The word is out by now. It’s been out for months. If you or I are still having friends over for drinks, that’s our fault, not Newsom’s.
 
notintheface said:
www.buzzfeednews.com

“There Was A Pandemic?” What Life Is Like In Countries Without COVID

COVID infections are low to nonexistent in several countries, where life looks practically normal. Some people even occasionally forget there’s a pandemic going on.
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com

That was infuriating to read. The lack of a comprehensive top-down national strategy in the USA that wound up with hundreds of thousands of people needlessly dying is going to be written about in history books forever.
Click to expand...
So Europe was always used as an example of doing it right.

Take a look at them. They are in the same spot we are. Different leaders, different policies, and yet the results are the same.

It tells you that the virus will spread despite gov policy.
 
watfly said:
We're a diverse cultural and political country based on individual freedoms and individual acceptance of risks, which is what makes us great; however, it also makes us less than ideal to respond to this health crisis particularly with our long borders and individual state rights. A homogenous population is much easier to control and even easier if your an island.
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Yes, these are the "people" we need to convince.
 
Grace T. said:
So the solution is suspend the Constitution and become a police state? The only thing you'd get here is a civil war EOTL.
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The solution is to act like a fucking real government and a real country made up of adults and quit the whiny pussy-assed "but muh freedumbs" shit. Imagine some bad actor just salivating over the prospect of some kind of real bio warfare inflicted upon this shithole of a country, nononono.
 
dad4 said:
So, if Trump and Newsom are idiots, then I should just give up and make my friends and neighbors sick?

That’s a lot of disease. Maybe we could choose to do better than that.



The word is out by now. It’s been out for months. If you or I are still having friends over for drinks, that’s our fault, not Newsom’s.
Click to expand...
dad4 said:
So, if Trump and Newsom are idiots, then I should just give up and make my friends and neighbors sick?

That’s a lot of disease. Maybe we could choose to do better than that.



The word is out by now. It’s been out for months. If you or I are still having friends over for drinks, that’s our fault, not Newsom’s.
Click to expand...


Each of us has got to choose as far as they can reasonably tolerate. As you say, the word is out now. If people weren't going to listen after all that, they aren't going to listen (particularly given the bad examples, right and left). What you are left with is force, hence your flirtation with totalitarianism. You are there, you just don't want to say it....you say fines but then no not really....it's where you are.
 
Desert Hound said:
So Europe was always used as an example of doing it right.

Take a look at them. They are in the same spot we are. Different leaders, different policies, and yet the results are the same.

It tells you that the virus will spread despite gov policy.
Click to expand...

Except, you know, for this:


Yeah, looks pretty miserable to me.
 
notintheface said:
The solution is to act like a fucking real government and a real country made up of adults and quit the whiny pussy-assed "but muh freedumbs" shit. Imagine some bad actor just salivating over the prospect of some kind of real bio warfare inflicted upon this shithole of a country, nononono.
Click to expand...

At least you are on the record of wanting to suspend the constitution and cause a civil war. The Rona will go great in those circumstances.
 
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