Academy vs. ECNL

[Round]

There are several on this board that project their bitterness and cynicism over expectations not met onto the process as a whole. For these young women, its an exciting high when they are recruited by a university and their hard work and talent is recognized and validated. Does it always work out for any number of reasons? Of course not.

I stand by my personal belief that in the scope of your life, being a college starter at a great school (especially at the D1 level) is absolutely hard to top... And in many cases is more satisfying and exciting than what you will later experience entering the job market and the business world.

Words like bitterness and cynicism are cute. It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible. Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.

It's not bitterness or cynicism to question the value of what will now be an even more demanding system. Hopefully she won't have any regrets.

 

[MakeAPlay]

You go girl!

You really should talk to your wife about your lack of action and inadequate equipment. You constantly worrying about who I am banging speaks volumes about what is going on in your world little guy.

 

[soccermanifesto]

It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible. Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.

So to sum up:

Very few people care about it.

Lots don't make it, it's not fair.

I'm "living through my kid. "

I have a "goal" for my kid that is achieved over the ruined dreams and crushed hopes of others.

(And in reading between the lines, I should prepare my daughter because it's not worth it and she's likely to burn out or quit anyway)

But you're not bitter or cynical. Got it.

 

[Zerodenero]

Words like bitterness and cynicism are cute. It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible. Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.

It's not bitterness or cynicism to question the value of what will now be an even more demanding system. Hopefully she won't have any regrets.

Gosh Round...y u always gotta kill the vibe. Start your anti-depressant Lithium treatment.

Doctors orders

 

[Silky Johnston]

Couldn't all the ECNL teams get together and say to US Soccer that we've changed our minds and areally rejecting your request for DA status. We have decided to improve on the ECNL league and make it bigger and better. By requiring 3 trainings per week, A&B license coaches. Rules for promotion into ECNL and regulation. How would DA survive without the ECNL clubs? What is US Soccer offering these ECNL clubs that is making them desert ECNL?

this is what happens in business when you have no competition.. the only problem with the club soccer model is the only real people who lose out are our kids. Can someone explain how for 6 years of club soccer almost every team practiced only twice a week now that us soccer is in charge you now are going to practice 4xs a week? What changed? Weren't we paying for development before wasn't that was this was supposed to be about when we went to club soccer? Development? Don't the ayso teams practice twice a week? So what gives ?

 

[Silky Johnston]

I would have never thought there would be more GDA organizations in So Cal than ECNL organizations.

Originally I thought US Soccer was developing GDA for the betterment of the girls. Now it looks like US Soccer just wanted to control the "top" tier of talent.

this is a business plain and simple. Never about development it's like every other business money and power...

 

[C.A.M.]

People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.

Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".

So what are you doubters really mad about?

 

[Silky Johnston]

People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.

Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".

So what are you doubters really mad about?

I can only speak for myself . I am not mad but why does everyone pretend its about something other than what it really is? Have you ever heard this is a business from any club? Have you heard to get good you need to practice 4 times a week and we should absorb some of the cost? This system is broken we all know it some say something about it and then they are labeled winers complainers negative not loyal selfish whatever suits the case. I have been saying the same thing for years this is nothing new the only good part is US soccer is now saying the way you have been doing this since u8 is wrong. The guys we have let into our clique the same guys that have been shorting you all this time the guys who have continually put themselves aND the success of their pocketbooks in front of what your kid truly needs to have a chance in this sport they r ok now dont worry we will watch them feel better it will be cheaper for you.. I don't get it ...not mad just wondering why we have all been deceived for so long? Not mad just waiting for answers? I hope you r with a club not a parent. I would love for a club guy to answer those questions. ..

 

[NoGoal]

People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.

Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".

So what are you doubters really mad about?

No cost, fully subsidized? Have you read the thread?

The top players are already training 4 days a week. 2 days with their club, 1 day speed and strength training, and 1 additional day on the ball.

I spoke to a girls DA/ECNL coach and was told, 1 of the 4 days of academy will be film sessions.

 

[C.A.M.]

I can only speak for myself . I am not mad but why does everyone pretend its about something other than what it really is? Have you ever heard this is a business from any club? Have you heard to get good you need to practice 4 times a week and we should absorb some of the cost? This system is broken we all know it some say something about it and then they are labeled winers complainers negative not loyal selfish whatever suits the case. I have been saying the same thing for years this is nothing new the only good part is US soccer is now saying the way you have been doing this since u8 is wrong. The guys we have let into our clique the same guys that have been shorting you all this time the guys who have continually put themselves aND the success of their pocketbooks in front of what your kid truly needs to have a chance in this sport they r ok now dont worry we will watch them feel better it will be cheaper for you.. I don't get it ...not mad just wondering why we have all been deceived for so long? Not mad just waiting for answers? I hope you r with a club not a parent. I would love for a club guy to answer those questions. ..

No I am a parent. A parent with a kid in Academy and a kid in Club.

The girls Academy is being set up to eventually mirror the boys Academy. I hope this means the no costs for the player format also.

To me the issue is the girls have ECNL at all and that US Soccer is just now creating the Girls Academy instead of 15 years ago when the Women proved they deserved it.

Some kids aren't meant to play Academy. 4 days a week. Film training. Only playing soccer. It is for the kids who know that this game is what they want and they have the natural abilities to match the desire and focus they have.

I'm sitting with my best friend discussing this. Growing up we were on the swim team and I played water polo. Practice was 5 days a week. We didn't play tons of games, but we practiced all the time. A few tournaments, then league games or meets, playoffs, a few weeks off and start again. We weren't close to being Olympians, but we still worked hard all the time.

I love the Academy format. I raised my kids to have the same outlook on doing what they love and that is soccer. Other kids play for the friends. Both of my kids recently chose teams where they knew absolutely no one and have made a lot of new friends and earned the respect of the coaching staffs.

If your kids are playing to be with certain friends or just want a more varied lifestyle, don't even think about Academy.

 

[Silky Johnston]

No I am a parent. A parent with a kid in Academy and a kid in Club.

The girls Academy is being set up to eventually mirror the boys Academy. I hope this means the no costs for the player format also.

To me the issue is the girls have ECNL at all and that US Soccer is just now creating the Girls Academy instead of 15 years ago when the Women proved they deserved it.

Some kids aren't meant to play Academy. 4 days a week. Film training. Only playing soccer. It is for the kids who know that this game is what they want and they have the natural abilities to match the desire and focus they have.

I'm sitting with my best friend discussing this. Growing up we were on the swim team and I played water polo. Practice was 5 days a week. We didn't play tons of games, but we practiced all the time. A few tournaments, then league games or meets, playoffs, a few weeks off and start again. We weren't close to being Olympians, but we still worked hard all the time.

I love the Academy format. I raised my kids to have the same outlook on doing what they love and that is soccer. Other kids play for the friends. Both of my kids recently chose teams where they knew absolutely no one and have made a lot of new friends and earned the respect of the coaching staffs.

If your kids are playing to be with certain friends or just want a more varied lifestyle, don't even think about Academy.

Yes I agree with your comments. But like I said I was looking for answers to some specific questions. It isn't whether the Academy system is right or wrong. Also I don't understand your comment: "the issue is girls having ecnl at all and that US soccer should have done this 15 years ago" I don't understand that part. So I guess my main question to you would be.. Why did it take them so long to do it? I can tell u it didn't take them 15 years to realize there was girls club soccer. So like I said before what gives?

 

[C.A.M.]

Not sure what gives. We ask the same thing in our household. To me it has been sexism + capitalism. The general thought in the States for generations has been women professional sports are slow and boring and those who play them are sexually confused.

Realistically the only women's professional sports league to survive for more than a decade is the WNBA and that is largely due to the financial backing of the NBA. Until recently, soccer hasn't had a league financially stable enough to give a girl who dedicates her sports life to it an end product to justify it if the end line object is to play pro. Same could be said for the men's game though. MLS is set up so teams almost can't fail with cost sharing, profit sharing, no relegation or promotion, etc...

I know our "more age mature" family members continue to tell both our kids they should focus on basketball because that is where the long term future is if they were good enough to play pro. If their counterparts at US Soccer feel the same way, it would give insight to why the long flourishing girls side has lacked the Academy.

The other point people don't like to hear is that US Soccer has been experimenting with the Academy on the boys side for quite a while. The current direction started with the big German in charge.

 

[NoGoal]

Not sure what gives. We ask the same thing in our household. To me it has been sexism + capitalism. The general thought in the States for generations has been women professional sports are slow and boring and those who play them are sexually confused.

Realistically the only women's professional sports league to survive for more than a decade is the WNBA and that is largely due to the financial backing of the NBA. Until recently, soccer hasn't had a league financially stable enough to give a girl who dedicates her sports life to it an end product to justify it if the end line object is to play pro. Same could be said for the men's game though. MLS is set up so teams almost can't fail with cost sharing, profit sharing, no relegation or promotion, etc...

I know our "more age mature" family members continue to tell both our kids they should focus on basketball because that is where the long term future is if they were good enough to play pro. If their counterparts at US Soccer feel the same way, it would give insight to why the long flourishing girls side has lacked the Academy.

The other point people don't like to hear is that US Soccer has been experimenting with the Academy on the boys side for quite a while. The current direction started with the big German in charge.

CAM, for women the best pro sport to play with an opportunity to make millions are individual sports; like tennis and golf.

 

[C.A.M.]

CAM, for women the best pro sport to play with an opportunity to make millions are individual sports; like tennis and golf.

True

 

[Jason Bourne]

This is my first posting on this highly charged subject. I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points. From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception. With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player. If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static. It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons: 1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.

After putting some analysis on each of these categories, it becomes rather obvious to me that these two (2) sanctioning bodies (ECNL vs U.S. Soccer) have very little in common.....even the game itself, hence so much controversy over the matter. IMO, U.S. Soccer is on the losing end of this battle because of what the ECNL has been able to accomplish for the masses of very highly talented female athletes throughout the country, and did so with a strong female-athlete-centric basis in a relatively short timeframe. The ECNL female athletes that I know love the ENCL formula. College coaches love the one-stop shop to find talent and most have limited budget and resources to do their jobs well at recruiting. Put yourself in their arena for a second (as a college soccer scout); your job is on the line everyday to put together a successful soccer program by finding the best talent for your furthered success which in hundreds, if not thousands of instances (players) have nothing to do with U.S. Soccer WNT. Their mission is the match their program with the right players within an academic institution, and nothing to do with Carson City, CA National Training Centers. In the end, I think the ECNL has, and will continue to put the right talent in front of the right college coaches, with the right numbers and female-centric environment to be successful. It seems like it has and will continue to be a win-win scenario.

And if you think that just because the DA may have worked for the guys, you better think again. For the better part of a couple of hours, I had the privilege of listening to Anson Dorance from UNC talk about the differences between female and male athletes in team sports, and to put is mildly, the differences are "tectonic" and I was blown away by the level of his experience, frustration, and due diligence that this man went through to understand what it truly takes to coach female championship teams. He clearly sees both sides of this controversy (and is experienced on both sides, too), and his interview speaks volumes on the subject. I think I read it on Top Drawer Soccer.

My prediction is that we will see U.S. Soccer blink before ECNL after they wake up to the realization that the ECNL already does what they are trying to upend. Two words: Mallory Pugh............and many more to follow that are directly from the ECNL. Open to any and all comments.

 

[NoGoal]

This is my first posting on this highly charged subject. I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points. From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception. With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player. If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static. It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons: 1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.

After putting some analysis on each of these categories, it becomes rather obvious to me that these two (2) sanctioning bodies (ECNL vs U.S. Soccer) have very little in common.....even the game itself, hence so much controversy over the matter. IMO, U.S. Soccer is on the losing end of this battle because of what the ECNL has been able to accomplish for the masses of very highly talented female athletes throughout the country, and did so with a strong female-athlete-centric basis in a relatively short timeframe. The ECNL female athletes that I know love the ENCL formula. College coaches love the one-stop shop to find talent and most have limited budget and resources to do their jobs well at recruiting. Put yourself in their arena for a second (as a college soccer scout); your job is on the line everyday to put together a successful soccer program by finding the best talent for your furthered success which in hundreds, if not thousands of instances (players) have nothing to do with U.S. Soccer WNT. Their mission is the match their program with the right players within an academic institution, and nothing to do with Carson City, CA National Training Centers. In the end, I think the ECNL has, and will continue to put the right talent in front of the right college coaches, with the right numbers and female-centric environment to be successful. It seems like it has and will continue to be a win-win scenario.

And if you think that just because the DA may have worked for the guys, you better think again. For the better part of a couple of hours, I had the privilege of listening to Anson Dorance from UNC talk about the differences between female and male athletes in team sports, and to put is mildly, the differences are "tectonic" and I was blown away by the level of his experience, frustration, and due diligence that this man went through to understand what it truly takes to coach female championship teams. He clearly sees both sides of this controversy (and is experienced on both sides, too), and his interview speaks volumes on the subject. I think I read it on Top Drawer Soccer.

My prediction is that we will see U.S. Soccer blink before ECNL after they wake up to the realization that the ECNL already does what they are trying to upend. Two words: Mallory Pugh............and many more to follow that are directly from the ECNL. Open to any and all comments.

Here we go again!

 

[C.A.M.]

This is my first posting on this highly charged subject. I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points. From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception. With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player. If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static. It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons: 1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.

Hey Jason. That is a very well written posts. I'm not going to argue you point by point or disparage you. I just feel as if you showed a short sighted view of the ECNL vs DA argument.

Of course the majority of the players loved the ECNL format. It has been the only real top flight soccer for girls in the last two decades. Same for the college coaches who have a one stop shot for recruitment. ECNL should be honored for actually paying attention to the female soccer athlete in this country when our Soccer Association / Federation willfully ignored them.

To me the issue is ECNL has become a serious pay to play league. I know parents who will be forking out close to $5k this year for the trips and league and that doesn't include them traveling with the player. That is a barrier to our nations talent pool actually including the best players. From what I see the training schedules aren't more rigorious and neither are the standards of development each club is being held to for the best interest of the player. It is a more expensive side of Club that doesn't necessarily give an advantage in player development.

The boys and girls DAs don't have to be twin mirrors. US Soccer clearly has recognized that by doubling up the years in the age groups. They have already eliminated that on the boys side. To me US Soccer is coming into the game late, but not necessarily behind. At this point it is proven our country is a hotbed for this game on the girls side. The best players want to to play at a high level and a women's professional league is actually working. Now more parents are willing to have their daughter actually dedicate herself to the sport the way gymnasts, dancers and cheerleaders have and go 4 days a week. The female athlete herself now has a future to strive for that can entail playing soccer for a living until her body or mind say no more.

To keep this going we need to tap the best of the best and not just the well off financially. I personally think if I would have to pay the same price for each league - I want my athlete receiving the more structured and centered development program with less focus on the trips and more on playing high level teams and working on the proper concepts of the game. My hope is the cost of the DA is low limited amounts to free. Like I said - my son has been lucky enough to train in the DA system and his growth has been tremendous.

Sadly the politics, egos and power trips will remain in both systems.

 

[meatsweats]

Sounds wonderful CAM. Except where is that $$ going to come from? Pay to play is the American way. And for the girls, it ain't changing soon. All your points sound great, but I can't see any sort of reality, at least for the next 5 years, minimum.

And just to speak on the ECNL teams that my DD has been on, there were at least 2 fully scholarship players and a few partials. Not everyone is paying $5K. Not saying there isn't missed talent, but I don't think it's as large of a population that is being portrayed. Most of those girls have been found. Maybe I'm wrong. But seems that teams are willing to find a way for great talent the make their way on the team, regardless whether it's ECNL, DA, USYS, etc.

 

[NoGoal]

Hey Jason. That is a very well written posts. I'm not going to argue you point by point or disparage you. I just feel as if you showed a short sighted view of the ECNL vs DA argument.

Of course the majority of the players loved the ECNL format. It has been the only real top flight soccer for girls in the last two decades. Same for the college coaches who have a one stop shot for recruitment. ECNL should be honored for actually paying attention to the female soccer athlete in this country when our Soccer Association / Federation willfully ignored them.

To me the issue is ECNL has become a serious pay to play league. I know parents who will be forking out close to $5k this year for the trips and league and that doesn't include them traveling with the player. That is a barrier to our nations talent pool actually including the best players. From what I see the training schedules aren't more rigorious and neither are the standards of development each club is being held to for the best interest of the player. It is a more expensive side of Club that doesn't necessarily give an advantage in player development.

The boys and girls DAs don't have to be twin mirrors. US Soccer clearly has recognized that by doubling up the years in the age groups. They have already eliminated that on the boys side. To me US Soccer is coming into the game late, but not necessarily behind. At this point it is proven our country is a hotbed for this game on the girls side. The best players want to to play at a high level and a women's professional league is actually working. Now more parents are willing to have their daughter actually dedicate herself to the sport the way gymnasts, dancers and cheerleaders have and go 4 days a week. The female athlete herself now has a future to strive for that can entail playing soccer for a living until her body or mind say no more.

To keep this going we need to tap the best of the best and not just the well off financially. I personally think if I would have to pay the same price for each league - I want my athlete receiving the more structured and centered development program with less focus on the trips and more on playing high level teams and working on the proper concepts of the game. My hope is the cost of the DA is low limited amounts to free. Like I said - my son has been lucky enough to train in the DA system and his growth has been tremendous.

Sadly the politics, egos and power trips will remain in both systems.

How is the NWSL a successful league, when the US Soccer Federation, Canadian Soccer Federation and Mexican Soccer Federation are paying their women national team players salaries? Eliminate the subsidy and probably a 3rd US womens soccer league folds. Fact, US Soccer only subsidies the Sr WNT, so the US Womens National Team remains dominant or on top of the ladder. If they didn't who knows what would happen to the womens soccer program.

I also agree with meats, I know of many teams, including ECNL teams who scholarship or provides discounted club fees for the families who need financial assistance.

 

[Glen]

Sounds wonderful CAM. Except where is that $$ going to come from? Pay to play is the American way. And for the girls, it ain't changing soon. All your points sound great, but I can't see any sort of reality, at least for the next 5 years, minimum.

And just to speak on the ECNL teams that my DD has been on, there were at least 2 fully scholarship players and a few partials. Not everyone is paying $5K. Not saying there isn't missed talent, but I don't think it's as large of a population that is being portrayed. Most of those girls have been found. Maybe I'm wrong. But seems that teams are willing to find a way for great talent the make their way on the team, regardless whether it's ECNL, DA, USYS, etc.

There are scholarships available directly from US Soccer for DA, which are intended to supplement the assistance that clubs already provide. The US Soccer scholarship website specifically notes the problems with play-to-pay, which is the reason for the extra aid. And unlike clubs, which essentially take the word of a parent of a talented player that they need the assistance (or they will leave), the scholarships from DA require a formal application process to determine actual need of all DA rostered players (more like college FA).

It seems like there will be a little bit more money to help out (not a bad thing). Plus the girls get two extra days of training, which they would otherwise have to pay for (again not a bad thing). There are trade-offs, like no HS soccer. But other than the that, this is a re-tweaked ECNL. Is there a downside, other than no HS soccer and some potential playing time issues for those on the bottom of the roster? Both are legitimate issues so I don't mean to downplay them.