Academy vs. ECNL

[C.A.M.]

Please provide the links that say what you mention about the money and/or scholarships USSF plans to offer or contribute to the "Girls DA". It would be helpful to the rest of us. I have pulled up all the announcements from USSF and additional clubs added, and none of them say anything about specific money for scholarships that will be given by USSF to Girls DA. Maybe I missed it. It would be awesome to see it in writing.

If the $ commitment locked in the applying clubs, then someone is going to pay and my guess is that it's us parents. So we are right where we started from. New league, new name, new bossman, new rules, same story.

In my research, I read an article that I found interesting.

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/67785/girls-development-academy-promises-to-be-less-expe.html

April Heinrichs, US Soccer Technical Director interview.

Mike Woitalla (socceramerica.com) - "The other big difference compared to the ECNL or U.S. Youth Soccer leagues is that the GDA will ban players from participating in high school ball. That, Heinrichs said, will only affect “1 percent” of the players in girls youth soccer. And she expects players with college and national team ambitions to be OK with skipping high school ball."

Funny how April thinks girls aspiring to play college won't care about skipping HS. Yeah, because out of 3-4000+ players in the DA, less than 1% will make the actual USWNT.

You know this is a conundrum. As parents all of us who played, played high school. I'm just not sold that it is necessary for the girls soccer. These Southern California girls teams are basically high level club teams. I know you don't make these top high school teams if you don't play on the top teams on top clubs. Almost all the coaches are also club coaches. I just see a lot of violence and injuries. I know my girl has said she wants to play it, but if she had a chance to be on a high level DA she would choose that. My son plans in playing Academy and isn't expecting to play high school anyways.

Btw, I just asked my daughter what she would want. She is in 8th grade and said "Academy! Screw High School. My teammates said it too.".
So do we want them to play high school more than they want it? And yes she knows it's 4 days a week.

 

[C.A.M.]

Blah, blah, blah....I've read all these FAQ's. Still, there's no numbers or commitment. It's propaganda. Money has to come from somewhere and as others from the boys DA state, very few clubs are fully funded and free to play. Others are pay to play with 2-3 scholarships, max.

NoGoal is right. Break down the boys DA funding and divide that in half. What are the girls going to be left with, if they're lucky? Round and round we go. DA boils down to this. Another ECNL type of league (power struggle), 4 mandated practices a week (which we hear from boys clubs, isn't always adhered to), focus on development (ala ECNL, CRL, SCDSL, etc. Ummm. K!), A and B level coaching (eventually - in 5 years is what I'm told), no HS soccer, USSF scouting, College scouting (wait, what's their focus again?).

Just to be clear, not against DA, just don't feel DA and ECNL competing have our DD's best interests at heart. But get that no one will back down.

Ok you have a negative attitude towards it. My suggestion is you go watch how these teams practice and work. Find a boys DA (Not named Strikers - Sorry ) and watch them. Check out some games. Watch Dallas Cup on the Youtube livestreams and watch our DAs really compete with the other youth programs from around the world.

I see how fabulous our WNT is without the same set up and think it would be even better with it.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Scholarships from US soccer are based on need for those already admitted to the DA. So the basic threshold for "talent" is making the roster. Then it goes strictly by need. These scholarships are more geared toward the travel expenses that clubs offering scholarships don't cover. Clubs scholarships are coaching fees, uniforms, etc. Those are already fixed costs for the clubs, so throwing a few extra kids into training doesn't actually cost clubs that much.

On the other hand, scholarships from the clubs don't appear to be limited by need. It would be nice if US Soccer made that part of the mandate, because I don't think there is anything preventing those scholarships being used, as they are now by clubs (whether ECNL or not), on wealthier families with a stud. It's a shame because it would a positive way in which US Soccer could exercise some of that power over all the DA clubs.

As for college, I get the point. But college is strictly about winning. This is suppose to be about development. If you want to bring in a larger pool for development, you don't give the incentives to those already in the pool.

Thanks for the well thought out response. I truly hope that they succeed in trying to expand the pool of elite players on the women's side. My disagreement was never about the goal of developing more elite players simply with the method in which they are going about it.

To me it looks like the costs are going to be the same or maybe a grand less. And for that the players get to miss high school soccer and train an extra day (or maybe the same in some kids cases) for maybe the hope of being one of the 40-50 kids of their birth year to get called into a YNT camp that year. Not to mention that they may not play much every other year due to the dual age band. Of course the YNT caliber players on the teams only complicate matters for the other players. Let's say your particular DA club has 5-7 YNT players or more per 2 year age bands (as several old ECNL now ECNL/GDA clubs do). Those players as youngers are likely better than the non YNT caliber player that might be a year older than them. This chews up minutes and opportunities to be seen by colleges for that 2nd tier of elite player whose true destiny is to go to a great college, get a great education and go kick butt in a different way. At this point outside of 2 examples that is the destination for even the top tier elite players too so why try to duplicate the boys system when the overall financial incentive is completely different.

I hear where you are coming from and agree. I just don't see the point of some of the methods and motives.

 

[MessiFTW]

Thanks for the well thought out response. I truly hope that they succeed in trying to expand the pool of elite players on the women's side. My disagreement was never about the goal of developing more elite players simply with the method in which they are going about it.

To me it looks like the costs are going to be the same or maybe a grand less. And for that the players get to miss high school soccer and train an extra day (or maybe the same in some kids cases) for maybe the hope of being one of the 40-50 kids of their birth year to get called into a YNT camp that year. Not to mention that they may not play much every other year due to the dual age band. Of course the YNT caliber players on the teams only complicate matters for the other players. Let's say your particular DA club has 5-7 YNT players or more per 2 year age bands (as several old ECNL now ECNL/GDA clubs do). Those players as youngers are likely better than the non YNT caliber player that might be a year older than them. This chews up minutes and opportunities to be seen by colleges for that 2nd tier of elite player whose true destiny is to go to a great college, get a great education and go kick butt in a different way. At this point outside of 2 examples that is the destination for even the top tier elite players too so why try to duplicate the boys system when the overall financial incentive is completely different.

I hear where you are coming from and agree. I just don't see the point of some of the methods and motives.

Old, redundant and obvious post. Waste of time reading your pointless blather.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Old, redundant and obvious post. Waste of time reading your pointless blather.

Why are you wasting your time reading it. Your kid won't need GDA to work at Wendy's.

 

[NoGoal]

You assume a lot. My boy was in the DA System through PDA. Started as a club player / PDA trainee and practiced only with the PDA team. Basically the academy for the youngers. We paid full price for the club. After they DEVELOPED him for 2 seasons he was moved to the PDA team. Coaching philosophy was consistent through the academy. We moved on due to a lot of coaching, personnel change.

We would be at the fields for 4 hours a night since my girls club practiced at the same fields and had a later practice time. I made it a point to watch the older boys DA practice to see what my boy would have to look forward to. In fact, the girls program is very large and successful and when I say I am a believer in the DA development philosophy, it's because I watched both side by side for a few years.

So no he wasn't a starter and wasn't even completely in the system because he wasn't good enough at first. They DEVELOPED him because he had the drive, focus, desire and heart to work his way into a better player. To be upfront, they had no reason to keep him because they sure the hell didn't need him. They had plenty of talent already.

When speaking of fully funded DAs I know LA Galaxy, FC Golden State, TFA LA, Real So Cal, LAFC, Albion and one I'm not at liberty to name, fully fund the players on the top team (Academy and/or Pre Academy). I know at 3 of those I named, the younger ages team rosters are smaller (14-15) with two keepers once you reach U12 so everyone gets playtime and adequate training. Nothing like these girls squads being formed with 18-22 players. That's an issue with these clubs hoarding talent on the girls side.

I'm not here to fight. I know a lot of you are extra pro ECNL. That's all the girls have had and it has done it's job. That doesn't mean it hasn't gotten away from what we need for the players to get the best development. I personally feel the DA philosophy is better for player development. The coaches have high expectations for the players and hold them accountable. The players have high expectations for themselves and are working to improve.

Parents aren't buddying up with the coaches for more play time when it's not deserved and having kids on a top team roster that shouldn't be. It is more selective and the focus at practice from the kids is 200% higher. Couple that with a no tolerance rule for coaches so they teach through positivity, motivation, discipline and not fear and negativity.

I teach my kids to work smart, work hard and have fun. We all know when they hit the older ages this gets ULTRA SERIOUS. Any kid playing DA or top level ECNL has to want to do this because they have other options and the dedication level is high. My opinion is DA is structured to get more out of that dedication, while lowering the costs that ECNL has that creates a barrier for players who are good enough, but financially unable to compete. The Girls DA may not be no cost for all girls on the team at first, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't be.

Simply by assuming, you've spilled your beans and we know more about you....haha! It also doesn't change the fact your son is still a ulittle player and entering the inaugural year for the Boys U12 developement academy system. BTW, of course you were paying a club fee for your son prior to U12, last I checked there isn't a U10/11 Boys DA team! It also doesn't change the fact your pro BOYS DA, because your son's DA club is FREE. Like I posted prior, you would be singing a different tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and he was sitting.

It's good to know your kids previously played for PDA, because everyone in SoCal already knows PDA is a great club.....especially the girls side. So, please don't post PDA is now great because of Girls DA. They were great prior to Girls DA and well before ECNL ever came to existance. The club will continue pumping out the same amount of college committments and it doesn't matter if the league is the USYS Championship series, USYS National League, ECNL or DA Girls. The league could be named these girls suck club soccer and college coaches will still recruit players from the club.... this also applies to Surf, Blues, Slammers, RSC, Eagles, WCFC, Beach and Legends in SoCal!

Lastly, what is your DD U10? Lol

 

[NoGoal]

Ok you have a negative attitude towards it. My suggestion is you go watch how these teams practice and work. Find a boys DA (Not named Strikers - Sorry ) and watch them. Check out some games. Watch Dallas Cup on the Youtube livestreams and watch our DAs really compete with the other youth programs from around the world.

I see how fabulous our WNT is without the same set up and think it would be even better with it.

I love it a Ulittle parent telling us uolder parents what's right, LMAO!

 

[meatsweats]

You know this is a conundrum. As parents all of us who played, played high school. I'm just not sold that it is necessary for the girls soccer. These Southern California girls teams are basically high level club teams. I know you don't make these top high school teams if you don't play on the top teams on top clubs. Almost all the coaches are also club coaches. I just see a lot of violence and injuries. I know my girl has said she wants to play it, but if she had a chance to be on a high level DA she would choose that. My son plans in playing Academy and isn't expecting to play high school anyways.

Btw, I just asked my daughter what she would want. She is in 8th grade and said "Academy! Screw High School. My teammates said it too.".
So do we want them to play high school more than they want it? And yes she knows it's 4 days a week.

One, your daughter is in 8th grade. Talk to me in a few years. Two, not sure what High School she will attend, but if they are sports oriented, it's a big deal!! Three, I'm not sure what club or team she plays for, but my DD is on a very high level ECNL team and all the incoming freshman are dying for HS season to start. These are girls that will all have very good chances to play on DA teams, no doubt, but they aren't looking forward to DA. Nope. They are looking forward to High School!

 

[C.A.M.]

Simply by assuming, you've spilled your beans and we know more about you....haha! It also doesn't change the fact your son is still a ulittle player and entering the inaugural year for the Boys U12 developement academy system. BTW, of course you were paying a club fee for your son prior to U12, last I checked there isn't a U10/11 Boys DA team! It also doesn't change the fact your pro BOYS DA, because your son's DA club is FREE. Like I posted prior, you would be singing a different tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and he was sitting.

It's good to know your kids previously played for PDA, because everyone in SoCal already knows PDA is a great club.....especially the girls side. So, please don't post PDA is now great because of Girls DA. They were great prior to Girls DA and well before ECNL ever came to existance. The club will continue pumping out the same amount of college committments and it doesn't matter if the league is the USYS Championship series, USYS National League, ECNL or DA Girls. The league could be named these girls suck club soccer and college coaches will still recruit players from the club.... this also applies to Surf, Blues, Slammers, RSC, Eagles, WCFC, Beach and Legends in SoCal!

Lastly, what is your DD U10? Lol

my point was the DA develops. My son wasn't a great player, but was a great find. Those are the kids the DA works for because these clubs will develop younger. I'm proud of my boys hard work and progression through the system and love to tell his story. It's inspiring, so you won't shame me with you little words.

Also if you read , he played club and only practiced PDA. Point being, his development was always at that level and the games with the club gave him his own team to grow on. Like I said, he was surplus talent and kid in front of him was and is a stud. They were upfront with our family. My son at 7.5 said I don't care where I play at this point, I need real training.

Some of you are trying to paint this DA thing as an evil empire and I'm trying to tell you that it is different. The lower age groups these DA train our kids, the better off they are as soccer players. Are they going to always seek the best talent for their programs? Of course. The new coach didn't favor my son much. It's okay. They made him good enough I could find a better situation for him to continue growing and developing. His new DA (he plays up a year now) loves him. I have spoken to lots of parents of olders and the kids. It's a journey. Not everyone makes it. Your kid will still be a better person by going through it.

Great thing for you doubters is if a DA comes for your girls, you can turn it down. Move ahead on your chosen path. Just don't hate when you see how it works. The ECNL option isn't leaving anytime soon and you can enjoy that ride.

 

[C.A.M.]

I love it a Ulittle parent telling us uolder parents what's right, LMAO!

Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.

I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.

 

[NoGoal]

Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.

I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.

Lol, nobody has experience with girls DA? Not me, not you or anybody else in the entire world! Last I checked it starts fall of 2017!

Sore losers? lmao, far from it brotha! My DD is at her official visit this weekend. BTW, come here, no closer, closer.....my DD developed more as a player by practicing on her own then at club practice!

Read the article how Christine Press mom (who never played soccer) helped her with drills. Alex Morgan dad help her with her shooting 2 hours a day every day when younger.

 

[NoGoal]

Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.

I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.

Help with the journey, your kids journey is in it's infancy, lmao! Like I posted tell me about Boys DA and Girls DA in 4-5 years from now.

 

[C.A.M.]

One, your daughter is in 8th grade. Talk to me in a few years. Two, not sure what High School she will attend, but if they are sports oriented, it's a big deal!! Three, I'm not what club or team she plays for, but my DD is on a very high level ECNL team and all the incoming freshman are dying for HS season to start. These are girls that will all have very good chances to play on DA teams, no doubt, but they aren't looking forward to DA. Nope. They are looking forward to High School!

It's a top level high school in education and sports. Neither of my kids play with one schoolmate. They chose their teams, not my wife and I. Her friends at school do play soccer, softball, volleyball, etc.... She and her besties played on the same teams when younger and they all love each other, but we all have our journeys.

I said earlier in the thread, the DA system isn't for everyone. It takes a kid with a certain type of focus, desire and dedication level to go along with that talent. I am glad ECNL will stay around and have an option because it will be needed. Not every kid wants it the way DA is giving it.

My personal ideal situation would be for both my kids to play on DAs and then go to a private high school on an educational scholarship. My son is down, but my daughter DOES want to go to high school with her friends. Just doesn't care about playing there.

 

[C.A.M.]

Lol, nobody has experience with girls DA? Not me, not you or anybody else in the entire world! Last I checked it starts fall of 2017!

Sore losers? lmao, far from it brotha! My DD is at her official visit this weekend. BTW, come here, no closer, closer.....my DD developed more as a player by practicing on her own then at club practice!

Read the article how Christine Press mom (who never played soccer) helped her with drills. Alex Morgan dad help her with her shooting 2 hours a day every day when younger.

Congrats on your girl getting that far!! Stories like that are why I come here.

I understand development happening more outside the program than in it. That is the point Im trying to make. Our girls have been getting shafted. The outside practice part will always factor into a player going to the next level, but the Boys DA program actually does develop more than what our girls have been given at these extremely high prices.

I'm looking at this as an optimist and expecting the girls side to do the same. US Soccer is serious about the DAs following the program. I do have experience with it. The PDAs are trained liked the DA boys. My boy is in another DA team now and it is excellent, including the care level for the kids.

Like I said, I'm not trying to fight here. I just see a lot of skeptics for leaving a system I feel has short changed alot of us even if the great girls like yours still gets her end goal.

 

[C.A.M.]

Help with the journey, your kids journey is in it's infancy, lmao! Like I posted tell me about Boys DA and Girls DA in 4-5 years from now.

All she has is 4.5 years left. Been playing for 7. On the downhill side.

 

[NoGoal]

Congrats on your girl getting that far!! Stories like that are why I come here.

I understand development happening more outside the program than in it. That is the point Im trying to make. Our girls have been getting shafted. The outside practice part will always factor into a player going to the next level, but the Boys DA program actually does develop more than what our girls have been given at these extremely high prices.

I'm looking at this as an optimist and expecting the girls side to do the same. US Soccer is serious about the DAs following the program. I do have experience with it. The PDAs are trained liked the DA boys. My boy is in another DA team now and it is excellent, including the care level for the kids.

Like I said, I'm not trying to fight here. I just see a lot of skeptics for leaving a system I feel has short changed alot of us even if the great girls like yours still gets her end goal.

I hear yeah! In my personal experience and probably the biggest mistake I did at ulittles was relying on club coaches to develop my DD, since I was paying a fee for their services. I didn't like how she was being developed and why I moved her from 4 different clubs from U9 to U12. Then it dawned on my wife and I that our DD was better off training on her own while I helped with her drills. Just know as you go through the process, a club coach is more concerned developing his entire team and not so much tailoring practice to improve any particular individual.

 

[C.A.M.]

I hear yeah! In my personal experience and probably the biggest mistake I did at ulittles was relying on club coaches to develop my DD, since I was paying a fee for their services. I didn't like how she was being developed and why I moved her from 4 different clubs from U9 to U12. Then it dawned on my wife and I that our DD was better off training on her own while I helped with her drills. Just know as you go through the process, a club coach is more concerned developing his entire team and not so much tailoring practice to improve any particular individual.

Thanks for that advice. We learned that lesson the hard way. Aged her up so she skipped U10. Daughter basically stood around for 60-75 minutes of the 90. I refused to let her digress and paid for single person 1-1.5 hr. privates. My knowledge wasn't high enough to teach her what she needed.

That's what made me high on the DA program. He was always being pushed at practice 3 days a week and given "homework". Realized there is something better. Of course, they both still do drills at home.

 

[Glen]

This seems to be a fairly balanced article on how high school soccer is playing out under the BDA. It may be a little outdated. http://www.si.com/soccer/2012/09/07/development-academies-high-school

Someone raised the issue of kids on scholarships in high school - a very compelling point. DA gives exemptions to the "no other league" rule, which helped with this particular issue on the boy's side. I did see that exemptions are still allowed upon request. We'll see what adjustments they make going forward.

 

[espola]

This seems to be a fairly balanced article on how high school soccer is playing out under the BDA. It may be a little outdated. http://www.si.com/soccer/2012/09/07/development-academies-high-school

Someone raised the issue of kids on scholarships in high school - a very compelling point. DA gives exemptions to the "no other league" rule, which helped with this particular issue on the boy's side. I did see that exemptions are still allowed upon request. We'll see what adjustments they make going forward.

Are you suggesting that someone could lose their academic/need high school scholarship if they don't play soccer for the school?

 

[soccermanifesto]

From what I've seen, most kids want to play high school soccer with their classmates and represent their school. But on the girls side with very few exceptions, it is about the ugliest brand of soccer imaginable and a recipe for nasty and serious injuries much more so than club, because you have unskilled players playing with skilled players.

I've seen YNT players play on horrible HS teams out of position and passing it to unskilled players for the inevitable turnover, high level girls sustain bad year long injuries, goalies crashed into and even kicked in the head seconds after they've secured the ball, and a whole lotta kickball. Again, there are exceptions I can count on with one hand, but it's somewhere between a demolition derby and a hot mess.

So strictly in terms of development or improving as a player, your player is missing zero by not playing high school ball.