5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

Grace T. said:
Oh I get your daughter. I’d probably have the same rule. Where I raise the question is with you being uncomfortable being touched by a man. Or what about your wife if she got a male massage and enjoyed it. Or is that the point you enjoy being touched by the woman, ok with your wife enjoying a man but don’t want your daughter since she’s too young
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You make a fair point Grace... As for me being uncomfortable with a man giving me a massage, that’s just how I’m wired. It’s not some deep philosophical thing Grace... You see it’s more about what I’m used to so let’s be real, most massage therapists are women, and I’ve mostly been massaged by Asian women because they are amazing at what they do. The stats back me up... women make up the majority of massage therapists, so it’s just how things have played out. Nature has conditioned me to associate comfort with that experience, and I’m cool with it.

Now, when it comes to my wife? If she gets a massage from a man and enjoys it, I’ve got no problem with that. I’m not the jealous type Grace smh... I know her, I trust her, and her personality is rock solid. Plus, let’s face it, sometimes a good massage is just a good massage right?

But with my daughter? That’s where my philosophy kicks in. It’s about protecting what I value most my family 😎. The decisions I make are rooted in ensuring she feels secure and that I’m doing my job as a dad to protect her from situations that could cause harm or discomfort. So yeah, I’m sticking to my guns on that one because it gives me peace of mind knowing I’ve done my part as a protective father. We’re all creatures of habit and comfort zones Gracie, and I’m just rolling with mine.
 
Veritas said:
You make a fair point Grace... As for me being uncomfortable with a man giving me a massage, that’s just how I’m wired. It’s not some deep philosophical thing Grace... You see it’s more about what I’m used to so let’s be real, most massage therapists are women, and I’ve mostly been massaged by Asian women because they are amazing at what they do. The stats back me up... women make up the majority of massage therapists, so it’s just how things have played out. Nature has conditioned me to associate comfort with that experience, and I’m cool with it.

Now, when it comes to my wife? If she gets a massage from a man and enjoys it, I’ve got no problem with that. I’m not the jealous type Grace smh... I know her, I trust her, and her personality is rock solid. Plus, let’s face it, sometimes a good massage is just a good massage right?

But with my daughter? That’s where my philosophy kicks in. It’s about protecting what I value most my family 😎. The decisions I make are rooted in ensuring she feels secure and that I’m doing my job as a dad to protect her from situations that could cause harm or discomfort. So yeah, I’m sticking to my guns on that one because it gives me peace of mind knowing I’ve done my part as a protective father. We’re all creatures of habit and comfort zones Gracie, and I’m just rolling with mine.
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Well your position then is entirely consistent. Good for you! You came through the gauntlet and can be proud of your consistency and recognition of biases.

Women make up the major of massage therapists because a) women are concerned with men touching them, and b) men tend to have a phobia about other men touching them. That said, it's mostly a cultural thing...men actually give the better deep issue massages (they are just more forceful), for that reason I tend to avoid women physical therapists, and in northern Europe the male therapist numbers are higher because the Europeans get this and have a tendency to want same sex masseuers.
 
Grace T. said:
Well your position then is entirely consistent. Good for you! You came through the gauntlet and can be proud of your consistency and recognition of biases.

Women make up the major of massage therapists because a) women are concerned with men touching them, and b) men tend to have a phobia about other men touching them. That said, it's mostly a cultural thing...men actually give the better deep issue massages (they are just more forceful), for that reason I tend to avoid women physical therapists, and in northern Europe the male therapist numbers are higher because the Europeans get this and have a tendency to want same sex masseuers.
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So I've passed the @Grace T. test ?

Grace, I’m glad you see the consistency here! It’s not often a man can come out of a conversation about massages without feeling like he’s tiptoeing through a minefield, so I'll take that win 😁

You’re absolutely right about the cultural aspect. Men have this unspoken “rule” about not being touched by other men unless it’s a bro hug or a tackle in football. It’s like some primal instinct just hardwired into us. And, yeah, maybe guys in Europe have figured it out, but over here, I’m sticking with what’s worked: women, especially Asian women, who’ve mastered the art of making knots disappear like magic. Sure, men might be able to knead out muscles with brute strength, but I’m not signing up for an arm wrestling match; I just want to relax! 😎

Now, I’m all for giving credit where it’s due... guys might give killer deep tissue massages, but hey, I’ve got my comfort zone, and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it right? Plus, the moment I lie down on that table, I’m in my happy place, and why mess with a good thing? It’s like my internal defense mechanism saying, “You’re good, no need for extra force!”

So, while Northern Europeans might have no issues with same-sex massages, I’m good right here, with the familiar, the consistent, and the tried and true. I may have my biases, but at least I own them with a smile, right? 😀
 
watfly said:
No need to explain.

And like clockwork GraceT jumps in with hypotheticals and then wants you to explain your biases, after you already graciously explained your answers.
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It's what I do...it's what I trained in....it's how Socrates advocated that we get to truth, or veritas (isn't that cute)....it's how you test ethical and legal principles....it's how philosophy and ethics gets done....and it's how we grow as human beings, by questioning ourselves.
 
crush said:
May I ask out of curiosity what made you think this was a Trans Massage Therapist? TMT is what my buddy calls they & them in the massage industry. It's big business these days. A lot of men like the look of a female but the body and strength like a mans.
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So how did I know it was a Trans MTF. Ahh well I based it on past experience and common sense. She did not look like a woman imo. Big hands, adam's apple. And she just had that male face structure that you can't quite hide. I could tell it was not a cis woman and I'm sure you would have agreed with me if you would have seen her as well. Now could she have been intersex? Very possible she could have been but I do not regret my decision of having my 14 year old daughter massaged by another woman.
 
Veritas said:
Now, when it comes to my wife? If she gets a massage from a man and enjoys it, I’ve got no problem with that. I’m not the jealous type Grace smh... I know her, I trust her, and her personality is rock solid. Plus, let’s face it, sometimes a good massage is just a good massage right?
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I love this right here brother. No jealousy is what makes for a lifelong partner. The girls call these Guru's Yoni Masters. These guys are amazing with the touch and are masters at their craft and know how to put a woman at ease. Women need a massage too, right? This reminds me of a true story Veritas. My wife's very good friend was married to a complete asshole who drank every night. Their sex life was all about him and she would submit like the good little slave that she was of 30 years to this guy. Yes, she stayed home and took care of the kids, but she could not please her abusive husband The guy blamed her because she didn't produce the natural honey when he came unto her, and he blamed her. Anyway, he told her to seek medical help with her issues and left her for another, younger lady. Anyway, she was a complete mess and thought she was done with sex and that she was the problem. She is very beautiful woman from Iran and is truly a Goddess. Turns out, it was her husband's fault for not romancing her and treating her like the Queen Bee to produce. He was a dick, and he got exactly what he put into the relationship, all dry. My wife's friend went to a Yoni Master bro and let me just say, she produced the best honey west of the Mississippi. She is single and 50 and is amazing.
 
pewpew said:
The bigger question that begs answering is why would you even care if you passed or not?
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Only he can answer if he is ethical. That's the entire point of ethics. The other thing is he acknowledged his bias which means he is more evolved than most (1/2 of all people refuse to acknowledge their biases....mine is against introverted controlling math teachers, for example). I can only observe that he isn't a hypocrite, he has sound reasoning, and he (like we all) has biases. Only he can answer if he is ok with it, but that's how we grow as human beings.
 
Grace T. said:
Dad 4 and I have never been in the same camp. We don’t like each other.
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And this is why you should still be sitting at the kiddie-table. "We don't like each other." I haven't seen @dad4 post that. Please cite your evidence counselor. We are all adults here despite the fact it seems there are times it doesn't show. But to say you don't like someone over an internet discussion, that's going to the bottom of the well for that one. That's a typical liberal response. Go ahead and tell us now that you're an independent and more middle-of-the-road. (Getting the popcorn as you say.)
 
Grace T. said:
Only he can answer if he is ethical. That's the entire point of ethics. The other thing is he acknowledged his bias which means he is more evolved than most (1/2 of all people refuse to acknowledge their biases....mine is against introverted controlling math teachers, for example). I can only observe that he isn't a hypocrite, he has sound reasoning, and he (like we all) has biases. Only he can answer if he is ok with it, but that's how we grow as human beings.
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And I still in shock that you didn't call him out as transphobic for his decision.
A math teacher is your only bias?! How about "People that don't agree with me for $500 Alex?"
 
Grace T. said:
I like the game…demand I produce your quote, I produce your quote, it accurately sets out what you said, you run away from it, and then like a magician you do some magic hand waiving to avoid it. You got served. It’s there, in black and white, you bigot. Good day sir.

Nah just speculating on why the gentleman is so angry and protests so much? If not f’d in the a, then what is it? Cause some self hatred going there.
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No, you didn't produce my quote because you quoted me as saying something completely different. Same thing you do to everyone else.

I realize YOU think you quoted me... but you didn't.
 
pewpew said:
And this is why you should still be sitting at the kiddie-table. "We don't like each other." I haven't seen @dad4 post that. Please cite your evidence counselor. We are all adults here despite the fact it seems there are times it doesn't show. But to say you don't like someone over an internet discussion, that's going to the bottom of the well for that one. That's a typical liberal response. Go ahead and tell us now that you're an independent and more middle-of-the-road. (Getting the popcorn as you say.)
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The Covid forum. It was insults all the way down and in that instance I was the conservative (Trump is right, Fauci is wrong) and he was the liberal (Biden is right, mask mandates and vaccines, force people to stay in their homes like Australia). There’s a long history there not just this one topic. It got personal and involved criticism of our respective kids.
 
pewpew said:
The bigger question that begs answering is why would you even care if you passed or not?
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Passing Grace’s test? 😄 That’s just me keeping the art of subtle charm alive... after all, every philosophical gauntlet deserves a grand finale, right? especially when you’ve got the other nodding in quiet agreement.
 
crush said:
The best massage I ever got was from a gay man named Troy. This was early 2000s. I was very happy with my massage because Troy knew where all my tight spots were. He never once hit on me or asked me if I wanted an upgrade. Dude was not cheap but by far the best ever.
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I want to walk away from this post, Crush. I don't think I can... but I want to.
 
pewpew said:
But to say you don't like someone over an internet discussion, that's going to the bottom of the well for that one. That's a typical liberal response.
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As opposed to "I didn't say that, please don't quote me", being the typical response of anyone arguing poorly in an internet discussion.
 
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