Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[dk_b]

Just reading comments from the women who competed against Lia Thomas and came in 2d, 3d and 4th in the 500 yard race won by Thomas. They were commenting how the photo of the 3 of them - apparently "protesting" Thomas - was taken out of context and that they supported her inclusion in the competition. Then I read this article which presents an analysis of Thomas as a swimmer - pre- and post-transition. It also makes a great point that none of us probably realizes who the actual superstar of that NCAA championship was and just how many records were set (none by Thomas; Thomas was no where close to Ledecky's existing record in the 500 yard free, fwiw, and also failed to make the finals in several events). The article is here for those who wish to read it: Lia Thomas: Trans swimmer didn’t have unfair advantage, data shows | The Independent

I tend to the side of inclusion. As I noted, I have 3 daughters who compete in sports (one at a very high level, 2 who hope to get there). I don't see this ever being a big problem because, as I have stated, I don't see a rush of adolescent or post-adolescent boys/young men "acting trans" in order to compete and I don't see the idea of a "super team" of trans girls/trans women existing anywhere other than in the efforts to create a bogeyman. As society tends toward more acceptance, I still don't see the numbers increasing all that much - after all, as the stigma around being out of the closet has reduced over the decades, the percentage of out gay people has remained pretty constant. Being outwardly trans and able to compete - basically being able to live a full life like my daughters are able to do - does not threaten me and I don't believe it threatens them. They have played against bigger, stronger, players and have been the bigger, stronger, players (less so with my 2 younger daughters). And they will continue to do so. If they compete against a trans player or lose their spots to trans players, that's how it goes because, to me (and to them), they'd be losing their spots to another girl/woman who could perform better.

It is funny/interesting to me that this thread is continuing as everyone's position is well-established, the memes continue (and are consistently offensive or funny, depending on where one sits - they certainly are not opinion-changing), and the insults don't really change. I consider myself the fool b/c I keep reading messages as if I'm going to see something new (instead of agreeing with the ones posted by X while disagreeing with the ones posted by Y, each and every time).

 

[SurFutbol]

His argument, though, in particular is especially funny. Because he's arguing all these other things are fine and well for flight 1, but ECNL is somehow serious soccer where the competition actually matters, despite the incessant harping (not necessarily by him) on these forums by people that so and so doesn't deserve to be in ECNL and ECNL has so watered down the competition. Having seen how the academy boys train, trust me, it ain't nothing like the academy ball....night and day....not even close.

In the end it's all about money, as most human conflicts are (besides the prejudices and tribalism we all have and foster). I still think it's funny everyone was harping about "oh have them compete by themselves" until it was pointed out to them that it likely means scholarships will have to be taken away from others to fund these new levels of competition.

And the cherry on top of the Sunday is the mansplaining about misogyny.

"Mansplaining" is exactly right. If anything, his proclamations that biological girls can't compete against a team with one trans girl (other than every single daughter of every single transphobe here apparently) and that all biological females are uniformly opposed to doing so, are the misogynistic ones. His inaccurate assumption that girls can't possibly look at trans participation as an opportunity to support trans children is misogynistic. His assumption that girls won't look at the opportunity to train with or play against an "athletically superior" trans girl as a development opportunity and not self-pity that they might not win a trophy or might lose a few minutes of playing time is the misogynistic one. This whole bs paternalistic notion that they need to protect girls even when there is no legitimate safety risk is the misognynistic one. Their assumption that girls are so emotionally fragile that their self-esteem will be ruined forever if they lose a game or a trophy to a team that has a trans player is the misogynistic one.

 

[SurFutbol]

Just reading comments from the women who competed against Lia Thomas and came in 2d, 3d and 4th in the 500 yard race won by Thomas. They were commenting how the photo of the 3 of them - apparently "protesting" Thomas - was taken out of context and that they supported her inclusion in the competition. Then I read this article which presents an analysis of Thomas as a swimmer - pre- and post-transition. It also makes a great point that none of us probably realizes who the actual superstar of that NCAA championship was and just how many records were set (none by Thomas; Thomas was no where close to Ledecky's existing record in the 500 yard free, fwiw, and also failed to make the finals in several events). The article is here for those who wish to read it: Lia Thomas: Trans swimmer didn’t have unfair advantage, data shows | The Independent

I tend to the side of inclusion. As I noted, I have 3 daughters who compete in sports (one at a very high level, 2 who hope to get there). I don't see this ever being a big problem because, as I have stated, I don't see a rush of adolescent or post-adolescent boys/young men "acting trans" in order to compete and I don't see the idea of a "super team" of trans girls/trans women existing anywhere other than in the efforts to create a bogeyman. As society tends toward more acceptance, I still don't see the numbers increasing all that much - after all, as the stigma around being out of the closet has reduced over the decades, the percentage of out gay people has remained pretty constant. Being outwardly trans and able to compete - basically being able to live a full life like my daughters are able to do - does not threaten me and I don't believe it threatens them. They have played against bigger, stronger, players and have been the bigger, stronger, players (less so with my 2 younger daughters). And they will continue to do so. If they compete against a trans player or lose their spots to trans players, that's how it goes because, to me (and to them), they'd be losing their spots to another girl/woman who could perform better.

It is funny/interesting to me that this thread is continuing as everyone's position is well-established, the memes continue (and are consistently offensive or funny, depending on where one sits - they certainly are not opinion-changing), and the insults don't really change. I consider myself the fool b/c I keep reading messages as if I'm going to see something new (instead of agreeing with the ones posted by X while disagreeing with the ones posted by Y, each and every time).

The biggest tragedy of the Lia Thomas situation, IMO, is that transphobes keep using it as their main excuse to treat 13 year old girls like shit. At least Ms. Thomas is an adult at an Ivy League school with a bright future, and therefore better positioned to deal with the abuse that is dumped on her. She was also surely aware what was coming when she made the decision to participate. At least the NCAA finals have some relative importance, unlike any U14 soccer game ever played.

 

[Soccer Dad & Ref]

Just reading comments from the women who competed against Lia Thomas and came in 2d, 3d and 4th in the 500 yard race won by Thomas. They were commenting how the photo of the 3 of them - apparently "protesting" Thomas - was taken out of context and that they supported her inclusion in the competition. Then I read this article which presents an analysis of Thomas as a swimmer - pre- and post-transition. It also makes a great point that none of us probably realizes who the actual superstar of that NCAA championship was and just how many records were set (none by Thomas; Thomas was no where close to Ledecky's existing record in the 500 yard free, fwiw, and also failed to make the finals in several events). The article is here for those who wish to read it: Lia Thomas: Trans swimmer didn’t have unfair advantage, data shows | The Independent

I tend to the side of inclusion. As I noted, I have 3 daughters who compete in sports (one at a very high level, 2 who hope to get there). I don't see this ever being a big problem because, as I have stated, I don't see a rush of adolescent or post-adolescent boys/young men "acting trans" in order to compete and I don't see the idea of a "super team" of trans girls/trans women existing anywhere other than in the efforts to create a bogeyman. As society tends toward more acceptance, I still don't see the numbers increasing all that much - after all, as the stigma around being out of the closet has reduced over the decades, the percentage of out gay people has remained pretty constant. Being outwardly trans and able to compete - basically being able to live a full life like my daughters are able to do - does not threaten me and I don't believe it threatens them. They have played against bigger, stronger, players and have been the bigger, stronger, players (less so with my 2 younger daughters). And they will continue to do so. If they compete against a trans player or lose their spots to trans players, that's how it goes because, to me (and to them), they'd be losing their spots to another girl/woman who could perform better.

It is funny/interesting to me that this thread is continuing as everyone's position is well-established, the memes continue (and are consistently offensive or funny, depending on where one sits - they certainly are not opinion-changing), and the insults don't really change. I consider myself the fool b/c I keep reading messages as if I'm going to see something new (instead of agreeing with the ones posted by X while disagreeing with the ones posted by Y, each and every time).

Very well put, thanks for this thoughtful insight.

Shame on me too for coming here and hoping something new comes out, or that the transphobes become enlightened. Neither has happened, but here I am, still hoping.

 

[Jose has returned]

"Mansplaining" is exactly right. If anything, his proclamations that biological girls can't compete against a team with one trans girl (other than every single daughter of every single transphobe here apparently) and that all biological females are uniformly opposed to doing so, are the misogynistic ones. His inaccurate assumption that girls can't possibly look at trans participation as an opportunity to support trans children is misogynistic. His assumption that girls won't look at the opportunity to train with or play against an "athletically superior" trans girl as a development opportunity and not self-pity that they might not win a trophy or might lose a few minutes of playing time is the misogynistic one. This whole bs paternalistic notion that they need to protect girls even when there is no legitimate safety risk is the misognynistic one. Their assumption that girls are so emotionally fragile that their self-esteem will be ruined forever if they lose a game or a trophy to a team that has a trans player is the misogynistic one.

You are very misandrist. you should stop

 

[Happened again]

Is that what your crazy alt nutter media is feeding you? Are you losing your mind that a hoard of trans people are going to have "sex changes", rape your children, and then take over the world? You obviously have no idea what gender affirming surgery is and isn't. Gender affirming surgery can help someone become closer physically to their gender identity, but it obviously doesn't make you the other gender biologically. Although you obviously don't want to live in reality, the truth is that those who choose to undergo gender affirming procedures go through a rigorous process that involves significant counseling and discussion about what these procedures do and don't. One of the things that is almost always discussed - although anyone with a brain instead of a transphobic pos bias like you - is that although the procedures can change a person physically to be more in line with their actual gender identity, there are significant limits that do not make the the other sex biologically. The only literal idiot here is you. I hate to break this to you, but all the hysteria you see at NewsMax and OANN is b.s.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with a trans child playing kiddie sports.

Listen mr barrister - you have a great grasp of ideology and often circle down the toilet with it. You've completely missed the point.

I'm excited to hear all about your grasp of gender affirming surgery and your unbiased view of how effective it is when used as treatment. The rest of your crap is pulled from whatever playbook you read. Try to not color outside of the lines and throw around big boy medical terms. your mansplaining is weak. The idea that a transadult has never raped/assaulted a young girl is silly. Stick to the on the field transgender argument, which is better suited to your chops. At this point you don't even know what you are arguing about - your best tactic is to label those that are obviously not transphobe (which is an awful term) as transphobe followed by silly accusations of watching some fringe media site. To be fair, as you've transitioned from one name to the other, you've been consistent in your nonsense.

 

[Happened again]

Very well put, thanks for this thoughtful insight.

Shame on me too for coming here and hoping something new comes out, or that the transphobes become enlightened. Neither has happened, but here I am, still hoping.

who exactly are the transphobes?

 

[Happened again]

Does it just make you so angry that Webster's Dictionary defines girl as "a person whose gender identity is female"? Are you sad that you don't get to define the word "fair" however you want?

No, you're just referring to chromosomes to avoid exposing using pronouns that would expose your incredible hostility toward trans children, but also to give the illusion that your blathering is based in science when the reality is that kiddie sports participation rules are (and should be) based on a combination of factors that include science but also include not being a shitbag. So can your daughter compete against trans girls, or is she terrible at soccer and should consider something more in conformity with the traditional gender roles that you expect?

Ahhh, the attack on someone's daughter - SOP for you. Isn't it great that Webster's has 2 definitions of girl? How does the first one make you feel? What's Webster's definition of sex?

 

[SurFutbol]

Listen mr barrister - you have a great grasp of ideology and often circle down the toilet with it. You've completely missed the point.

I'm excited to hear all about your grasp of gender affirming surgery and your unbiased view of how effective it is when used as treatment. The rest of your crap is pulled from whatever playbook you read. Try to not color outside of the lines and throw around big boy medical terms. your mansplaining is weak. The idea that a transadult has never raped/assaulted a young girl is silly. Stick to the on the field transgender argument, which is better suited to your chops. At this point you don't even know what you are arguing about - your best tactic is to label those that are obviously not transphobe (which is an awful term) as transphobe followed by silly accusations of watching some fringe media site. To be fair, as you've transitioned from one name to the other, you've been consistent in your nonsense.

So you're actually worried that a trans girl will rape your daughter in the bathroom? Based on your mocking of gender affirming surgery, I take it you think the mere fact of being transgender is "wrong"?

 

[crush]

Very well put, thanks for this thoughtful insight.

Shame on me too for coming here and hoping something new comes out, or that the transphobes become enlightened. Neither has happened, but here I am, still hoping.

DK is 100% Sage advice. He has experience and 3 dds to boot. However, where one lives in this country and who parents are will shape and mold dds. I love sage advice but it's just advice. Question for you two if you don't mind. What is your take on Transgender MTF having membership at Girls Club and has the right to use girls locker room. Thanks. I'm going to take 3 days off beginning tomorrow at 3:33pm. Prayer & fasting for many causes. I will come back a more compassionate man and more thoughtful towards other.

 

[SurFutbol]

Ahhh, the attack on someone's daughter - SOP for you. Isn't it great that Webster's has 2 definitions of girl? How does the first one make you feel? What's Webster's definition of sex?

Uh, a trans girl is someone's daughter too, but that obviously never crossed your mind. If you and others aren't going to treat trans girls with dignity and respect, why are you expecting anyone to treat yours that way? But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Is your daughter not so feeble and pathetic that she can compete against trans girls? Is she emotionally mature enough that losing a soccer game or trophy won't destroy her self-esteem forever?

I have no problem with both Webster's definitions. Unlike you, I understand that they can live in harmony. Also unlike you, I understand that the dictionary does not define whom ECNL and CIF are allowed to let participate in their sports.

 

[SurFutbol]

DK is 100% Sage advice. He has experience and 3 dds to boot. However, where one lives in this country and who parents are will shape and mold dds. I love sage advice but it's just advice. Question for you two if you don't mind. What is your take on Transgender MTF having membership at Girls Club and has the right to use girls locker room. Thanks. I'm going to take 3 days off beginning tomorrow at 3:33pm. Prayer & fasting for many causes. I will come back a more compassionate man and more thoughtful towards other.

Why don't you ask your god whether he thought your transphobic memes were a hoot?

 

[dad4]

Very well put, thanks for this thoughtful insight.

Shame on me too for coming here and hoping something new comes out, or that the transphobes become enlightened. Neither has happened, but here I am, still hoping.

Maybe you could stop calling people transphobe just because they want fair competitions?

When I say, “XY athletes belong in XY leagues”, it just means that I think the transgirl belongs in my son’s league instead of my daughter’s. Somehow you twist that into claiming that people like me must hate all trans people.

Just take people at their word. If someone says they think mtf athletes have an unfair advantage over biological girls, it means exactly what the words say, no more and no less.

 

[Soccer Dad & Ref]

DK is 100% Sage advice. He has experience and 3 dds to boot. However, where one lives in this country and who parents are will shape and mold dds. I love sage advice but it's just advice. Question for you two if you don't mind. What is your take on Transgender MTF having membership at Girls Club and has the right to use girls locker room. Thanks. I'm going to take 3 days off beginning tomorrow at 3:33pm. Prayer & fasting for many causes. I will come back a more compassionate man and more thoughtful towards other.

What happened in Santee was a shame, because Faux News and QUSI grabbed hold of a partial lie and made it a huge story. Brought out the worst of their viewers to the town.

I'm not worried about transgender people using the restroom or locker room that best suits them. I'm worried about those that actually intend harm, and it's not most transgender people. It's kinda like the argument about allowing girls with long nails playing soccer. I'm only worried about the little B's that use them as weapons, but am not going to stop a girl with 1-inch nails from playing. 99% of the girls with long nails play fairly.

I'm more worried about priests to tell you the truth. The percentage of them that have done nasty things is much higher than transgender people. Are you here to ensure they stop using locker rooms of either gender? You should be

 

[Grace T.]

Maybe you could stop calling people transphobe just because they want fair competitions?

When I say, “XY athletes belong in XY leagues”, it just means that I think the transgirl belongs in my son’s league instead of my daughter’s. Somehow you twist that into claiming that people like me must hate all trans people.

Just take people at their word. If someone says they think mtf athletes have an unfair advantage over biological girls, it means exactly what the words say, no more and no less.

We all have our prejudices. That why I don't like it when people label each other a "racist" or "transphobe". Everybody is a little bit racist no matter who you are. Everyone is a little bit bigoted.

That said, several of the comment's you've made have crossed the line and a more introspective person would examine what biases (which we all have) they are brining to the table as a result.

 

[Soccer Dad & Ref]

Maybe you could stop calling people transphobe just because they want fair competitions?

When I say, “XY athletes belong in XY leagues”, it just means that I think the transgirl belongs in my son’s league instead of my daughter’s. Somehow you twist that into claiming that people like me must hate all trans people.

Just take people at their word. If someone says they think mtf athletes have an unfair advantage over biological girls, it means exactly what the words say, no more and no less.

if only people would have taken the good people's word in the South when they said colored people shouldn't go to school with the white kids.

What are your thoughts on transgender people using the restroom or locker room of their choice?

 

[crush]

Why don't you ask your god whether he thought your transphobic memes were a hoot?

I will ask my Lord during this time of deep thought, prayer and meditation. I feel bad that my memes hurt you so much. I had no idea. Please forgive me. I will take it all to my God for three day fast. No Social Media, no media, no nothing, just me and nature and just water for 72 hours. I will end this fast Sunday and catch up on all that has happen. If I get through it before bedtime, expect a response from me. Grace and DK on your side with this issue is strong, I'll give you that.

 

[crush]

if only people would have taken the good people's word in the South when they said colored people shouldn't go to school with the white kids.

What are your thoughts on transgender people using the restroom or locker room of their choice?

I am for anyone using a restroom for one person only and a lock. Locker room and showers for those with the same thing down there. If each shower has a lock and private, then no problem with transgender dressing. What about LA Fitness Soccer Dad & Ref? Can MTF walk in and use the showers and just walk around naked in the locker room. Thanks for the discussion. I want to work out a solution.

 

[dad4]

if only people would have taken the good people's word in the South when they said colored people shouldn't go to school with the white kids.

What are your thoughts on transgender people using the restroom or locker room of their choice?

What is the point of the comparison to southern racism of 60-70 years ago? Neither you nor I were even alive back then.

I just asked you to take me at my word and treat me with respect. You respond with a very thinly veiled and completely unsupported racism accusation.

It’s not productive. It doesn’t communicate. It’s rude and nothing more.

 

[Grace T.]

I will ask my Lord during this time of deep thought, prayer and meditation. I feel bad that my memes hurt you so much. I had no idea. Please forgive me. I will take it all to my God for three day fast. No Social Media, no media, no nothing, just me and nature and just water for 72 hours. I will end this fast Sunday and catch up on all that has happen. If I get through it before bedtime, expect a response from me. Grace and DK on your side with this issue is strong, I'll give you that.

I'm actually surprised EOTL is being somewhat reasonable and reasoned on this point. I thought for sure he'd take the hard core left view: anyone at any time can declare themselves trans and play with the opposite gender and have free range of locker rooms, restrooms, and showers; athletic balance shouldn't be taken into account; they are functionally equivalent to biological men and women (e.g., men can have periods too) and you must say they are stunning and brave. I'm actually surprised no one here has done that, while on twitter for sure someone always does, maybe because we all (including EOTL) have a better appreciation of what goes into the intricacies of competitive sports.