Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

GLangevinito said:
Your arguments are: 1) Trans girls have to endure mocking and humiliation so we should just let them keep their athletic advantage, and 2) We should overlook fairness because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.

1) Irrelevant to the issue of fairness on the field.
2) Disagree. You could use the same argument to argue against age separation. Why shouldn't a U18 play U12 if they want to?
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1. No, society's interests in terms of what is and isn't fair in life cannot be limited or ignored by drawing chalk lines around a patch of grass and proclaiming that only those things that you want to happen inside them can be used to determine what is and isn't fair. In reality, there is nothing that makes the "sanctity" of a children's game so important that it justifies ignoring every single societal interest that supports letting trans kid play. In reality, you are just using the term "fairness" because that sounds better than what you really mean, which is "ignoring every societal interest that conflicts with my hatred of trans children and my fear that my daughter may never win a trophy."

2. Uh, this is exactly why most state HS federations allow 17-year old HS juniors to play JV against 13-year old freshmen. It is why I've seen a league allow a new high school with mostly freshman and only a handful of sophomores field a varsity soccer team and regularly get their ass kicked by 18 year olds. It's why 13 year old freshmen regularly compete in varsity sports. It's the reason one of my kids was often "deprived" of medals in 5k growing up because he had to compete in U18 age groups. Leagues allow things like this to happen because they recognize that society's overall interest in developing adults who don't grow up to be transphobic shitbag whiners is more important than who wins or loses a stupid child's game.

Do you know what is actually fair? Leagues making participation decisions based on all relevant societal interests, rather than just your transphobic ones.
 
Maximus09 said:
Good response
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Care to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV against a team of 13 year olds despite a four year physical, emotional and intellectual advantage, yet world is going to end if the league lets a 13 year trans girl play, even if she's playing varsity against mostly 18 year olds? Is it because winning and losing isn't important so long as everyone is the same birth gender, but "the sanctity of sports" suddenly becomes your best excuse to avoid having to admit that your real reason is that you hate trans children?
 
GLangevinito said:
This is just another version of Grace's and SurFutbol's main argument: it's not a problem yet so why are we discussing it?

It's mostly a theoretical problem as of today. But it's something all youth sports will have to deal with, and like it or not, there are only so many spots on elite teams. There are only so many scholarships per team. Starting at puberty, and widening every year, is an athleticism gap between boys and girls. If we take the hypothetical that a 17 boy begins to transition to a woman, and is good enough to play on a top girls team - who loses their spot? Who loses playtime? Who loses a potential scholarship?

Maybe SF is right and it just sucks for the girl who loses out, but we tell her to make that sacrifice in the name of inclusivity. I don't know.
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When you say "it's not a problem yet", you are obviously wrong. The abysmal treatment of trans children has always been a problem. Why is it that you ignore the existing actual problem and focus on fake theoretical ones? I'll tell you. It is because you are part of the cause of the actual problem, and this is the only way you have to distract from that fact and disclaim responsibility for your transphobia. But go ahead and use the "sanctity" of kiddie soccer as an excuse to continue treating trans children poorly. Go ahead and continue trying to define "fair" as what only what you think best benefits transphobic dads with daughters who are terrible soccer players. CIF, ECNL and the NCAA aren't buying your bs for a second.
 
SurFutbol said:
Care to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV against a team of 13 year olds despite a four year physical, emotional and intellectual advantage, yet world is going to end if the league lets a 13 year trans girl play, even if she's playing varsity against mostly 18 year olds? Is it because winning and losing isn't important so long as everyone is the same birth gender, but "the sanctity of sports" suddenly becomes your best excuse to avoid having to admit that your real reason is that you hate trans children?
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Interesting that you should mention 13 year olds playing against 17-18 year olds.

For sprint times, that’s roughly the same difference as between a man and a woman. About 10% faster. Enough to decide the winner in almost any foot race.

Care to address the issue, or do you just want to call everyone transphobe ten more times?
 
dad4 said:
Interesting that you should mention 13 year olds playing against 17-18 year olds.

For sprint times, that’s roughly the same difference as between a man and a woman. About 10% faster. Enough to decide the winner in almost any foot race.

Care to address the issue, or do you just want to call everyone transphobe ten more times?
Click to expand...

The truth hurts. If you are going to refuse to consider the legitimate the interests of trans girls, why do you expect anyone to engage with you about the interests of transphobic daddies with daughters who are terrible at soccer? But I will because it's fun and I've got some time again today.

1. It's good for your slow daughter's sake that a soccer game is not the 100m dash.
2. Even if it were, it's just a race between two children that does not matter. Even if a race is used for college recruiting, colleges recruit on time, not whether a biological girl beat a trans one. When the Connecticut Karens lost her HS race, the only negative impact to her was hurt feelings that one didn't get the medal she wanted and another didn't qualify and was therefore "deprived" the chance to come in last place in the next race. BTW, rather than the bs argument about creating separate leagues for trans girls, we can better solve your problem by making a new league specifically for emotionally feeble Karens. That way the majority of girls who don't support your transphobic agenda can continue playing ECNL with the incredibly rare trans girl, while your slow daughter can also play without having to worry that she might get raped in a bathroom, or lose a kiddie soccer game to a team with a trans girl, or see a penis in all those group showers that don't really exist in ECNL, or maybe realize that trans girls are not a threat to her way of life and that there is no hateful transphobic god, or whatever other irrational nonsense causes you and your friends lose sleep.
3. If you think it's "fair" for a 17 year old junior to play against 13 year old freshman, you really don't have a legitimate argument to protest about a 13 year old trans girl playing in her own age group. If anything, the 17 year old biological girl playing JV is less fair because she also has years of emotional and intellectual advantages that a trans girl in her own age group lacks.
4. Regardless of how much you rely on statistical averages, the reality is that the speed and athleticism of the average trans child is not the same as that of the "average" biological male. Comparing "averages" is just an excuse to deny the reality of what is happening. Never in history has there been a trans girl in ECNL or GDA who was athletically superior to any number of her own teammates. Your irrational fears that the next LeBron James and a hoard of other highly athletic biological male athlete, will "go trans" and ruin youth sports is a joke fueled only by transphobic hysteria. Probably some trans girls are faster than your unathletic daughter, sure, but that says more about her having no business on the field than any trans girl having an "unfair" physical advantage.
5. Fairness requires considering everyone's interests, not just your slow daughter's. Inclusivity, privacy, empathy and the incredibly obvious fact that winning and losing at kiddie sports is not important, all weigh in favor of allowing a trans girl to play ECNL, especially since ECNL agrees with me. If that means that your unathletic daughter who is terrible at soccer moves farther down the bench, whatever. Her interests in being the 17th best player on the team instead of 18th aren't exactly compelling.
 
SurFutbol said:
Care to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV against a team of 13 year olds despite a four year physical, emotional and intellectual advantage, yet world is going to end if the league lets a 13 year trans girl play, even if she's playing varsity against mostly 18 year olds? Is it because winning and losing isn't important so long as everyone is the same birth gender, but "the sanctity of sports" suddenly becomes your best excuse to avoid having to admit that your real reason is that you hate trans children?
Click to expand...
No, I can't because it is not perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV.
 
SurFutbol said:
The truth hurts. If you are going to refuse to consider the legitimate the interests of trans girls, why do you expect anyone to engage with you about the interests of transphobic daddies with daughters who are terrible at soccer? But I will because it's fun and I've got some time again today.

1. It's good for your slow daughter's sake that a soccer game is not the 100m dash.
2. Even if it were, it's just a race between two children that does not matter. Even if a race is used for college recruiting, colleges recruit on time, not whether a biological girl beat a trans one. When the Connecticut Karens lost her HS race, the only negative impact to her was hurt feelings that one didn't get the medal she wanted and another didn't qualify and was therefore "deprived" the chance to come in last place in the next race. BTW, rather than the bs argument about creating separate leagues for trans girls, we can better solve your problem by making a new league specifically for emotionally feeble Karens. That way the majority of girls who don't support your transphobic agenda can continue playing ECNL with the incredibly rare trans girl, while your slow daughter can also play without having to worry that she might get raped in a bathroom, or lose a kiddie soccer game to a team with a trans girl, or see a penis in all those group showers that don't really exist in ECNL, or maybe realize that trans girls are not a threat to her way of life and that there is no hateful transphobic god, or whatever other irrational nonsense causes you and your friends lose sleep.
3. If you think it's "fair" for a 17 year old junior to play against 13 year old freshman, you really don't have a legitimate argument to protest about a 13 year old trans girl playing in her own age group. If anything, the 17 year old biological girl playing JV is less fair because she also has years of emotional and intellectual advantages that a trans girl in her own age group lacks.
4. Regardless of how much you rely on statistical averages, the reality is that the speed and athleticism of the average trans child is not the same as that of the "average" biological male. Comparing "averages" is just an excuse to deny the reality of what is happening. Never in history has there been a trans girl in ECNL or GDA who was athletically superior to any number of her own teammates. Your irrational fears that the next LeBron James and a hoard of other highly athletic biological male athlete, will "go trans" and ruin youth sports is a joke fueled only by transphobic hysteria. Probably some trans girls are faster than your unathletic daughter, sure, but that says more about her having no business on the field than any trans girl having an "unfair" physical advantage.
5. Fairness requires considering everyone's interests, not just your slow daughter's. Inclusivity, privacy, empathy and the incredibly obvious fact that winning and losing at kiddie sports is not important, all weigh in favor of allowing a trans girl to play ECNL, especially since ECNL agrees with me. If that means that your unathletic daughter who is terrible at soccer moves farther down the bench, whatever. Her interests in being the 17th best player on the team instead of 18th aren't exactly compelling.
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I don't think he said soccer game is a 100m dash.

Also, thank you for calling us transphobes less than 10 times.
 
crush said:
Let's here from what the Orange Man has to say on this topic. If The Lion Mr. Trump pulls off the upset in 2024, this is how he will handle things. Oh boy and oh joy, here we go again!! Buckle up buttle cups, it's about to get real gnarly!

rumble.com

President Trump’s Plan to Protect Children from Left-Wing Gender Insanity

President Trump today announced his plan to stop the chemical, physical, and emotional mutilation of our youth.
rumble.com rumble.com
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At some point, the left will realize that it looks bad to be the only one in the room who doesn't know what a woman is.

I'll still vote for grandpa if Trump's on the ballot, but not everyone agrees with me.
 
dad4 said:
At some point, the left will realize that it looks bad to be the only one in the room who doesn't know what a woman is.

I'll still vote for grandpa if Trump's on the ballot, but not everyone agrees with me.
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Yes, I don't agree but we can still agree to disagree. We both agree that we have way too many ACL in girls soccer and the sport is like Rugby. We disagree about Grandpa and that's ok.
 
Maximus09 said:
No, I can't because it is not perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV.
Click to expand...

That happens far more frequently, so why do you and your friends keep fixating only on trans children? Also, every day there are hundreds of soccer games being played in which a 13 year old girl is playing varsity against 17 and 18 year olds. Why aren't you focused on that? And why is it ok for a 13 year old girl to play against an entire team of 18 year olds, but you lose your mind if a 13 year old plays against the alleged functional equivalent of one 18 year old?

So are you saying that you support an outright ban on HS juniors playing JV regardless of the sport or context, or do you think that CIF and schools should look at multiple factors to determine what is appropriate, such as what sport is at issue and whether it can be done safely, whether the school's main goal is development or winning JV games, the extent to which the player is likely to have a negative impact on the "sanctity" of JV sports, whether any of the kids even care, etc.? You know, like what ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and others already do?
 
dad4 said:
At some point, the left will realize that it looks bad to be the only one in the room who doesn't know what a woman is.

I'll still vote for grandpa if Trump's on the ballot, but not everyone agrees with me.
Click to expand...

This is such a transphobic bs trope. Literally no one believes that trans girls are biological girls. If your problem is semantics, though, feel free to ask ECNL and others to rename their girls' leagues "biological and trans girls" leagues. Problem solved.

If you're also such a transphobic f**k that you refuse to refer to someone by their preferred pronoun, you are in luck that the English language is expansive enough to allow anyone with half a brain to avoid having to use them at all. Of course, that half a brain thing opens a whole new can of worms for you.

It is curious that you feel the need to tell people that you won't vote for Trump. This is psych 101 that you are trying to convince people (including yourself) that you aren't all bad despite taking what you know is a pretty abysmal position. This is just a variation on what is called "moral licensing by proxy". You are trying to rationalize your awful beliefs on an issue by vaguely associating yourself with someone who actually isn't a shitbag.
 
crush said:
Let's here from what the Orange Man has to say on this topic. If The Lion Mr. Trump pulls off the upset in 2024, this is how he will handle things. Oh boy and oh joy, here we go again!! Buckle up buttle cups, it's about to get real gnarly!

rumble.com

President Trump’s Plan to Protect Children from Left-Wing Gender Insanity

President Trump today announced his plan to stop the chemical, physical, and emotional mutilation of our youth.
rumble.com rumble.com
Click to expand...

I find it fascinating that no one here seems to believe that trans girls have ever been better than their own mediocre little princesses, yet they claim that trans children constitute an existential threat to the future of youth soccer due to their overwhelming physical dominance.

How about your daughter? Was she better or worse than all the trans girls in her age group? Did she ever get trans-handled, so to speak? And I don't mean in your irrational "rape in the bathroom" kind of way. What I mean is whether your daughter was so pathetic athletically that she could not compete against teams that had a trans player.
 
crush said:
www.foxnews.com

Transgender Instagram model allegedly murdered dad, stabbed sister after 'argument over a laptop': prosecutors

Nikki Secondino, a 22-year-old transgender Instagram model, was indicted in Brooklyn for allegedly bludgeoning and stabbing her father to death while also nearly killing her sister.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Transgender Instagram model allegedly murdered dad, stabbed sister after 'argument over a laptop': prosecutors

Prosecutors said Nikki Secondino "snapped" (you think?)

Nikki spotted her daddy asleep on the couch and bashed his head in with a hammer. That's not all cops said, Nick I mean Nikki, told investigators she "grabbed my favorite German steel knife and stabbed the shit out of him," the complaint says, according to the Post.

Nikki at first tried to blame the attack on a fabricated pair of robbers during a home invasion but later admitted to being behind the bloody rampage. Just 40 minutes after police arrived at the scene, she told officers, "They took my fucking family. Two men broke into the kitchen. They left through the window in the kitchen. They stabbed my father and sister. They tied me up. They tried to rape me," court filings say.

In a 2020 interview on the "United We Rant" podcast, Nikki Secondino said she was born Nicholas Secondino but transitioned to being a woman in her late teens, adding that her dad was supportive (and all you do is stab him to death Nikki?), according to the Post. She was sent back to Rikers Island, where she remains held without bail. Please do NOT release Nikki. Sad story. Seems like a nice dad too, Super supportive and all she does is kill her old man. I feel sick.
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Aaron Hernandez, Rae Carruth, Marcus Randle EL, Kevin Ware, Anthony Smith, Ray Lewis, Ray Rice. By your logic, I guess this means that heterosexual men should be barred from playing football?

So was your daughter so athletically challenged that she couldn't compete against the trans players who were her age or not?
 
SurFutbol said:
This is such a transphobic bs trope. Literally no one believes that trans girls are biological girls. If your problem is semantics, though, feel free to ask ECNL and others to rename their girls' leagues "biological and trans girls" leagues. Problem solved.

If you're also such a transphobic f**k that you refuse to refer to someone by their preferred pronoun, you are in luck that the English language is expansive enough to allow anyone with half a brain to avoid having to use them at all. Of course, that half a brain thing opens a whole new can of worms for you.

It is curious that you feel the need to tell people that you won't vote for Trump. This is psych 101 that you are trying to convince people (including yourself) that you aren't all bad despite taking what you know is a pretty abysmal position. This is just a variation on what is called "moral licensing by proxy". You are trying to rationalize your awful beliefs on an issue by vaguely associating yourself with someone who actually isn't a shitbag.
Click to expand...
I'd explain why the Democratic party has a problem here, but I'm not a biologist.

Maybe you can ask James Carville to explain it to you.
 
SurFutbol said:
Literally no one believes that trans girls are biological girls. I
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You are a literal idiot- there is an entire business being driven by people who are creating the idea that a trans female can become a bio female. Are you part of that idiot train? What a disgusting thing for you to say - you certainly hate women.
 
SurFutbol said:
That happens far more frequently, so why do you and your friends keep fixating only on trans children? Also, every day there are hundreds of soccer games being played in which a 13 year old girl is playing varsity against 17 and 18 year olds. Why aren't you focused on that? And why is it ok for a 13 year old girl to play against an entire team of 18 year olds, but you lose your mind if a 13 year old plays against the alleged functional equivalent of one 18 year old?

So are you saying that you support an outright ban on HS juniors playing JV regardless of the sport or context, or do you think that CIF and schools should look at multiple factors to determine what is appropriate, such as what sport is at issue and whether it can be done safely, whether the school's main goal is development or winning JV games, the extent to which the player is likely to have a negative impact on the "sanctity" of JV sports, whether any of the kids even care, etc.? You know, like what ECNL, CIF, the NCAA and others already do?
Click to expand...

Because the topic of this thread is trans kids.

I don't think you care for an answer to your questions lol
 
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