Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
yep, I’m the horrible person here, lovely gaslighting. If you’re willing to say you’re absolutely not trans phobic and have no issues with trans kids living a normal life, I’ll apologize.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
- Start date
yep, I’m the horrible person here, lovely gaslighting. If you’re willing to say you’re absolutely not trans phobic and have no issues with trans kids living a normal life, I’ll apologize.
You have problems dad. The other dad is trying to help you and you just don't get it.
I have no phobias towards any human. I walk a straight line and you think it's ok for a grown man with hair all over his body, can just say the magic words, "I am women" and can now compete and beat on the girls, use girls only bathrooms, lockers and take showers with them. You need help daddy!
No apology needed. Let’s just be polite.
Bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, and dorm rooms are not as simple as just listening to each person’s stated identity. The other people who use that facility have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
For bathrooms, creation of single stall gender neutral bathrooms is a better solution if you can afford to create the space. It also helps out anyone whose clothes got bloody because their period comes at the wrong time.
For dorm rooms, you would need the approval of the other roommate. That’s not something you can just force on someone.
So, it depends a little on what you mean by living a normal life. If someone changes before games in a unisex bathroom, does that count as living a normal life? To me, it shows a basic understanding of the situation and the privacy needs of your teammates. But still normal.
Chalklines
GOLD
Its California. Give it time. Sure some how and some way we will all see a Transgender soccer league soon enough and maybe the transgender Olympics by 2040.
Soccer has yellow card when doing naughty and a red when the naughty goes to dirty. I hear in some places their coming out with a White card. You get a White card when your nice and kind to the other team and the teams players. Help them up or just be nice. It helps with breaking the tie and will replace the PKs to decide the victor. It will be a social point scoring system from the pitch. Yellow Card=-5 social points. Red Card=-25 social points. White Card=+10 social points. The more + points=Winner of the match. No more dumb ties.
WATCH: Female College Swimmers Emotionally Speak Out Against Radical Transgenderism in Sports - DC Enquirer
On Wednesday, Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) hosted female athletes to discuss their experiences facing off with transgender individuals in their
dcenquirer.com
Don't ever tell me size does not matter. This is insane that we are having a freaking discussion about this but here we are in 2023.
“I feel like it’s really only happened in the past couple weeks where I’m— get emotional talking about the locker room scene because it is just so wild that you can turn around and see a 6’4 biological man pull his pants down watching you undress, and no one is willing to stick up for you?” she explained. “I’ve done a good job of not getting emotional, but I see what all is on the line. … I am fortunate, or hopeful, one day that I’ll be able to have little daughters, and I do not ever want to have to imagine them in a situation where they’re faced with that.”
GLangevinito
SILVER
Politically I am a shade right of Bernie Sanders and yet no matter how many names you call me you will never convince me that we should allow biological males to compete (at a non-rec level) with biological females in sport. I don't care if it's 1 or 1,000,000 kids.
I'm also opposed to an 18 year old who identifies as 10 to compete on the U11 team. Call me ageist, I suppose.
I'm also opposed to an 18 year old who identifies as 10 to compete on the U11 team. Call me ageist, I suppose.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
According to Google, this is Title IX as it was applied to sports.
---
Title IX has helped focus attention on meeting the needs of women interested in athletics and helped education officials to recognize their responsibilities regarding the provision of equal athletic opportunity.
---
Women weren't - and still aren't - banned from playing men's sports. Why wasn't that seen as "equal athletic opportunity"? The answer was obvious to all at the time - but fewer appear to understand it now. If you were born biologically female, you were not underrepresented on sports teams that received college scholarships (and also from special consideration for admittance if sports scholarships were not allowed, such as the Ivy League schools) - you were almost non-existent. Simple biology explained the difference.
What has Title IX accomplished?
--- https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2...impacts-womens-equality-in-college-athletics/
Title IX banned sex discrimination — but disparities still exist between men's and women's sports at the collegiate level.
A U.S. Department of Education report from 2019 found that 87% of NCAA schools "offered disproportionately higher rates of athletic opportunities to male athletes compared to their enrollment."
Pepperdine University's student-run news organization reports that female students make up 53% of the student body at Division I colleges — yet Division I athletic departments devote only 36% of their budgets to women's sports. That adds up to an extra $133 million each year for men's sports compared with women's sports at the Division I level alone.
---
Now if you are born biologically female, you are still significantly less likely to get money for sports - but it's worlds better than it was. One thing that hasn't changed, though, is that biological women are still not playing at the college or professional level in men's sports. That's because it's (still) an athletic advantage in these sports to be born biologically male. Let's not forget why we have separated girls' and boys' sports in the first place.
Regarding transitioning with HRT, etc. - that is well beyond my expertise. I'll leave that up to the governing bodies to determine whether it is an advantage and under what conditions to allow it. Here's another article with a somewhat different take from the article posted by @dk_b. I include part of it, but the entire article is a good read.
--- https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/29/us/lia-thomas-women-sports.html
Michael J. Joyner, a doctor at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., studies the physiology of male and female athletes. He sees in competitive swimming a petri dish. It is a century old, and the sexes follow similar practice and nutrition regimens.
Since prepubescent girls grow faster than boys, they have a competitive advantage early on. Puberty washes away that advantage. “You see the divergence immediately as the testosterone surges into the boys,” Dr. Joyner said. “There are dramatic differences in performances.”
The records for elite adult male swimmers are on average 10 percent to 12 percent faster than the records of elite female swimmers, an advantage that has held for decades.
Little mystery attends to this. Beginning in the womb, men are bathed in testosterone and puberty accelerates that. Men on average have broader shoulders, bigger hands and longer torsos, and greater lung and heart capacity. Muscles are denser.
“There are social aspects to sport, but physiology and biology underpin it,” Dr. Joyner noted. “Testosterone is the 800-pound gorilla.”
When a male athlete transitions to female, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, which governs college sports, requires a year of hormone-suppressing therapy to bring down testosterone levels. The N.C.A.A. put this in place to diminish the inherent biological advantage held by those born male.
Ms. Thomas followed this regimen.
But peer reviewed studies show that even after testosterone suppression, top trans women retain a substantial edge when racing against top biological women.
---
---
Title IX has helped focus attention on meeting the needs of women interested in athletics and helped education officials to recognize their responsibilities regarding the provision of equal athletic opportunity.
---
Women weren't - and still aren't - banned from playing men's sports. Why wasn't that seen as "equal athletic opportunity"? The answer was obvious to all at the time - but fewer appear to understand it now. If you were born biologically female, you were not underrepresented on sports teams that received college scholarships (and also from special consideration for admittance if sports scholarships were not allowed, such as the Ivy League schools) - you were almost non-existent. Simple biology explained the difference.
What has Title IX accomplished?
--- https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2...impacts-womens-equality-in-college-athletics/
Title IX banned sex discrimination — but disparities still exist between men's and women's sports at the collegiate level.
A U.S. Department of Education report from 2019 found that 87% of NCAA schools "offered disproportionately higher rates of athletic opportunities to male athletes compared to their enrollment."
Pepperdine University's student-run news organization reports that female students make up 53% of the student body at Division I colleges — yet Division I athletic departments devote only 36% of their budgets to women's sports. That adds up to an extra $133 million each year for men's sports compared with women's sports at the Division I level alone.
---
Now if you are born biologically female, you are still significantly less likely to get money for sports - but it's worlds better than it was. One thing that hasn't changed, though, is that biological women are still not playing at the college or professional level in men's sports. That's because it's (still) an athletic advantage in these sports to be born biologically male. Let's not forget why we have separated girls' and boys' sports in the first place.
Regarding transitioning with HRT, etc. - that is well beyond my expertise. I'll leave that up to the governing bodies to determine whether it is an advantage and under what conditions to allow it. Here's another article with a somewhat different take from the article posted by @dk_b. I include part of it, but the entire article is a good read.
--- https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/29/us/lia-thomas-women-sports.html
Michael J. Joyner, a doctor at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., studies the physiology of male and female athletes. He sees in competitive swimming a petri dish. It is a century old, and the sexes follow similar practice and nutrition regimens.
Since prepubescent girls grow faster than boys, they have a competitive advantage early on. Puberty washes away that advantage. “You see the divergence immediately as the testosterone surges into the boys,” Dr. Joyner said. “There are dramatic differences in performances.”
The records for elite adult male swimmers are on average 10 percent to 12 percent faster than the records of elite female swimmers, an advantage that has held for decades.
Little mystery attends to this. Beginning in the womb, men are bathed in testosterone and puberty accelerates that. Men on average have broader shoulders, bigger hands and longer torsos, and greater lung and heart capacity. Muscles are denser.
“There are social aspects to sport, but physiology and biology underpin it,” Dr. Joyner noted. “Testosterone is the 800-pound gorilla.”
When a male athlete transitions to female, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, which governs college sports, requires a year of hormone-suppressing therapy to bring down testosterone levels. The N.C.A.A. put this in place to diminish the inherent biological advantage held by those born male.
Ms. Thomas followed this regimen.
But peer reviewed studies show that even after testosterone suppression, top trans women retain a substantial edge when racing against top biological women.
---
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Whenever I see someone engaging EOTL and then pointing out that he should stop calling them names, I am reminded of the proverb of the Scorpion and the Frog. Specifically, I see the version as told by Forest Whitaker in his fantastic portrayal of Jody in The Crying Game. Great movie and great performance by Whitaker.
There’s no question at this point that the bell curve distribution of mtf trans retain an edge. That’s not the only relevant question however when analyzing what I call “it matters” sports. “It matters” as I’ve stated is sports programs that have a doping protocol in place to check for cheaters. You have to ask: how substantial of an edge relative to the bell curve of cis women, how does the edge impact the particular sport, what’s the decline in performance relative to the bell curve of cis men, how does that decline impact the particular sport, is there anything we can do to the protocols to modify things to bring it more into line. These are scientific questions. The answer may be different for different sports impacting individual sports much more severely than team. If the answer is there’s no good solution (I.e. the edge is too substantial relative to female cis sports but the decline is too severe relative to male cis sports and there is nothing we can do to adjust the protocols while at the same time not interfering with the transition) then separate leagues with scholarships taken from cis male and female programs would seem to be the answer.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
ahhh, your legacy continues -lack of reading comprehension. Your ability to dance to the music in your head is delightful to observe
Tran-female teen sexual assault on bio females has happened and will continue to happen. Hopefully it never happens to your daughter. Check out Oklahoma and VA..it happens. Never mind trans women sexually assaulting teens in bathroom...it happens. How many times does it need to happen for you to consider it statistically important? Victim's rights not a thing for you? Where did i mock gender affirming surgery. I mocked what appears to be your lack of understanding of it's utilization beyond ideological parameters. Please educate me on gender affirming surgery and how/when it should be done as a treatment. do tell.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
Ahh, the ol smorgasborg approach to defending your position. Kinda like throwing the kitchen sink at a cold - garlic, vitamin c, hot toddy, sauna treatment,etc.
It's only in that sweet little head of yours that transgirls are being treated with anything less than dignity. What you can't wrap your head around is that transgender in sports means something different pre/post puberty - you live in your little ideological la la land, mansplaining things by weaving in buzz words then attacking daughters. Your anger can be cute at times but it's clear that you don't really respect women and use trans prepubescent teens as a platform of some sort. Could be labeled as misogyny, especially if violence towards young girls doesn't register with you.
By the way, my daughter has never won a trophy, lost plenty, played with boys until U14 (they used to do that more often back in the day), and has done well for herself on her current college team.
The part you’re missing is the shape of the bell curve. Anywhere on the tail, matter what your cutoff is, there are a hell of a lot more people just below the cutoff than just above the cutoff.
In other words, granting an unfair advantage will have a much larger impact than imposing an unfair disadvantage. It just affects a lot more people.
Until you get your trans league up and running, the best plan is to allow people to play up in gender, but not down. Same as age.
thirteenknots
SILVER ELITE
CHEATING :
cheating (present participle)
- act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination:
- deceive or trick:
"he had cheated her out of everything she had"
- deceive or trick:
Every female that is CHEATED out of a Scholarship/Playing Time/Safety
in a Locker Room Etc... due to BIOLOGICAL " Males " playing in female
sports should sue the pants off of ALL involved to start with....!!!
This is where LAWFARE will put a Full Stop to this Crap.
No, it's that you are making an incorrect data assumption. I'm using 4 bell curves....MTF altered, MTF unaltered (which is distinct and different, given the experience, from just cis m), cis M, cis F. There are 4 distinct data sets all with distinct distributions. It's not the snakes head that matters, but the bump. All the distribution shifts so you have to compare head to head, bump to bump and tail to tail. They all move relative to the two fixed points. Your error is that you are just treating it as a subset of another distribution, which assumes therefore only high performers will shift. That is a flawed, unwarranted and biased assumption.
Cheating is violating the rules. Pure stop. For kiddie soccer, the leagues, from MLS Next down to AYSO, have recognized they welcome transgendered athletes. For the NCAA, there are protocols you can argue should be more or less restrictive.
As to lawfare, that's a laugh. Where we are likely headed is a split system with red and blue states. For those who haven't thought through, it probably means a divided league on the collegiate level since there won't be like to like, or the feds are going to lower the hammer (and given the track record of the fed admin state, I doubt very much you'll like where that hammer falls).
thirteenknots
SILVER ELITE
It's Cheating.
You know it, yet accept an alternative reality.
When you embrace Cheating as you have just
displayed, it's very easy to be fooled by other
" Alternative " realities.
Lawfare is REAL, don't scoff at what slimy Lawyers
can do to the TRUTH.
This is the problem when both sides abandon science and reason. There will be a blue reality and there will be a red reality and neither will have much realism in it, that is until the feds level the hammer. And then dad4 will with the same cheer he gave them during Covid be shedding tears and denouncing them.
thirteenknots
SILVER ELITE
I have not abandoned Science/Reason.
You have.
♂= Male
♀= Female
There are only two genders.
Males belong in Male sports, not
Female sports. Otherwise, it's
CHEATING.