Vaccine

[espola]

Gottlieb has gone full insane. He wants to semi permanently reorganize life around COVID prevention. That's basically what's at stake here and will be decided decisively in the 2022 elections: life back to normal or reorganize life permanently. The thing most likely to end the debate in the United States is either a D victory in 2022 (which includes a minimal losses scenario) or the massive and total destruction of the D party, one way or another. But that's what's on the table now: non stop COVID for years, or get back to normal....there's very little in between.

'We've reached limits of sensible policy' to fight COVID-19. Now, we need cultural change.

While conservatives may fight vaccine mandates and other changes to deal with the public health reality, there's no getting around the death toll.

www.usatoday.com

We had effective polio vaccines available in this country starting about 1955. Polio was not eliminated in this country (based on no new reported cases) until about 1980. We still require polio vaccinations for children and for travelers in and out of certain countries because there still exists a significant pool of diseased individuals there.

 

[dad4]

4 shots in under 1 year means the vaccines are a failure at preventing disease. I am grumpy because they are a failure yet are still trying to force it on people. So screw you and your mandates.

4 shots in one year is proof of failure? Unless you ignored the guidelines, your family already had 4 shots in one year for PCV13.

They also had 3 shots in one year for diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, hepatitus B, HiB, and rotavirus.

To look at childhood vaccinations, 3-4 shots is normal. The surprise would have been if it were only two.

 

[Grace T.]

We had effective polio vaccines available in this country starting about 1955. Polio was not eliminated in this country (based on no new reported cases) until about 1980. We still require polio vaccinations for children and for travelers in and out of certain countries because there still exists a significant pool of diseased individuals there.

All true, but if you need at least 4 covid shots in < 1 year (some pharma people are suggesting five at least, maybe more...the 3 original, the new omicron, the omicron booster) that's not what the polio shot did, and that's only a small part of what Gottlieb is suggesting.

 

[espola]

Tell me what does "is more the" mean?

Again, your routine is weak when you drift away from the comedy. Now make me laugh.

Since you refuse to provide a definition, I am trying to work out the meaning by language analysis. I infer that dad4 is more like a pure covidian than I am -- is that a correct guess? Who is the most covidian-like poster here?

Grammarly wants to know if it should add "covidian" to its dictionary.

 

[Brav520]

What's not normal in the whole history of this country is the existence of an organized political resistance to common sense health measures. A side-effect of that is that people are effectively volunteering to be the incubators of the new variants.

this is easy

the happy are never like by the unhappy ( you)

 

[espola]

Are we back to your favorite topic....you? No thanks.

That's an assertion without any backup data.

 

[Grace T.]

That's an assertion without any backup data.

Hahahahahah! Now that's what I'm talking about. Comedy. Good one from the guy who has his own neighborhood.

 

[crush]

All true, but if you need at least 4 covid shots in < 1 year (some pharma people are suggesting five at least, maybe more...the 3 original, the new omicron, the omicron booster) that's not what the polio shot did, and that's only a small part of what Gottlieb is suggesting.

Ya, like my mom took me to get the Polio shot and then the Doc told her that we need a few more because Polio has a new brother named Mario and he's evil. Get back to my office for second jab. These guys are idiots!!!

 

[Grace T.]

4 shots in one year is proof of failure? Unless you ignored the guidelines, your family already had 4 shots in one year for PCV13.

They also had 3 shots in one year for diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, hepatitus B, HiB, and rotavirus.

To look at childhood vaccinations, 3-4 shots is normal. The surprise would have been if it were only two.

Misleading at best.

1. the PCV dose is not all in 1 year
2. this is not that and you know it. The reason why they are talking more than 3 now is because: a) there's preliminary data the boosters are waning (remember the entire rationale behind the Gottlieb theory and boosters is that 1 booster would confer long lasting immunity because they f'ed it up and did 2 shots two spaced together....that's rapidly falling by the way side), and b) the virus mutates away from the original formulation which means if we wanted to stop transmission we might need several more shots repeatedly over years. Because, unlike Gottlieb and his original booster theory, you can't give assurances now that we won't need a new coronavirus shot ever year.
3. if that's the case....fine....but we don't mandate the flu shot. We shouldn't mandate the coronavirus shot. It's very different than any of the above experiences
4. rotavirus isn't usually a shot.

 

[what-happened]

4 shots in one year is proof of failure? Unless you ignored the guidelines, your family already had 4 shots in one year for PCV13.

They also had 3 shots in one year for diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, hepatitus B, HiB, and rotavirus.

To look at childhood vaccinations, 3-4 shots is normal. The surprise would have been if it were only two.

A better way to frame this: Current vaccines are the best we have, and they aren't very good. They just aren't. Not their fault, tough going when you are trying to decipher a novel virus. There are certain things we know that are fact but we've really thrown those out the door in the face of politcis.

It's been great for CEO and company financials and not so great for people who've developed this immense mistruct of the government. I suppose big pharma could be given the benefit of the doubt that they are working as hard as they can to come up with a better way. The recent FDA approvals are a step in the right direction. It's funny though how these treatments are not given the same political slant as the vaccines themselves. They are just as new/experimental as the vaccines. Granted, there is less of a negative safety profile associated with MABs.

 

[what-happened]

Misleading at best.

1. the PCV dose is not all in 1 year
2. this is not that and you know it. The reason why they are talking more than 3 now is because: a) there's preliminary data the boosters are waning (remember the entire rationale behind the Gottlieb theory and boosters is that 1 booster would confer long lasting immunity because they f'ed it up and did 2 shots two spaced together....that's rapidly falling by the way side), and b) the virus mutates away from the original formulation which means if we wanted to stop transmission we might need several more shots repeatedly over years. Because, unlike Gottlieb and his original booster theory, you can't give assurances now that we won't need a new coronavirus shot ever year.
3. if that's the case....fine....but we don't mandate the flu shot. We shouldn't mandate the coronavirus shot. It's very different than any of the above experiences
4. rotavirus isn't usually a shot.

Plenty wrong with the orginal post but just wasn't worth the effort. Hard to compare apples to coconuts..

 

[Grace T.]

A better way to frame this: Current vaccines are the best we have, and they aren't very good. They just aren't. Not their fault, tough going when you are trying to decipher a novel virus. There are certain things we know that are fact but we've really thrown those out the door in the face of politcis.

It's been great for CEO and company financials and not so great for people who've developed this immense mistruct of the government. I suppose big pharma could be given the benefit of the doubt that they are working as hard as they can to come up with a better way. The recent FDA approvals are a step in the right direction. It's funny though how these treatments are not given the same political slant as the vaccines themselves. They are just as new/experimental as the vaccines. Granted, there is less of a negative safety profile associated with MABs.

yes but that's why they shouldn't be mandated then....let people decide....it's why I've moved from support of state/employer/school mandates to opposed to them (at least until they can come up with one that actually stops transmission for good then I'll reevaluate the cost/benefit based on where we are).

 

[crush]

Dr. F was so cool about October 31st and never said anything like what he just said about our time with Christ. He wants families fighting and having division.

I want to know if any of you Avatars are going to put this bullshit in place over the Holidays? Espola, Husler, Dad4 and Golden Gate count for only one vote. Crush is 100% a no and I will not ask for proof of vaccination.

Fauci says families should 'ask,' 'maybe require' COVID vaccine for holiday guests before indoor celebrations
The COVID-19 variant omicron has been detected in 19 states

"When you get vaccinated, and you have a vaccinated group, and you are in an indoor setting, you can enjoy, as we have traditionally over the years, dinners and gatherings within the home with people who are vaccinated," Fauci explained.

"And that's the reason why people should, if they invite people over their home, essentially ask and maybe require that people show evidence that they are vaccinated, or give their honest and good faith word that they have been vaccinated," he continued. ((Just lie))

Fauci continued by citing data indicating the vaccinated are at a much less risk of hospitalization or death in the event they do contract a breakthrough case of COVID.

"So, vaccinated puts you in a much different position than the extreme vulnerability of people who are not vaccinated, because all you have to do is look at the data and look at those areas of the country, those states, those communities that are under-vaccinated," Fauci said.

 

[crush]

yes but that's why they shouldn't be mandated then....let people decide....it's why I've moved from support of state/employer/school mandates to opposed to them (at least until they can come up with one that actually stops transmission for good then I'll reevaluate the cost/benefit based on where we are).

Thank you Grace T. I have many like you today who have seen the truth now. Thank you. My life depends on it. I have one pal who will not repent and he's all in with the dark because he hates t so much. Blinded by his hate for t is not an excuse to cheat, lie and steal and them smash, punch and grab all because you want to be immoral.

 

[dad4]

Misleading at best.

1. the PCV dose is not all in 1 year
2. this is not that and you know it. The reason why they are talking more than 3 now is because: a) there's preliminary data the boosters are waning (remember the entire rationale behind the Gottlieb theory and boosters is that 1 booster would confer long lasting immunity because they f'ed it up and did 2 shots two spaced together....that's rapidly falling by the way side), and b) the virus mutates away from the original formulation which means if we wanted to stop transmission we might need several more shots repeatedly over years. Because, unlike Gottlieb and his original booster theory, you can't give assurances now that we won't need a new coronavirus shot ever year.
3. if that's the case....fine....but we don't mandate the flu shot. We shouldn't mandate the coronavirus shot. It's very different than any of the above experiences
4. rotavirus isn't usually a shot.

Why do you think DTaP has five shots? Those boosters fade, too. And, if 20% of the country refused to get their measles shots, you’d see new measles variants all the time, too.

I’m used to little kids whining about having to go in for their booster shots. It’s disgraceful that so many adults are doing the same.

 

[crush]

I’m used to little kids whining about having to go in for their booster shots.

Are you really a human? You must be a doctor or a nurse? Not really a math teacher like Epstein? Crossing lines today I see. Good, because the more bullshit you and Husler and espola spew, the quicker this will be over.

 

[Grace T.]

Why do you think DTaP has five shots? Those boosters fade, too. And, if 20% of the country refused to get their measles shots, you’d see new measles variants all the time, too.

I’m used to little kids whining about having to go in for their booster shots. It’s disgraceful that so many adults are doing the same.

Again, misleading. 1) they aren't all in1 year, 2) they aren't due to a constantly mutating virus, 3) there are some regions of the world where we have a more than 20% nonvaccination rate for measles....where are the variants?, 4) we don't make adults get them (though they should probably get some). Face facts....this is right now at best the flu shot. It's a flu shot with a lot of nasty side effects that are unpleasant and some outright dangerous. If it's the flu shot, great offer it up, but don't mandate it.

I'm used to people being scared of things, including getting ill. It's disgraceful that so many adults are trying to put responsibility for their own fears on others, particularly little kids.

and this guy totally has your number:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468966770258046977

 

[dad4]

A better way to frame this: Current vaccines are the best we have, and they aren't very good. They just aren't. Not their fault, tough going when you are trying to decipher a novel virus. There are certain things we know that are fact but we've really thrown those out the door in the face of politcis.

It's been great for CEO and company financials and not so great for people who've developed this immense mistruct of the government. I suppose big pharma could be given the benefit of the doubt that they are working as hard as they can to come up with a better way. The recent FDA approvals are a step in the right direction. It's funny though how these treatments are not given the same political slant as the vaccines themselves. They are just as new/experimental as the vaccines. Granted, there is less of a negative safety profile associated with MABs.

I’m not sure what you mean by “not very good”.

By any measure, they’ve already saved millions of lives. Can you imagine how many more would have died in the Delta surge if we’d had no vaccine for those over 60?

Will they have a better vaccine sometime in the future? Probably. But that’s different from saying the current one is bad.

 

[dad4]

Again, misleading. 1) they aren't all in1 year, 2) they aren't due to a constantly mutating virus, 3) there are some regions of the world where we have a more than 20% nonvaccination rate for measles....where are the variants?, 4) we don't make adults get them (though they should probably get some). Face facts....this is right now at best the flu shot. It's a flu shot with a lot of nasty side effects that are unpleasant and some outright dangerous. If it's the flu shot, great offer it up, but don't mandate it.

I'm used to people being scared of things, including getting ill. It's disgraceful that so many adults are trying to put responsibility for their own fears on others, particularly little kids.

and this guy totally has your number:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468966770258046977

What makes you think the other viral and bacterial diseases don’t mutate and evolve? it’s just slower when you have fewer people harboring the disease.

Worldwide measles cases are counted in the tens of thousands. If we had had 2 billion measles cases last year, I’m sure you’d see some variants.

 

[espola]

A better way to frame this: Current vaccines are the best we have, and they aren't very good. They just aren't. Not their fault, tough going when you are trying to decipher a novel virus. There are certain things we know that are fact but we've really thrown those out the door in the face of politcis.

It's been great for CEO and company financials and not so great for people who've developed this immense mistruct of the government. I suppose big pharma could be given the benefit of the doubt that they are working as hard as they can to come up with a better way. The recent FDA approvals are a step in the right direction. It's funny though how these treatments are not given the same political slant as the vaccines themselves. They are just as new/experimental as the vaccines. Granted, there is less of a negative safety profile associated with MABs.

Back in the days when the best vaccines were produced from a melange of attenuated or killed viruses, the antibodies developed in the body came after exposure to a wide range of phenotypes, thus giving a wider foundation to the immunity. I fear that the current genetic engineering vaccines are too much exactly the same, thus narrowing the effectiveness against new strains that don't depend on the mechanism attacked by the vaccine and resulting antibodies. Some scientific commentators have suggested that that is how omicron evades the vaccine. If a new vaccine is developed specifically to attack omicron, that is admitting to some degree that it is essentially a new disease.

 

[Grace T.]

I’m not sure what you mean by “not very good”.

By any measure, they’ve already saved millions of lives. Can you imagine how many more would have died in the Delta surge if we’d had no vaccine for those over 60?

Will they have a better vaccine sometime in the future? Probably. But that’s different from saying the current one is bad.

"not very good" is not "poor". But come on!....even Joe Biden thought it would mean the pandemic would be over by July 4. The expectation was that the vaccines would prevent against death (they don't....they reduce it but for the very old or immunocompromised they are still vulnerable), severe illness (they don't...it stops hospitalization but vaccinated individuals are still falling ill bad enough to require m antibodies), and transmission (for which they've been a failure, PARTICULARLY in light of the omicron. The vaccines have not lived up to the promised expectations. That is very very clear and misleading for you to claim otherwise.

There are two rationales for vaccination. 1. To protect the idiots from themselves. But if you believe in bodily autonomy and that people have the right to make even more important decisions like voting or having children, then why do you force this on them. 2. To protect the population and hospitals from spread of the disease....and while the vaccines clearly help with this, it's not enough particularly with the omicron and particularly if repeated shots are required, to mandate it.