Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
Whatever. Any comments on me and my life now go into the Grace/Hound ad hominem cheap shot bucket.
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Neither Hound nor I were engaging in ads. We weren't trying to rebut any argument. We were expressing surprise at the extremism you expressed.

As for cheap shots, those were very mild as far as they come and well within the bounds of legitimate criticism: you have an authoritarian streak, you singled out 2 year olds. Looks like some of the criticism is hitting a little close to home.
 
dad4 said:
The other view is that the primary impact of mandates is through cultural shift. It gradually became impolite to not wear a mask. Conversely, when you repeal the mandate, the opposite behavioral change takes time, too.

A change with a 4 month phase in and 4 month phase out is harder to capture in statistics. So the data for mandates will be weaker than the data for masks- whether or not mandates ultimately work.
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Definitely true of places like Los Angeles or Texas. Much less true of Spain which has a hard medical mask mandate enforced by police.
 
Grace T. said:
a. Flu is in droplets....COVID is partially aerosolized we know now. Masks probably do a better job of stopping the flu as a result than COVID.
b. For the same reason distancing helps. The distances for droplet transmission are smaller than aerosolized
c. The biggest change in culture has been if you feel sick stay home. In the past I've caught flu from colleagues coming into work sick because of presenteeism (e.g. it's the flu...no big deal), kids being dropped off at school sick because parents have to work, on an airline flight from someone sick of the flu sitting right next to me
d. Most kids were out of school. Flu hits kids harder and the schools are a breeding ground for flu. Now, even if the kids are back in school their temp is being taken and they wear masks.

That said, given flu hits the young and elderly particularly hard, one thing I think we should keep is stay home (and keep your kids home) if you are sick....drop the masks, distancing, and mass testing. Maybe during a hard flu season introduce back in temp screenings at schools but that's really as far as I'd go. Viruses are part of our life. They are part of human history.
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Oh and e. The other thing we know now is that surface transmission of COVID is very minimal. I don't think that's true of flu, particularly in the schools.
 
Why are we even still arguing about masks? The current evidence strongly supports the fact that vaccines are more effective than masks (plus you don't have to worry about the proper use of vaccines like you do with masks). If you truly believe that your personal behavior puts the public at significant risk for Covid and you believe you have a personal obligation to protect the public, then get a vaccine (if you don't have any health issues that would you preclude you from doing so). Otherwise you should probably consider shutting the F up because you've lost any moral high ground to tell other people how live their lives in terms of Covid.

I couldn't care less whether you wear masks or get a vaccine, that's your choice. I'm perfectly capable of staying 6 feet away from you in public, or not, and being personally accountable for my own behavior. Peace.
 
Desert Hound said:
Sounds like good advice?

The problem is, they say they don't know if masks actually work.

So that recommendation is not based on actual studies/data.

They themselves say they don't know and say they (the scientific community) needs to do research in this area.
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What the hell is pre-symptomatic? Lol!! Can you say amplification. Fraudsters.
 
texanincali said:
Wasn’t meant to be a cheap shot. I am genuinely curious how someone who bangs the mask drum so loud doesn’t also bang the vaccine drum.
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For public policy, I am in favor of both.

Until this is over, we should have both mask mandates and vaccine passports.

So, those who are vaccinated should be allowed to have a drink at the local bar. Those who are not vaccinated should not be allowed.

One more of those "life isn't fair" moments.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
What the hell is pre-symptomatic? Lol!! Can you say amplification. Fraudsters.
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Well, it actually looks from a few studies that asymptomatics don't do a very good job of spreading it. That means the entire mask thing to stop asymptomatic spread is stupid. Really the real issue is: a) assholes who don't feel well and go out sick anyway, some for otherwise "good" reasons like losing your job or your income (and some not so good reasons like missing out on a vacation), and b) presymptomatics (which seem to be about 24 hours before the onset of symptoms). Presymptomatics aren't really 100% presymptomatic....by that time you are feeling a tingle in your throat or a congestion, or your smell has gone out.....the problem is: 1) people aren't very good about reading their own symptoms ("it's allergies!") and 2) they like to convince themselves they aren't really falling sick when really they are. I really wouldn't be surprised if viruses have evolved over the centuries to encourage this response in us.
 
Grace T. said:
Well, it actually looks from a few studies that asymptomatics don't do a very good job of spreading it. That means the entire mask thing to stop asymptomatic spread is stupid. Really the real issue is: a) assholes who don't feel well and go out sick anyway, some for otherwise "good" reasons like losing your job or your income (and some not so good reasons like missing out on a vacation), and b) presymptomatics (which seem to be about 24 hours before the onset of symptoms). Presymptomatics aren't really 100% presymptomatic....by that time you are feeling a tingle in your throat or a congestion, or your smell has gone out.....the problem is: 1) people aren't very good about reading their own symptoms ("it's allergies!") and 2) they like to convince themselves they aren't really falling sick when really they are. I really wouldn't be surprised if viruses have evolved over the centuries to encourage this response in us.
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What? I thought it was all about individual choice. If someone is feeling sick and chooses to go out to their local restaurant, that is their personal medical choice and you have no right to question their private medical decision. The fact that five other people got sick is irrelevant, because it’s all inevitable anyway. I mean, virus gonna virus, right? How dare you step on my freedom!
 
dad4 said:
What? I thought it was all about individual choice. If someone is feeling sick and chooses to go out to their local restaurant, that is their personal medical choice and you have no right to question their private medical decision. The fact that five other people got sick is irrelevant, because it’s all inevitable anyway. I mean, virus gonna virus, right? How dare you step on my freedom!
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One of your issues is you lack a distinction between government coercion (which is force) and good manners/individual responsibility. The solution to “people are jerks” is not always “well let’s force them not to be”. It’s why you have this closet authoritarian streak.
 
dad4 said:
One is a broad public health measure to reduce the spread of disease.

The other is an ad hominem cheap shot from two people who ran out of logical arguments.

If the local restaurant wants to know whether I am vaccinated, I am happy to follow their rules.
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No one has been "vaccinated". But you're not worried about the make up and function of the current shots. You're about case numbers driven by unprecedented PCR testing. Your arguments started out lacking logic when you ignored the history of infectious diseases and public policy. You socialist are not hard to spot. This is not a cheap shot. You should own it. Eugene Genovese, a socialist himself, said it best about you people:

Reflecting here on moral responsibility, I have referred to "we." For it has never occurred to me that the moral responsibility falls much less heavily on those of us on the American left than it fell on Comrade Stalin and those who replicated his feats in one country after another. And I am afraid that some of that moral responsibility falls on the "democratic socialists," "radical democrats," and other left wingers who endlessly denounced Stalinism but could usually be counted on to support— "critically," of course—the essentials of our political line on world and national affairs.
 
dad4 said:
For public policy, I am in favor of both.

Until this is over, we should have both mask mandates and vaccine passports.

So, those who are vaccinated should be allowed to have a drink at the local bar. Those who are not vaccinated should not be allowed.

One more of those "life isn't fair" moments.
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If life isn't fair, why do you advocate for making it more unfair by shutting down business, healthcare, disallowing the elderly and their children to say goodbye before they die, etc. Spare us your evil masquerading as wisdom.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
If life isn't fair, why do you advocate for making it more unfair by shutting down business, healthcare, disallowing the elderly and their children to say goodbye before they die, etc. Spare us your evil masquerading as wisdom.
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Life is unfair either way.

It can be unfair because hundreds of thousands of people catch a fatal disease.

It can be unfair because some people get to go out for dinner and some don't.

Of the two options, the vaccine passport looks like the lesser burden.

-Dr. Evil
 
dad4 said:
Grace- this is an example of attacking the person instead of the argument.
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Oh please.

You get on your high horse and tell people they just don't understand math and shouldn't bother discussing stuff with you because you know math and they don't.

So you do that frequently.

Then and this is a good one...you claim to be all about the math.

You FEEL it is irresponsible for a 2 yr old to be on a plane.

The data put out by the CDC shows kids are at zero risk. And we know they are not spreaders.

That is the data.

And when called on that you go silent...because apparently the way you FEEL is more relevant vs actual data.

You jump all over the place changing goalposts.

The one thing that doesn't change is your authoritarian streak for shutting down stuff you think shouldn't be open.
 
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