texanincali
SILVER ELITE
How exactly does your vaccination status being your own business differ from anyone’s else’s mask wearing status being their own business?
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
- Start date
How exactly does your vaccination status being your own business differ from anyone’s else’s mask wearing status being their own business?
Look for the CDC page on why they recommend masks. You'll find the 70%and 79% reduction numbers there.
45% and 54% are what to our get when you assume the 70 or 79 only applies half the time. (Because the other half of cases transmission is inside the home. )
One is a broad public health measure to reduce the spread of disease.
The other is an ad hominem cheap shot from two people who ran out of logical arguments.
If the local restaurant wants to know whether I am vaccinated, I am happy to follow their rules.
Desert Hound
DA
You keep clinging to that.
CDC studies over decades showed masks were ineffective vs influenza like viruses. Why suddenly masks will work now vs a similar type of virus?
In Feb of this year, the European version of the CDC said the following.
1) They point out that masks have never been shown to be effective in stopping the flu.
2) They say medical masks are associated with only a small to moderate affect of stopping covid. They then immediately make the caveat that there are still SIGNIFICANT uncertainties about about the size and effect.
This means they cannot really prove they (masks) make much of a difference.
3) Evidence of non medical mask protection is scarce and of very low uncertainty.
4) They point out that more studies are needed to determine if medical masks are actually effective.
In sum, they are saying they just don't know if or how effective masks are.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Agree. That’s why the nutters on lockdown show higher case counts than the non-locdown folks.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Link?
Bruddah IZ
DA
Show him where the safe zone is at.
Desert Hound
DA
And then you have this from the Canadian government explaining what masks do and dont.
Surgical and non medical masks stop droplets and spit.
They do not provide a tight seal around the face.
They don't effectively filter small particles (ie viruses).
What masks do (and to be fair it isn't in this chart) is that it A) virtue signals and B) creates a false sense of safety for those who wear them.
Surgical and non medical masks stop droplets and spit.
They do not provide a tight seal around the face.
They don't effectively filter small particles (ie viruses).
What masks do (and to be fair it isn't in this chart) is that it A) virtue signals and B) creates a false sense of safety for those who wear them.
Desert Hound
DA
This is the page he refers to.
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.
.
The NZ study Kicking posted recently blows a huge hole in this. Not only does it knock out one of the pillars in the CDC study (the airline part, which dad4 himself apparently admits now is not very safe), but it also seems to show that aerosolized transmission is sometimes possible under certain conditions, not just droplets. A bunch of the other studies including the Roosevelt study conflate distancing/caution with masking, which leaves basically the hairdresser, which is an ideal situation (short term exposures, face to head) for which masks can most likely readily help.
This is the page he refers to.
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.www.cdc.gov
The NZ study Kicking posted recently blows a huge hole in this. Not only does it knock out one of the pillars in the CDC study (the airline part, which dad4 himself apparently admits now is not very safe), but it also seems to show that aerosolized transmission is sometimes possible under certain conditions, not just droplets. A bunch of the other studies including the Roosevelt study conflate distancing/caution with masking, which leaves basically the hairdresser, which is an ideal situation (short term exposures, face to head) for which masks can most likely readily help.
Bruddah IZ
DA
If you really want to lower case numbers, you’ll want to fight biological warfare with respirators not mask.
You left out the part where ecdc recommends that you wear face masks while indoors in public spaces.
They also point out that a face mask is not a reason to be stupid about other things, such as distancing.
Ok. Wear a mask while indoors, and give other people some space. Sounds like good advice.
Link to the whole thing, February 2021 version:
Considerations for the use of face masks in the community in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant of concern
This document provides an update to and complements the ECDC technical report on “Using face masks in the community: first update - Effectiveness in reducing transmission of COVID-19” published on 15 February 2021.
And March 2021 version:
Video: Help slow the spread of COVID-19 - wear a face mask!
We have cross-checked all the latest research on the use of face masks during the pandemic.
The March version takes away the wiggle room and just says “wear your mask”.
They do not seem to be saying “maybe masks don’t work.”
Based on the experience of the last year or so -- masks work, but mask mandates don't.
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
I’m not saying your stance is wrong. Just hypocritical.
When you're the victim of supposed cheap shots all around (not to mention the company one seems to be keeping), perhaps it's time for a pensive person to go "hmmmmmm?".
Desert Hound
DA
I fully agree they recommend masks.
However before they recommend wearing masks they point out that they don't really know if masks work.
They are pretty clear that as of yet, more studies need to be done to determine if masks actually work.
You like the fact they they recommend masks. You conveniently ignore the fact that they say they don't know IF masks work.
There is no March version of the report. They just say wear a mask and link you to what I posted above.
Desert Hound
DA
Sounds like good advice?
The problem is, they say they don't know if masks actually work.
So that recommendation is not based on actual studies/data.
They themselves say they don't know and say they (the scientific community) needs to do research in this area.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
No dog in this fight but I have to wonder- where is all the flu? Is it a result of masks and distancing, people not getting tested for fear of getting covid, or?? Thoughts?
The other view is that the primary impact of mandates is through cultural shift. It gradually became impolite to not wear a mask. Conversely, when you repeal the mandate, the opposite behavioral change takes time, too.
A change with a 4 month phase in and 4 month phase out is harder to capture in statistics. So the data for mandates will be weaker than the data for masks- whether or not mandates ultimately work.
Whatever. Any comments on me and my life now go into the Grace/Hound ad hominem cheap shot bucket.
a. Flu is in droplets....COVID is partially aerosolized we know now. Masks probably do a better job of stopping the flu as a result than COVID.
b. For the same reason distancing helps. The distances for droplet transmission are smaller than aerosolized
c. The biggest change in culture has been if you feel sick stay home. In the past I've caught flu from colleagues coming into work sick because of presenteeism (e.g. it's the flu...no big deal), kids being dropped off at school sick because parents have to work, on an airline flight from someone sick of the flu sitting right next to me
d. Most kids were out of school. Flu hits kids harder and the schools are a breeding ground for flu. Now, even if the kids are back in school their temp is being taken and they wear masks.
That said, given flu hits the young and elderly particularly hard, one thing I think we should keep is stay home (and keep your kids home) if you are sick....drop the masks, distancing, and mass testing. Maybe during a hard flu season introduce back in temp screenings at schools but that's really as far as I'd go. Viruses are part of our life. They are part of human history.