SoCal Soccer Attitude Change

ESPNANALYST said:
What do the refs think of the coaches who go up to them before games and "warn" them about the other team. I have had the pleasure of witnessing this now twice in a week and always wonder what a good ref is actually thinking?
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I'm not a fan of it. It makes no difference to me but it is annoying. I'm not going to approach the game any different.
 
ESPNANALYST said:
Thanks for this post.
I am confused about this though- "if one team isn't comfortable with the level of physicality"....uh the game is the game. A foul is a foul? Isn't that what you are trying to preach?
As much as I enjoy the theatrics, flops, girls crying then magically being healed on a direct kick, it's getting old.
Just trying to learn because I am definetly seeing a certain team likes to play a certain way and when the game isn't played the way they enjoy it they enlist a bevy of alternative tactics.
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A foul is a foul, but in soccer, it's the only sport where officials do not have to stop the game if the foul either makes no difference (trifling) or the team against which the foul was committed, gains an advantage by letting the game flow. We want the game to flow, not a bunch of whistles and free kicks. That being said, if fouls need to be called, we can and will call as many as needed to try to limit more, and can issue cards if need be. Yes, the diving and faking injury is a tool players use, and are taught, unfortunately, that we need to attempt to see through. But just because a player embellishes, doesn't mean they weren't fouled. It takes experience and lots a games to learn how to not let it affect you. Which gets back to the original point of this thread. Let the youth CR do his/ her job without trying to sway their judgement until such time as they gain more experience do they can become good at readin and reacting or not reacting to the intricacies of the higher age/level games
 
baldref said:
I'm not a fan of it. It makes no difference to me but it is annoying. I'm not going to approach the game any different.
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Thanks for this. To me I felt like it was disrespectful. If we truly apply the laws then a ref wouldn't need to know things like that. I just always find it a little out of bounds
 
We also hear a lot of "I hate the way Team C plays" etc etc. I laugh when people say those things because it shows they don't watch college soccer. Not everyone is going to play your "style".
 
ESPNANALYST said:
What do the refs think of the coaches who go up to them before games and "warn" them about the other team. I have had the pleasure of witnessing this now twice in a week and always wonder what a good ref is actually thinking?
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Working refs part of every sport even the ultimate sport of presidential debates.
 
ESPNANALYST said:
Agree just pointing out if you feel the need to do that for a u11-u16 soccer game there is a lot more wrong with youth sports than refs.
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Devils advocate; coaches responsibility to get every advantage for their team. Just like not paying taxes, it's smart. Yes youth sports may be the only endeavor where lay people try to tell officials and coaches how to do their job. Imagine telling your doctor where to make the incision. But from your tone I can tell you already understand all this.
 
baldref said:
A foul is a foul, but in soccer, it's the only sport where officials do not have to stop the game if the foul either makes no difference (trifling) or the team against which the foul was committed, gains an advantage by letting the game flow. We want the game to flow, not a bunch of whistles and free kicks.
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This is a big thing for new soccer parents to understand. Definitely it is partly cultural for Americans. All but a very few addicted soccer fans ever watched professional soccer on TV. But we all have tons of experience watching American sports, where foul calls are much different. Football refs will often avoid calling holding penalties if the hold happened away from the action and did not influence the play, but for the most part, because of the way the game is played, any foul is an big advantage for the cheat (in football, the play continues and you can even decline the penalty), so they have to call what they see. This was hard to grasp at first when I started watching my kid play. Once I understood the above, some of the no calls made a whole lot more sense. Of course now that I get it, it just means I can scream "HEY REF! PLAY THE ADVANTAGE!" when they do call a foul they shouldn't have. Poor refs. LOL
 
Mystery Train said:
This is a big thing for new soccer parents to understand. Definitely it is partly cultural for Americans. All but a very few addicted soccer fans ever watched professional soccer on TV. But we all have tons of experience watching American sports, where foul calls are much different. Football refs will often avoid calling holding penalties if the hold happened away from the action and did not influence the play, but for the most part, because of the way the game is played, any foul is an big advantage for the cheat (in football, the play continues and you can even decline the penalty), so they have to call what they see. This was hard to grasp at first when I started watching my kid play. Once I understood the above, some of the no calls made a whole lot more sense. Of course now that I get it, it just means I can scream "HEY REF! PLAY THE ADVANTAGE!" when they do call a foul they shouldn't have. Poor refs. LOL
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it's definitely something that comes with experience to know when or when not to allow advantage. i was doing the ecnl playoffs last july i think it was, and one of the great things about being allowed to referee those types of games is that you get to work with many very high level and very knowledgeable and proficient referees. i had a center in a girls 17 game, and on one line i had a national referee, and on the other a very experienced state referee and assessor. you always ask for feed back from these types of referees to learn and discuss the finer points of the games. one team had a great big center back that swept up just about everything, and would distribute to the mid field. one of the forwards for the other team took a shot at her pretty late after she dumped the ball in the defensive third to her outside back, and i waited and watched and allowed advantage. at half time, one of the critiques i got was that i shouldn't have allowed that advantage because there really wasn't any advantage to it. the ball is mired back in the defensive half of the field, go ahead and give the free kick. ok... so later in the game, halfway through the second half, same sort of thing happened, and for the third or fourth time the forward took a really late shot at the center back. so i immediately stopped play, gave a yellow for PI, and i could hear the the coach screaming at me. the center back had hit it long and picked out a winger flying down the touchline. i should have waited, watched, and given advantage there, then went back and carded the forward. after the game we talked about that too....... it's always a learning experience, and each play, no matter how similar it may look, can be very different.
 
baldref said:
it's definitely something that comes with experience to know when or when not to allow advantage. i was doing the ecnl playoffs last july i think it was, and one of the great things about being allowed to referee those types of games is that you get to work with many very high level and very knowledgeable and proficient referees. i had a center in a girls 17 game, and on one line i had a national referee, and on the other a very experienced state referee and assessor. you always ask for feed back from these types of referees to learn and discuss the finer points of the games. one team had a great big center back that swept up just about everything, and would distribute to the mid field. one of the forwards for the other team took a shot at her pretty late after she dumped the ball in the defensive third to her outside back, and i waited and watched and allowed advantage. at half time, one of the critiques i got was that i shouldn't have allowed that advantage because there really wasn't any advantage to it. the ball is mired back in the defensive half of the field, go ahead and give the free kick. ok... so later in the game, halfway through the second half, same sort of thing happened, and for the third or fourth time the forward took a really late shot at the center back. so i immediately stopped play, gave a yellow for PI, and i could hear the the coach screaming at me. the center back had hit it long and picked out a winger flying down the touchline. i should have waited, watched, and given advantage there, then went back and carded the forward. after the game we talked about that too....... it's always a learning experience, and each play, no matter how similar it may look, can be very different.
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What a horrible ref you are. You blew the game for them. They would have scored and won. You should quit now. Did you return your pay?

Or, way to try to protect a player, assess your call and get better.
 
coachrefparent said:
What a horrible ref you are. You blew the game for them. They would have scored and won. You should quit now. Did you return your pay?

Or, way to try to protect a player, assess your call and get better.
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Exactly. Just trying to make the point that the more times you're in that situation in high level games, the better you get at assessing the situation and "trying" to do the right thing for the game.
A good lesson in trying to make decisions just a bit slower. A late correct call is way better than a quick call that's less correct

And to be perfectly honest, I'd do those kind of games for free any time. So much fun in the middle of a game like that
 
The best part about these threads, and every other comment found on the internet in any form, is the lack of relative reference and perspective.

I am a parent, a coach, and a (shh) referee. Reading the comments of many lunatics on various forums is a bit hilarious. Especially when you see FIFA refs blowing clear calls in the world's biggest sport, in the biggest games of the year. And NFL referees that make over $10,000 per game blow numerous calls per game, that have to be corrected (sometimes) by other referees that get to watch views from 25 cameras in HD slowed down to split second frames at a time.

But of course, all youth soccer referee mistakes are forgiven if your team wins.
 
Mystery Train said:
This is a big thing for new soccer parents to understand. Definitely it is partly cultural for Americans. All but a very few addicted soccer fans ever watched professional soccer on TV. But we all have tons of experience watching American sports, where foul calls are much different. Football refs will often avoid calling holding penalties if the hold happened away from the action and did not influence the play, but for the most part, because of the way the game is played, any foul is an big advantage for the cheat (in football, the play continues and you can even decline the penalty), so they have to call what they see. This was hard to grasp at first when I started watching my kid play. Once I understood the above, some of the no calls made a whole lot more sense. Of course now that I get it, it just means I can scream "HEY REF! PLAY THE ADVANTAGE!" when they do call a foul they shouldn't have. Poor refs. LOL
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Ignorance of the game doesn't explain bad sideline behavior. In Europe where people have a pretty good understanding of the game and rules, touchline abuse even violence is a lot more common. Americans generally understand basketball, football and baseball, yet sideline behavior is not better. It's arguably worse. Even in our nicer and gentler neighbor Canada, sideline behavior is an issue. When refs berate parents for their ignorance of the game or rules or try to "educate" them, their focus is misplaced really.
 
Laced said:
Ignorance of the game doesn't explain bad sideline behavior. In Europe where people have a pretty good understanding of the game and rules, touchline abuse even violence is a lot more common. Americans generally understand basketball, football and baseball, yet sideline behavior is not better. It's arguably worse. Even in our nicer and gentler neighbor Canada, sideline behavior is an issue. When refs berate parents for their ignorance of the game or rules or try to "educate" them, their focus is misplaced really.
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your focus is misplaced, that's for sure. refs berate parents for their ignorance of the rules?
 
Laced said:
Did you not disparage parents the moment they disagree with you? Did you not say "You know nothing?" Did you not repeatedly claim to be "very good at it" whatever the issue. Of course, you have an entry-level license.
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you're not embarrassed by the things you say? i actually am embarrassed for you.

anyway..... have a nice day.
 
wildcat66 said:
Once again people make a big deal out of nothing. In addition to enforcing the holy "laws of the game" , soccer referees have some opinion that they are responsible to enforce morality, and manners when it comes to the crowd. If you think American parents and spectators are passionate about soccer, try going to a game in South America or Europe. Refs need to get a little less concerned with what is said on the sidelines and concentrate on the people playing the game. If as a ref you have a problem taking some guff from fans/spectators/parents maybe you are in the wrong line of work. Most refs i watch do a good job, they miss some calls that they probably should get but hey for the most part they do the best they can. The ones that I find amusing is the ones that have no tolerance for any type of what they perceive as disrespect or questioning. They are more worried about whether someones shirt is tucked in or some parent yelled than if the player is out of bounds. I am one of the "let them play" types because I believe soccer is a contact sport and sometimes people get hurt. When my daughter complains of someone grabbing her shirt or pushing her in the back, I am the guy who says quit your whining and elbow her in the nose next time. I guess that makes me part of the problem..it a "beautiful game" not a rugby match or hockey...
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I suggest you read up on Parents Code of Conduct and perhaps try to adhere to it. And before you spring that "South America or Europe" thing again, I would let you know I have refereed in both places and the spectators (who are usually not just confined to parents only unlike here), are not even half as ignorant, not to mention in South America they are so far away that who cares what they say anyway?
 
wildcat66 said:
You obviously don't know me, I maybe say ten words at a soccer game. I have never talked to a ref during a game in the 8 years or so that my kids have been playing. I don't even really like soccer to be honest because of the attitude of many in the sport. I am the guy that brings my kid, sits in my chair and watches and gets up and leaves when the game is over. i have been known to miss stuff that happens when i am reading the paper or checking my phone or chatting with someone from another game going on behind me. I am not one of the problem parents you guys have so much heartburn with. I think my total contact with my kids coach has been something like, "how u doing, hot today huh, or good game today." But, it doesn't take a soccer expert, or a referee card to see when a ref is so insecure or full of them self to let stuff go. All they do is make the situation worse. The problem with our society, we have turned into a bunch of candy asses who need to make sure that no one gets bullied or nobody gets their feelings hurt or disrespected. didn't your mamma ever tell you that "sticks and stones can break your bones but word can't hurt you?" I go to many high school football games, many of my neighbors and friend's kid's baseball games, the basketball tournaments, etc . I never see the officials worry about what the crowd says. Not once have I seen a football ref stop a game because someone in the bleachers was vocal about the call. I see it at youth soccer games all the time. I never encourage my kid to be an ass, in fact she knows better. Not once has she ever talked back or disrespected a ref, but she will not be a helpless victim either, who has to depend the the ref, a teacher or anyone else to protect her from harm. My daughter is a respectful warrior if anything else. I think you need to find another line of work bald ref, This kids soccer too rough for you. Some soccer mamma gonna question your manhood or something.....wow haven't typed that much since college
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I have never seen a soccer referee stop a game either because someone in the "bleachers" was vocal about a call. Where did you see this?
 
jdiaz said:
Their are good refs and refs . Good calls vs bad calls. What I want is a review board for theses refs to have a standard. You have calsouth in Thier golf carts observing the parents but what about the refs. I know refs don't like hear it but come on. Their needs to be system.
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There IS a system. There has always been.
 
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