SoCal Soccer Attitude Change

Seems like a good place to vent, but let me first say my problem isn't with bad calls and such. Parents need to chill out on the referees. Go referee an AYSO game and realize it's enormously difficult especially when you don't have any AR's

Ok with that being said, our U11's showed up at a game a few weeks back that somehow was being played on a full sized field with 8ft tall goals and one center referee. Forgetting the issue I have with the field, playing on a full size field should require at least two referees. It was impossible for this guy to have any idea when the girl was 10 yards off because he just finished chasing a play 70 yards only to see the defenders hammer a ball back the other direction.

Another game we showed up at this year the center referee, who should've been in a convalescent hospital rather than a soccer field, walks gingerly over to our sidelines informing us that he told the league he wasn't able to do games anymore at his age without AR's so we would play with clubs linesman who would only help on out of bounds. Game starts and our first two goals are called back by highly questionable offside calls made by the other teams parent.

If we can't attract enough referee's perhaps the compensation needs to be raised. In addition perhaps it's time to put a no-tolerance automatic ejection policy for parents that want to act like jerks on the sidelines. Also if it's true that the home teams hire the referee I'm not sure who thought that would be a good process.
 
timbuck said:
Kicked it to a girl that everyone thought was very much offside. I don't think think AR realized you can be offside on a free kick. He missed at least 5 throw ins the wrong way (both directions) , but I don't ever argue those.
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From experience as AYSO parent and referee: Teams get more than their unfair share of weak ARs (Regionals who can't handle the better play) at the U11-U12 Extra level.
 
softwaretest said:
Seems like a good place to vent, but let me first say my problem isn't with bad calls and such. Parents need to chill out on the referees. Go referee an AYSO game and realize it's enormously difficult especially when you don't have any AR's

Ok with that being said, our U11's showed up at a game a few weeks back that somehow was being played on a full sized field with 8ft tall goals and one center referee. Forgetting the issue I have with the field, playing on a full size field should require at least two referees. It was impossible for this guy to have any idea when the girl was 10 yards off because he just finished chasing a play 70 yards only to see the defenders hammer a ball back the other direction.

Another game we showed up at this year the center referee, who should've been in a convalescent hospital rather than a soccer field, walks gingerly over to our sidelines informing us that he told the league he wasn't able to do games anymore at his age without AR's so we would play with clubs linesman who would only help on out of bounds. Game starts and our first two goals are called back by highly questionable offside calls made by the other teams parent.

If we can't attract enough referee's perhaps the compensation needs to be raised. In addition perhaps it's time to put a no-tolerance automatic ejection policy for parents that want to act like jerks on the sidelines. Also if it's true that the home teams hire the referee I'm not sure who thought that would be a good process.
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First off a club lines person should only be able to call the ball out of the field of play. Not even direction is allowable.
Secondly, the referees are hired by the gaming circuit not the home team, even if they are paid by the home team.
Lastly, have your coach our team manager make a report that the referee could not do the job he / she was supposed to so he / she can be assigned to a better fit. (Or not at all)
That being said, I really love solo assignments of u-littles, and if the level is higher, it can be very challenging getting all the offsides correct. Some coaches think pushing a high line and trapping is a good idea with a solo ref. Might not be.
 
baldref said:
have your coach our team manager make a report that the referee could not do the job
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He actually requested that we file a report so they might figure out to stop assigning him solo lol. Really nice guy put in an impossible spot. Thanks for refereeing we need as many as we can get.
 
softwaretest said:
Seems like a good place to vent, but let me first say my problem isn't with bad calls and such. Parents need to chill out on the referees. Go referee an AYSO game and realize it's enormously difficult especially when you don't have any AR's

Ok with that being said, our U11's showed up at a game a few weeks back that somehow was being played on a full sized field with 8ft tall goals and one center referee. Forgetting the issue I have with the field, playing on a full size field should require at least two referees. It was impossible for this guy to have any idea when the girl was 10 yards off because he just finished chasing a play 70 yards only to see the defenders hammer a ball back the other direction.

Another game we showed up at this year the center referee, who should've been in a convalescent hospital rather than a soccer field, walks gingerly over to our sidelines informing us that he told the league he wasn't able to do games anymore at his age without AR's so we would play with clubs linesman who would only help on out of bounds. Game starts and our first two goals are called back by highly questionable offside calls made by the other teams parent.

If we can't attract enough referee's perhaps the compensation needs to be raised. In addition perhaps it's time to put a no-tolerance automatic ejection policy for parents that want to act like jerks on the sidelines. Also if it's true that the home teams hire the referee I'm not sure who thought that would be a good process.
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1. If it's possible to referee adult men with one referee why is it not possible to referee 10 year old girls with one? Personally I think it's more efficient refereeing U11 with one, rather than 3 referees.

2. The home team hiring referees thing is confined to only one area in CalSouth. That, plus other things make me it is one unique league amongst leagues.
 
Just a Parent said:
1. If it's possible to referee adult men with one referee why is it not possible to referee 10 year old girls with one? Personally I think it's more efficient refereeing U11 with one, rather than 3 referees.

2. The home team hiring referees thing is confined to only one area in CalSouth. That, plus other things make me it is one unique league amongst leagues.
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You know I'm a fan of yours, but did you add something here?
Condescending and unhelpful
And I guess this post isn't helpful either......
 
Just a Parent said:
1. If it's possible to referee adult men with one referee why is it not possible to referee 10 year old girls with one? Personally I think it's more efficient refereeing U11 with one, rather than 3 referees.
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I guess it's "possible", but the guys refereeing youngers games aren't generally in the gym all week preparing for that big U11 game on Sunday. That being said we did play on basically a full size field this weekend and the referee did a pretty good job it's just on average that they struggle to keep up. Which could lead to injuries as calls are missed and aggressive play takes over.
 
softwaretest said:
I guess it's "possible", but the guys refereeing youngers games aren't generally in the gym all week preparing for that big U11 game on Sunday. That being said we did play on basically a full size field this weekend and the referee did a pretty good job it's just on average that they struggle to keep up. Which could lead to injuries as calls are missed and aggressive play takes over.
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Perhaps. But I don't see you need much gym to efficiently referee U11 girls, full field or not.
 
Laced said:
How did the Referee Assignor arrived at the 50% attrition number? Is one season the time frame you seem to imply? Does it only include those who choose not to come back? When a parent shouts "That's a terrible call!" do you feel disrespected as a referee?
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The Assignor has been doing it for many years. I've also received similar comments from the President and Assignor for a local youth Rec league (that pays its referees). For a kid that loves soccer, you can't beat the pocket change ref'ing gets you v. working a minimum wage job, so the fact that so many drop out after 1 year tells us something is wrong and its not the money.

When a parent voices their displeasure with a controversial call, its part of the game. When a parent berates or personally attacks an AR or Ref for calls and causes other parents or players to adopt similar attitudes, then we have a serious problem and somebody is going to be watching the game from the parking lot. Because of my age and demeanor, there is nothing that anybody is going to say to me (46 years old) that will effect me. My 13 year old (3 years with a Grade 8), is another story, but to his credit he brushes off the idiot coaches with more maturity than he should have at his age.

I think the fundamental problem is that we as a society, not just soccer, have a problem understanding that you can disagree without being disrespectful.
 
Laced said:
How did the Referee Assignor arrived at the 50% attrition number? Is one season the time frame you seem to imply? Does it only include those who choose not to come back? When a parent shouts "That's a terrible call!" do you feel disrespected as a referee?
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Actually it is higher than 50 percent. In 2015 only 25 percent of new 2014 referees recertified. The number one reason for not recetifying was they were tired of being yelled at by coaches and parents.
 
Surfref said:
Actually it is higher than 50 percent. In 2015 only 25 percent of new 2014 referees recertified. The number one reason for not recetifying was they were tired of being yelled at by coaches and parents.
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Not to justify the yelling, but were these new refs new to youth club soccer as well? My kids been playing for 8 years and there has been yelling the whole time. I would assume that most youth players that ref have been playing so they should have been exposed to it already. Kind of like taking a job at a hospital and then quitting cause you didn't realize you had to work around sick people...
 
wildcat66 said:
Not to justify the yelling, but were these new refs new to youth club soccer as well? My kids been playing for 8 years and there has been yelling the whole time. I would assume that most youth players that ref have been playing so they should have been exposed to it already. Kind of like taking a job at a hospital and then quitting cause you didn't realize you had to work around sick people...
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The difference is, working around sick people is what you signed up for when you take a hospital job. Yelling is not what you signed up for when you sign up to referee.
 
softwaretest said:
I guess it's "possible", but the guys refereeing youngers games aren't generally in the gym all week preparing for that big U11 game on Sunday. That being said we did play on basically a full size field this weekend and the referee did a pretty good job it's just on average that they struggle to keep up. Which could lead to injuries as calls are missed and aggressive play takes over.
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I refereed two U11 and a U19 games today (center on one U11 and the U19). One U11 coach commented that I was the first State Referee he had ever had for this team's games. I am not in the gym everyday, but I do run everyday. I know plenty of good physically fit referees that work U11 games. We normally get assigned to 3-4 games on one field. Since the fields are full size, the teams can be U11 to U19. Maybe the assignor that your club works with is assigning the old referees. Have the club contact the assignor and complain.

As for the single referee complaint. If I can work a BU19 game as a single referee, than referees should have no problem as a single on U11 games.
 
wildcat66 said:
Not to justify the yelling, but were these new refs new to youth club soccer as well? My kids been playing for 8 years and there has been yelling the whole time. I would assume that most youth players that ref have been playing so they should have been exposed to it already. Kind of like taking a job at a hospital and then quitting cause you didn't realize you had to work around sick people...
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My DD played club for 10 years. She started to referee at 12 years old. When she was around 16 we were talking about a coach that yelled at her (AR) and the adult CR ejected the coach. She said as a player she does not hear all the yelling. She just concentrates on the game and what her teammates are saying. So, as a referee she got to hear what parents and coaches actually say. She was lucky and worked with some good CR that protected her and ejected plenty of parents and a couple of coaches who yelled at her.
 
Surfref said:
Since the fields are full size, the teams can be U11 to U19.
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I think that's part of the problem U11 is supposed to be on small field 9v9 but some clubs are just putting the games on whatever size field they want. In one case we show up and the goals are 8ft tall lol
 
Surfref said:
My DD played club for 10 years. She started to referee at 12 years old. When she was around 16 we were talking about a coach that yelled at her (AR) and the adult CR ejected the coach. She said as a player she does not hear all the yelling. She just concentrates on the game and what her teammates are saying. So, as a referee she got to hear what parents and coaches actually say. She was lucky and worked with some good CR that protected her and ejected plenty of parents and a couple of coaches who yelled at her.
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Yelling at a youth referee should be auto ejection with no warning. Geese it's not the World Cup.
 
Surfref said:
Actually it is higher than 50 percent. In 2015 only 25 percent of new 2014 referees recertified. The number one reason for not recetifying was they were tired of being yelled at by coaches and parents.
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I was questioning his reasoning. It's a classic case of argumentum ad verecundiam. If he wants to cite a stat to back up his argument, he should be able to vouch for its validity. The same applies to you.

The actual number shouldn't matter. Abuse is abuse. 100% retention rate doesn't justify abuse. No more than 1%.
 
I guess my main problems with the refs here is we have a different definition definition of the terms such as abuse and disrespect. I get that it is tough for some people to handle what I would call rude or obnoxious spectators. I would recommend that if you are one of those sensitive types you avoid jobs like referee, cop, military, etc . Parents get passionate about their keep kids. I would rather see a passionate fan willing to be a little abusive,etc that a bunch of disinterested opera goers who just sit there and stone faced watch the game. Sticks and stones break bones, words don't. I am raising my kids to be warriors/survivors so yelling is gonna go in one ear and out the door other for them. Probably why when their coaches have gotten upset with team my daughters teammates are all upset and she is smiling about how silly he sounded chewing them out. Toughen up people.
 
I'm not condoning abusive parent/coach behavior (I don't know why its necessary to issue the caveat when I talk about refs) but I think its too easy to solely blame parents/coaches for ref attrition. I can't speak for older teams but at the 9v9 level many of the refs are ill prepared for the game both in terms of temperament and knowledge of the game (particularly league rules). This year during league the reffing has just been short of atrocious. This example is indicative of what we have seen this year: A couple kids are in a 50/50 battle and the other coach yells "Call a foul" the ref thinks for a few seconds and looks at the other coach and says "You want a foul? Fine I'll call a foul on your team" and precedes to give us free kick from the refs position on the field.

I'm not giving refs a free pass but these ref associations do refs no favors by sending out refs that are not sufficiently trained (in both laws and game management). This problem is only compounded by the lack of supervision of these refs. Ultimately, "club" (aka expensive rec) soccer is a victim of its own success and its just numbers game and its not possible to find enough qualified refs, competent coaches and non-psycho parents.
 
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