And this is the knuckle head answer I would expect from a ref like you , not logical, not based on any type of actual regulation, just because the "authority vested in you" by the soccer gods. Just because you have donned the striped shirt, cheesy black shorts and socks pulled up to your waist and been ordained with a golden whistle and a couple of colored cards you must be the smartest guy on the field.....thats what they told you in ref school anyway....keep dreaming.
SoCal Soccer Attitude Change
- Thread starter Sentient Being
- Start date
baldref
GOLD
Genius answer
When people are over matched they insult and call names. Good luck to you.
coachrefparent
GOLD
You ask a lot of questions, but provide no answers. You seem to imply that some unaffiliated 3rd party fan (as if this exists at a youth soccer game), should be given more leeway to criticize the referees than the participants. That's crazy.
wildcat66, you really disagree with this? Of course anyone being abusive should be sent away. This is true at any youth event.
For me it is the definition of "abusive" I have said before i attend many sporting events and have rarely seen referees concern themselves with crowd, snide comments, or spectator noise, except in soccer. On Friday i was at the local football game and it happened to be homecoming for the local high school. The game was close and toward the end there was quite a few penalties which were all judgement calls. Of course depending on which way the call went the crowd was either for it or against it. There were a number of boos, come on Refs, etc etc coming from both sides...the coaches both came a little unglued as well. did the refs stop the game and caution the coach? NO. Did the ref engage anyone of the spectators about there comments? NO. They never even turned around and looked at the crowd. They just reffed the game and called them as they saw them....Eere they wrong in not giving everyone a lecture in proper sportsmanship and etiquette I guess by some people's standard they didn't do thier job. I feel that they just blocked it out and by doing so the game progressed without any problems.
baldref
GOLD
uhh, thought we were talking about referee abuse. Are you saying that by comparing soccer referees to football referees, I am not on the topic? All I am saying is that the refs would be better off if they just blocked out the crowd, coaches, etc and concentrated on the players and game. I get that the leagues have tasked you with being some sort of sportsmanship judge as well which is crazy in my book. If they want quiet, low energy crowds who only cheer positive reinforcing comments they need to supply crowd police or something.
coachrefparent
GOLD
At least you are starting to acknowledge that the leagues make the rules, not you. As noted, the rules are not the same nor are the environments.
High school football games are attended by thousands of people who are 20-50 yards from the officials. Individual jack-a$$es are mostly drowned out by the crowd. There is cheering, booing and comments flung around, but more of an overall drone from the fans.
Contrast this with a few dozen spectators aside. Located within feet (sometimes inches) from the officials. A completely different environment. According to your argument, fans should be able to yell at players during a round of competitive golf because they do at hockey and football games.
Even so, I've seen spectators ejected from high school sports of all kinds, the Ryder cup, MLB baseball, NFL, and even youth FNL football. And every last one of them felt they had a "right" to be a buffoon, the rules were too strict, and blamed the officials.
I agree that refs should be trained to block off crowd just like in the Europe, but as i learned reading posts from the local refs on this board training and rules prohibit them...community needs to put pressure on Cal South and other soccer governing bodies if they want change...in my opinion, lack of football culture dictates these rules, its hards to develop passionate support culture if officials have authority to expell sidelines in kids games...i wonder how many of these ref posting here visited youth or adult games in European countries and whats their opinion of crowds and their style of support?
baldref
GOLD
Once again, we're not in Europe.
I asked for an opinion, more politness would not hurt ref! Stating that we are not in Europe should what devalue my argument? Lmao
I have never bee to a competitive golf match? I am pretty sure I would fall asleep at that. And yest the leagues make the rules which in many cases is based on what is good for the league, not the players or even the sport. (thats a whole other topic) But when you look at the rules that the refs on here use to back up there argument (code of conduct) they are very general and purposely non specific as to how they must enforce them. "Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions" Thats where the referees have some leeway as to how to respond. In other aspects of the game you apply factors such as advantage, age of players, level of players, intentional or non intentional etc why not in crowd policing? I respect my father but he has made some stupid decisions a few times and I have told him. I respect my wife but there have been times we have disagreed. Using the soccer league logic she should have thrown me out of the house long ago because I didnt like to watch some chic flic.....
Surfref
PREMIER
Most parents are good spectators and cheer for their kids. I completely understand the occasional parent(s) that yell at me (sometimes they may actually have a better angle than me). That is just part of the game. The problem occurs when that parent(s) continue and keep the negative comments coming. The good coaches and managers will shut them up, if not than I will talk to the coach and ask the coach to quiet them. The last thing I want to do is have the coach remove a spectator. They pay a lot of money for their kid to play. But more importantly, they will embarrass their kid and miss seeing them play.
I as an adult have the experience and skills to deal with people yelling at me. A 13 year old youth referee has not developed those coping skills and a youth soccer game is not the appropriate place lace to learn.
I as an adult have the experience and skills to deal with people yelling at me. A 13 year old youth referee has not developed those coping skills and a youth soccer game is not the appropriate place lace to learn.
Surfref claims that there're specific rules pertaining to youth refs. He also claims LOTG allows him to consider "referee credibility" in his decisions, and a cap on fouls referees can call. What you quoted doesn't support any of those claims, unless you consider questions "in a pleasant tone" to be abuse.
Surfref
PREMIER
I cannot honestly hear the spectators when I work club, HS, adult or college games in a stadium. Most youth games have the parents 3-5 yards from the touch line, so I can hear everything said by the spectators. I have also officiated club and HS volleyball, baseball(worst spectators), and lacrosse. Baseball is far worse than soccer and club volleyball is about the same as soccer. I can usually block out the annoying parent, but when the players start to repeat the parents comments that is when I have to interact with the coach. What is so difficult about sitting there, listening to some music and watching your kid play some soccer without yelling at the referee?
Surfref
PREMIER
Go get referee qualified and learn. That is if you are physically able to run with 16-18 year old boys or girls for 90 minutes. Hopefully you are smart enough to read the game, tactics, read the players, make split second decisions, know all of the LOTG, Interpretations, gaming rules and how to apply them while doing a full speed sprint down the field. You would be surprised at the difficulty level. Maybe that is why 80 percent of new referees do not referee more than two years.
If you really want to watch you kid okay while yelling at the referee, than sit 25-30 yards off the touch line. The referee probably will not hear you then.
Enough soccer. Onto CalGuns to talk about my favorite hobbie, putting rounds down range.
Sheriff Joe
DA
SR, what is your favorite weapon? I am a single action, Colt 1911 guy myself and as rifles, Colt Le 6920 and win 300sm.
Eagle33
PREMIER
This is from SCDSL rules:
"Coaches are responsible for their team sideline and parent sideline and all actions therein. Coaches are expected
to coach their teams in a positive and respectful manner. The SCDSL encourages referees to discipline any coach
for irresponsible behavior if the coach, player or parent uses derogatory words or actions aimed at their players,
the opposing team’s players, coach or sideline or any of the referees".
Pretty simple and clear to me.
"Coaches are responsible for their team sideline and parent sideline and all actions therein. Coaches are expected
to coach their teams in a positive and respectful manner. The SCDSL encourages referees to discipline any coach
for irresponsible behavior if the coach, player or parent uses derogatory words or actions aimed at their players,
the opposing team’s players, coach or sideline or any of the referees".
Pretty simple and clear to me.
genesis
SILVER ELITE
What is the final issue here, sorry too lazy to read back but still want to comment on officials. Officials have improved significantly over the years, especially since I created this world. More players have become refs and they mostly understand the game, cynicism on the part of players, as well as the laws. Of course as a matter of perspective officials will make calls that are speculative in the eyes of the beholder. Unfortunately we have yet to design a system of perfection. The real crime is the lack of education on the part of spectators and coaches alike. Just walk an independent sideline and listen to the stupidity with respect to officiating. Just the understanding of off-sides and participation; all you can do is laugh, "COME ON REF". One more thing, leave the kids alone as they are the future of officiating; I for one don't want them to walk away. The word has been spoken!
Juvenile. Accusing me being one of the sideline idiots doesn't change the fact you made false claims.
Ultimately, the game belongs to the kids. It's their show. Not mine. Nor yours. But in the so many cute little stories you like to tell, you're usually the white knight. The main character. Never mind it's against referee ethics to talk about games. You want to "educate" us parents, as if LOTG is some mysterious document only you, with an entry-level license, can understand. As if working at MacDonald makes you a chef. You make up "rules of thumb" as if you don't have to work "within the framework" of LOTG. Don't want to get exposed? Simple. Don't pretend to be an authority on something you have a cursory understanding of. Don't cite rules that don't exist. You may or may not be an adequate youth referee. An authority on LOTG? Hardly.
In all seriousness, do clubs/teams have any say who refs their games? Is there a schedule that comes out ahead of time? If a coach knows that certain refs tend to call things that perhaps his team does can he request different refs? I don't mean having referees that are in your pocket but it is also understandable that certain refs have personal beliefs on how the game is suppose to be played and that may not be your style ie when my daughter played a couple years ago in Coast Silver Elite, most of the teams during the season were Inland empire clubs who played what I called "blue collar physical soccer" the refs seemed to understand that and wouldn't call many fouls. The Attitude seemed to be "let them play." A few of the teams were from Temecula or orange county and when those refs officiated they were calling things that the other refs just simply didn't call. Also not to be stereotypical but many of the more Hispanic dominated sidelines were a lot more vocal towards what was going on .... the inland empire refs didn't seem to care where as the Orange county refs were always cautioning coaches/parents etc. On the same note do the refs have any say who they will ref? ie Coach A and I have a history so it wouldn't be fair for me to be his ref because whatever.....just thinking what if ref was the cousin or something of the coach and opposing team knew it?