You're talking to yourself.
War in Ukraine soon?
- Thread starter blam
- Start date
You're talking to yourself.
whatithink
GOLD
So its our fault that Russia did its own thing and that Putin got control. Or is it our fault that a bunch of students and academics didn't succeed in building a utopia in Russia. I'm genuinely confused as to how Russia evolving to this is our fault.
I can get some fault for the lack of action against Russia for atrocities in Chechnya or the lack of sanctions over Georgia or Crimea. Sure, it could be the west's fault for allowing our financial systems to be used to funnel hundreds of billions out of Russia.
I don't buy into self flagellation because Putin's losing the plot. This isn't our fault, its on Putin, 100%.
whatithink
GOLD
lmao, you're telling me how to counter an argument - you're losing the run of yourself. Am I "arguing" with Putin through you or something? Seek help.
Oh Magoo you’ve done it again!
The west never understood Russia. The same way we thought we could build democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our elites created these circumstances. You have it on record when Romney (who btw is one of my least favorite politicians but when you are right you are right) warned about this and obama and the media just dumped on him. My only point is they got it wrong (yet again) the same way they missed 2008 or the same way they botched the covid response.
sure Putin is culpable. Sure you can blame him. For that matter you can go ahead and blame the Russian soldiers for not deserting or the Russian people for not rising up. Doesn’t mean this isn’t a f up for our leadership (whether d or r, European or American). For the record, I think Biden has done a pretty good job of managing things post war so far…my only complaint is he seems to be leading from behind and the Europeans have been much more proactive.
Just say, "bye bye." Blam is nailing it and so it Grace T. You guys went from Jab+booster+mask or your fired, to, "Russia Russia Russia." Espola is having flashbacks from the fear of hiding under his desk as kid in the 50s.
You think these guys were doing humanitarian work in the Ukraine? Crack pipe on every hole and all the booze and girls you want. Look at those four men, look again and what do you see? Be honest with yourself. Yet it was t that was peeing on models in Moscow? You guys are the biggest liars ever and now we will all soon find out wtf they are hiding and protecting in the Ukraine. I do pray for peace but something is not right again. I said this two years ago when they said, "15 days only to flat the made up curve and no mask, I promise." Add some summer riots and then lay the hammer down for one last effort and force the jab or get fired." Look folks, the two master chess players already know who has checkmate. It's game over. Light vs Dark and the Light wins. Checkmate!!! No more fear I swear. If you stop watching Tel A Vision so your not hypnotized, you too can live a free life on earth. You MUST love first and not live in fear. For example, when you wake up you go within and find the third eye. The third eye is pure light and love and no one can open the third eye without love. Money cannnot buy you into the third eye either. No sneaking in or being a poser for God and the Christ like George Soros did when he was a kid. That has to be the worse thing a man can do. Act like a follower of Yeshua and then do evil. Or, go to church camp to trick the girls.
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EU is working it hard to add Ukraine to the family. Interesting way to play war with our children. This is all duralism folks. Get a good taste of this war talk because they want war bad. It was their only move. Why the masks?
whatithink
GOLD
You can't compare Russia, Afghanistan & Iraq.
You're talking like we had a choice for Russia and choose wrong. It was never the west's choice. The goal was for Russia to become a capitalist democratic country and the strategy was to engage on those terms, financially, economically, and diplomatically. Russia took that and did its own thing. There's no history of democracy in Russia, it went from 400 years of Tsarist rule to 70 odd years of Communist autocratic rule to a few years of mayhem and then Putin. 2008 is probably when the west should have come down hard on Putin. The Russian military was weak, nukes aside, and they had no financial reserves to speak of. The financial crash put paid to that. We've had red flags since with Crimea, but did nothing of real substance.
You can see why Putin probably thought that invading the Ukraine will be a little painful economically for a year or so and then back to normal. I expect he's a little stunned at the shit storm that he has initiated and the uniform response from Europe in particular.
One would hope that lessons can be learned from this, but the basic premise of the west's approach is not flawed.
Wrong wrong and more wrong. Listen up all of you. They ((the higher ups who are assigned countries)) want all of us to fight and make war with each other on the planet. Hello, anyone home in your brain today? They want you to fight over all the "isms" and which ism is the best ism. Good luck fighting. I will sit over here and watch everyone looking for war or peace. Peace through strength, ya right. The real shit storm is the lying, spying and cheating about the jab, boosters with masks on all day and then stealing two years of peoples life. I'm hearing bio labs in Ukraine?
No one knows what you are talking about.
Liar, I do and I am someone, regardless if you ignore me and think nothing of me. Tried to kill me before I was born and here I am. I love the smell of fresh air in the morning. Birds are singing so happily and joyfully. What did you smell this morning Espola?
No just you…you never know what anyone is talking about
You and I agree then about 2008 (where we disagree is I think we’ve botched it all the way back through the bush and Clinton years…all the way back to the reconstruction of Russia).
I can’t remember who ran for president then. Do you? Hmmm…can’t be the same guy who slammed Romney for warning About Russia (and again I say this as someone who hates Romney and was an Obama fan girl).
Oh no...I am not arguing with you, maybe you are. I am not trying to prove to be the smartest guy in the room or the guy with the furthest piss. So its better that you quote from Putin directly instead of my pharaphrase.
From the beginning I had said I know little about this region of the world.
I am just trying to make sure that I am getting the story from both sides as a responsible American who have access to freedom of the press.
From what I have gathered, one side is pretending that this conflict just started 2 weeks ago and that a sovereign nation like Ukraine can do whatever it chooses to do. To the other side, this is like Cuban Crisis 2.0 that has brewed for at least 20 years with the ever expanding NATO.
I have to say, I tend to agree with JFK. We should never allow the Soviets to put their missiles on Cuba. I recalled as a kid, I did asked, why could an independent and soveriegn nation like Cuba not be allowed to put missiles that aims at the USA? What international law would that violate? Did JFK do the right thing?
The US also famously had missiles in Turkey which also borders the Soviet Union and were removed as part of the quid pro quo. The other thing is that became all moot a few years later with the advent of SSBNs.
It's sort of the same way with selfdetermination. We were all for it for the peoples of the Austro Hungarian Empire, but not so much for it for the people of Hawaii. Not so much for it with Nazi Germany. All for it with India, Israel and decolonization. Then all for it with German unification and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Not so much for it with Russians living in Ukraine or Kurds in Iraq. Then of course there's the south in our own civil war (but yeah, that gets, completely justifiably, waived away with the fact that the south kept a race in slavery with violence and the south wasn't really a unique people group separate from the rest of America)
Russian policy (or maybe Putin policy is more accurate) is way outside my league. It seems to me that the West's policies have been reactive, and not proactive, in fear of poking the bear. Plus it seems financial interests and energy policies that created vulnerabilities have made the West more deferential to Russia, than may have been warranted Like I said I'm out of my league just my layman's opinion.
It does seem that all credit goes to Ukraine. I don't think without their resolve that the West steps up and offers the weapons. It was only after a couple of days of Ukraine resistance that the West stepped up. Biden seemed more interested in getting Zelensky out of there than to offer defensive help. Like Zelensky said he doesn't need a ride, he needs bullets...and now probably everyday staples.
It does seem that all credit goes to Ukraine. I don't think without their resolve that the West steps up and offers the weapons. It was only after a couple of days of Ukraine resistance that the West stepped up. Biden seemed more interested in getting Zelensky out of there than to offer defensive help. Like Zelensky said he doesn't need a ride, he needs bullets...and now probably everyday staples.