War in Ukraine soon?

Hüsker Dü said:
"[In an] open society, the rule of the state is to protect the freedom of the individual. [In a] closed society, the role of the individual is to serve the rulers of the state."
"I think Ukraine today is rendering a tremendous service to Europe and to the western world and to open society and our survival because they are fighting our fight. They have a really good chance of winning...we must give them all the support that they ask for."
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I think Putin is rendering a tremendous service to the Russian people living in Ukraine. He is going to finally end the civil war and comply with their wishes to rejoin Russia. The internal strife between proEuro and proRussia will end with this division. Both sides can now part ways. The Russians living in Ukraine who previously had been forbidden to use the Russian language in Ukraine can now again use their own language.

Sorry, but it was never the intention of Russia to invade ALL of Ukraine. Russia from past actions have been selective on their targets. They are only in there to rescue the Russians who were oppressed in these nations. This pattern is seen in Georgia. This pattern is seen in Crimea. Both areas which had been occupied by Russia share 2 things in common

1. The population voted overwhelming to join Russia.
2. The population were suppressed through war and violence by their own government.

If Russia was going to invade ALL of Ukraine, then I would have been pro Ukraine. However, I have to use past actions to predict future actions.
 
blam said:
I think Putin is rendering a tremendous service to the Russian people living in Ukraine. He is going to finally end the civil war and comply with their wishes to rejoin Russia. The internal strife between proEuro and proRussia will end with this division. Both sides can now part ways. The Russians living in Ukraine who previously had been forbidden to use the Russian language in Ukraine can now again use their own language.

Sorry, but it was never the intention of Russia to invade ALL of Ukraine. Russia from past actions have been selective on their targets. They are only in there to rescue the Russians who were oppressed in these nations. This pattern is seen in Georgia. This pattern is seen in Crimea. Both areas which had been occupied by Russia share 2 things in common

1. The population voted overwhelming to join Russia.
2. The population were suppressed through war and violence by their own government.

If Russia was going to invade ALL of Ukraine, then I would have been pro Ukraine. However, I have to use past actions to predict future actions.
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Zelensky now wants all Ukraines to have their lives back. He said it's time for a meeting to get back to normal. War amd Covid make a few rich and a few who got fired for no jab or killed so others get rich
 
blam said:
I think Putin is rendering a tremendous service to the Russian people living in Ukraine. He is going to finally end the civil war and comply with their wishes to rejoin Russia. The internal strife between proEuro and proRussia will end with this division. Both sides can now part ways. The Russians living in Ukraine who previously had been forbidden to use the Russian language in Ukraine can now again use their own language.

Sorry, but it was never the intention of Russia to invade ALL of Ukraine. Russia from past actions have been selective on their targets. They are only in there to rescue the Russians who were oppressed in these nations. This pattern is seen in Georgia. This pattern is seen in Crimea. Both areas which had been occupied by Russia share 2 things in common

1. The population voted overwhelming to join Russia.
2. The population were suppressed through war and violence by their own government.

If Russia was going to invade ALL of Ukraine, then I would have been pro Ukraine. However, I have to use past actions to predict future actions.
Click to expand...
Come on blam blam...
Who certified the "overwhelming" vote to join Russia?
The Russians did attack all parts of Ukraine and why wouldn't they? The place was being governed by NAZI....

Pffff....
 
blam said:
I think Putin is rendering a tremendous service to the Russian people living in Ukraine. He is going to finally end the civil war and comply with their wishes to rejoin Russia. The internal strife between proEuro and proRussia will end with this division. Both sides can now part ways. The Russians living in Ukraine who previously had been forbidden to use the Russian language in Ukraine can now again use their own language.

Sorry, but it was never the intention of Russia to invade ALL of Ukraine. Russia from past actions have been selective on their targets. They are only in there to rescue the Russians who were oppressed in these nations. This pattern is seen in Georgia. This pattern is seen in Crimea. Both areas which had been occupied by Russia share 2 things in common

1. The population voted overwhelming to join Russia.
2. The population were suppressed through war and violence by their own government.

If Russia was going to invade ALL of Ukraine, then I would have been pro Ukraine. However, I have to use past actions to predict future actions.
Click to expand...
You are wrong.
 
The war is still going on and we just sent another $1.7B. Small Business is now at a 48 year low of any confidence. The losers plan was to destroy mom & pop small biz here in America and then send all the cash to Ukraine.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Endangering the nation/the free world in the name of domestic politics, in a desperate need of a win.
www.politico.com

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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Our border is a far more immediate threat to the US than Ukraine's border (i.e. stopping Russia from advancing their interests). I'm in favor of helping Ukraine, but right now its just a blank check with no limits or plan to end the conflict. A stalemate in Ukraine serves our purposes as well as Ukraine winning the war and getting their territory back. Both prevent Russia from invading a NATO country and starting World War III. Putin is losing even more support in his country although he is still in charge. His death cannot come soon enough. If something had been done (sanctions etc) when Putin was assembling his troops at the border, we wouldn't be in this mess, but Biden was too afraid to that it would antagonize Putin. Of course, maybe Biden was just following Obama's policy that Russia wasn't a geopolitical foe.
 
watfly said:
Our border is a far more immediate threat to the US than Ukraine's border (i.e. stopping Russia from advancing their interests). I'm in favor of helping Ukraine, but right now its just a blank check with no limits or plan to end the conflict. A stalemate in Ukraine serves our purposes as well as Ukraine winning the war and getting their territory back. Both prevent Russia from invading a NATO country and starting World War III. Putin is losing even more support in his country although he is still in charge. His death cannot come soon enough. If something had been done (sanctions etc) when Putin was assembling his troops at the border, we wouldn't be in this mess, but Biden was too afraid to that it would antagonize Putin. Of course, maybe Biden was just following Obama's policy that Russia wasn't a geopolitical foe.
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There's zero chance Russia will invade a NATO country. That type of hyperbolic nonsense is ridiculous.

Blaming Biden for Putin's actions is also fantasy thinking. Putin has given zero Fs about any US president's opinions or actions for decades. Sanctions cannot work - as has clearly been shown - when China & India in particular are happy to continue trading with Russia.

Putin is a lunatic with absolute power, a dictator and autocrat - it would be real handy if he would keel over, providing an alternative isn't worse!
 
whatithink said:
There's zero chance Russia will invade a NATO country. That type of hyperbolic nonsense is ridiculous.

Blaming Biden for Putin's actions is also fantasy thinking. Putin has given zero Fs about any US president's opinions or actions for decades. Sanctions cannot work - as has clearly been shown - when China & India in particular are happy to continue trading with Russia.

Putin is a lunatic with absolute power, a dictator and autocrat - it would be real handy if he would keel over, providing an alternative isn't worse!
Click to expand...
We need to deal with the war in our own country first and foremost. Liars, cheaters, assholes, killers, psychopaths, crackheads, Warhawks, thieves, Pedos and the like have destroyed our country.

Biden: "No question" Trump supported an insurrection.
 
whatithink said:
There's zero chance Russia will invade a NATO country. That type of hyperbolic nonsense is ridiculous.

Blaming Biden for Putin's actions is also fantasy thinking. Putin has given zero Fs about any US president's opinions or actions for decades. Sanctions cannot work - as has clearly been shown - when China & India in particular are happy to continue trading with Russia.

Putin is a lunatic with absolute power, a dictator and autocrat - it would be real handy if he would keel over, providing an alternative isn't worse!
Click to expand...
Correct there is zero chance that Putin will invade a NATO, now that its been depleted by the Ukraine war(1). That's my point. However, Biden did absolutely nothing though when Russia assembled its troops on the border. Putin deserves the abundance of the blame, but Biden folded like a cheap tent. Yes, Putin is a lunatic (although not completely disconnected from reality), but his power is not mitigated when the US shows weakness. I'd try looking at the facts, Russia invaded Crimea under Obama and Ukraine under Biden. Oddly, Russia did nothing when Trump was president. Despite the fact that Trump bombed Russian military assets in Syria. Remember, your media said Trump's actions against Syria/Russia would start WW3.
www.usatoday.com

Is this the start of World War III? That's what people are worried about

President Trump ordered a missile launch against Syria on Friday, in response to a chemical weapons attack.
www.usatoday.com

When in reality it sent a message to Putin that we weren't going to tolerate his BS. Do you actually think its just a coincidence that Russia stayed put during the Trump administration? If you do, you're seriously disconnected from reality. Now, I concede that Trump's unpredictability might of also discouraged Putin from trying anything. I'm a firm believer in "peace through strength" because its historically proven to be effective.

So what's your position on funding Ukraine? I assume you are against it since you believe invading Poland is hyperbolic nonsense. Otherwise, what's our strategic benefit to helping a country that's at this point far from being a democracy? You seem to be talking out both sides of your mouth. Putin is a lunatic, but he wouldn't invade Poland (despite Russian threats to do so)? How do you reconcile those two statements?

I enjoy the irony of your claim of hyperbolic nonsense when you believe that that Palestinians plight is the fault of Israel. That's just comical and completely ignores the long history of the violence, barbarism and complete dismissal of a two-state solution by the majority of Palestinians (at least those in Gaza and the West Bank). Not only historically, but were seeing it in real time. Palestinians have never honored peace for land.

(1) It's not hyperbolic nonsense when Russian authorities have threatened to attack Poland and Russia has a history of invading other countries.
 
watfly said:
Correct there is zero chance that Putin will invade a NATO, now that its been depleted by the Ukraine war(1). That's my point. However, Biden did absolutely nothing though when Russia assembled its troops on the border. Putin deserves the abundance of the blame, but Biden folded like a cheap tent. Yes, Putin is a lunatic (although not completely disconnected from reality), but his power is not mitigated when the US shows weakness. I'd try looking at the facts, Russia invaded Crimea under Obama and Ukraine under Biden. Oddly, Russia did nothing when Trump was president. Despite the fact that Trump bombed Russian military assets in Syria. Remember, your media said Trump's actions against Syria/Russia would start WW3.
www.usatoday.com

Is this the start of World War III? That's what people are worried about

President Trump ordered a missile launch against Syria on Friday, in response to a chemical weapons attack.
www.usatoday.com

When in reality it sent a message to Putin that we weren't going to tolerate his BS. Do you actually think its just a coincidence that Russia stayed put during the Trump administration? If you do, you're seriously disconnected from reality. Now, I concede that Trump's unpredictability might of also discouraged Putin from trying anything. I'm a firm believer in "peace through strength" because its historically proven to be effective.

So what's your position on funding Ukraine? I assume you are against it since you believe invading Poland is hyperbolic nonsense. Otherwise, what's our strategic benefit to helping a country that's at this point far from being a democracy? You seem to be talking out both sides of your mouth. Putin is a lunatic, but he wouldn't invade Poland (despite Russian threats to do so)? How do you reconcile those two statements?

I enjoy the irony of your claim of hyperbolic nonsense when you believe that that Palestinians plight is the fault of Israel. That's just comical and completely ignores the long history of the violence, barbarism and complete dismissal of a two-state solution by the majority of Palestinians (at least those in Gaza and the West Bank). Not only historically, but were seeing it in real time. Palestinians have never honored peace for land.

(1) It's not hyperbolic nonsense when Russian authorities have threatened to attack Poland and Russia has a history of invading other countries.
Click to expand...
Christ you're desperate for an argument, even to extent of thinking for me and forming my opinions for me!

Without the Europeans, any sanctions against Russia were toothless. European reliance on Russia for oil and gas meant they treated Putin with kids gloves, even being reticent about harsher sanctions after the invasion (e.g. SWIFT & sanctioning Putin himself).

Its certainly possible that Putin was afraid of Trump, although the Covid thing from 2019-2020 may have curtailed Putin's expansionist ambitions a bit too or at least impacted the timeline.

I'm no media mogul, so I've no idea where you get the "your media" narrative.

I'm for funding for Ukraine BTW. Their president is democratically elected. The next elections are due in March but can't proceed because the country is at war and under marital law, and Ukraine's laws prohibit elections if under martial law. Ukraine can change that law, its their choice.

Not sure why you are bringing the Palestinian/Israeli thing into this thread. Thanks for forming my opinions for me on it though, it saves me the effort I suppose :confused:
 
watfly said:
Correct there is zero chance that Putin will invade a NATO, now that its been depleted by the Ukraine war(1). That's my point. However, Biden did absolutely nothing though when Russia assembled its troops on the border. Putin deserves the abundance of the blame, but Biden folded like a cheap tent. Yes, Putin is a lunatic (although not completely disconnected from reality), but his power is not mitigated when the US shows weakness. I'd try looking at the facts, Russia invaded Crimea under Obama and Ukraine under Biden. Oddly, Russia did nothing when Trump was president. Despite the fact that Trump bombed Russian military assets in Syria. Remember, your media said Trump's actions against Syria/Russia would start WW3.
www.usatoday.com

Is this the start of World War III? That's what people are worried about

President Trump ordered a missile launch against Syria on Friday, in response to a chemical weapons attack.
www.usatoday.com

When in reality it sent a message to Putin that we weren't going to tolerate his BS. Do you actually think its just a coincidence that Russia stayed put during the Trump administration? If you do, you're seriously disconnected from reality. Now, I concede that Trump's unpredictability might of also discouraged Putin from trying anything. I'm a firm believer in "peace through strength" because its historically proven to be effective.

So what's your position on funding Ukraine? I assume you are against it since you believe invading Poland is hyperbolic nonsense. Otherwise, what's our strategic benefit to helping a country that's at this point far from being a democracy? You seem to be talking out both sides of your mouth. Putin is a lunatic, but he wouldn't invade Poland (despite Russian threats to do so)? How do you reconcile those two statements?

I enjoy the irony of your claim of hyperbolic nonsense when you believe that that Palestinians plight is the fault of Israel. That's just comical and completely ignores the long history of the violence, barbarism and complete dismissal of a two-state solution by the majority of Palestinians (at least those in Gaza and the West Bank). Not only historically, but were seeing it in real time. Palestinians have never honored peace for land.

(1) It's not hyperbolic nonsense when Russian authorities have threatened to attack Poland and Russia has a history of invading other countries.
Click to expand...
Trump has that Midas touch. Trump is 5 moves ahead in 5D Chess and has something over every country. I shared this before and it's worth watching and repeating. Trump took down all the Top Pedos and the Old Guard (The ultra rich power players we never see). The best way to catch the rest of their under links and those who sold us all out for money were tricked into a trap. That's why Space Force was invented. This is what I think, whatithink.

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE OLD GUARD - WHERE WE GO ONE WE GO ALL (rumble.com)

In 2017 folks Trump had everyone by the balls and went around the world making deals with these sickos. Each sicko was given a chance to capitulate, play a role in the movie or go down with the sinking ship because of treason and their crimes against humanity. Trump and Space Force allowed the rest of the losers to cheat and steal, just like all the punks that do the Grab & Go for under $900 and never get arrested. The one's at the top of this pyramid are just more high-end type of thieves, WHO use children to make a buck. This place is so fuked up. We have a lot of healing that needs to take place. My pal is finally waking up. All of this weird and evil behavior ties to Gates and Epstein is about to be exposed for the world to see. I said this as well that Epsteins last words before he killed himself was, "Fuck you, Bill."
 
whatithink said:
Christ you're desperate for an argument, even to extent of thinking for me and forming my opinions for me!

Without the Europeans, any sanctions against Russia were toothless. European reliance on Russia for oil and gas meant they treated Putin with kids gloves, even being reticent about harsher sanctions after the invasion (e.g. SWIFT & sanctioning Putin himself).

Its certainly possible that Putin was afraid of Trump, although the Covid thing from 2019-2020 may have curtailed Putin's expansionist ambitions a bit too or at least impacted the timeline.

I'm no media mogul, so I've no idea where you get the "your media" narrative.

I'm for funding for Ukraine BTW. Their president is democratically elected. The next elections are due in March but can't proceed because the country is at war and under marital law, and Ukraine's laws prohibit elections if under martial law. Ukraine can change that law, its their choice.

Not sure why you are bringing the Palestinian/Israeli thing into this thread. Thanks for forming my opinions for me on it though, it saves me the effort I suppose :confused:
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Desperate for an argument? You seemed to be begging for an argument when you said "that type of hyperbolic nonsense is ridiculous". In the past our debates have always been civil and focused on substance, not unsubstantiated exclamations or arguably ad-hominems.

If I'm misquoting your position on Palestinians, then my apologies. My recollection is that you said most Palestinians were in favor of a two state solution and that Israelis were responsible, in part, for the plight of Palestinians. It seemed pretty obvious to me that you were trying to "both-sides" the conflict. Now given what we've seen the last couple of months maybe your position has changed, or maybe I just assumed too much. I admit to being triggered by the pervasive Jew hate I've seen the last couple of months in our own country, mostly in our academic and political institutions. The rank hypocrisy from many "progressives" (kudos though to Dems like Schumer, C. Coumo, Maher), and the lack of accountability for Jew hate, has been mind boggling to me. At the time, you questioned who was rationalizing the murder of Jews. Given what has occurred over the last couple of months, I trust you clearly see that there are many from the "pro-Palestinian" side that are in fact doing just that, but I also consider not condemning the genocide of Jews to be the same as rationalizing it...but maybe that's just me. It's disappointing to see how the condemnation of hate is conditioned on someone's political narrative.
 
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