War in Ukraine soon?

Brav520 said:
nope, this explanation from the VP is perfect for me
Click to expand...

Your neighbour decides to point a gun through your bedroom window. The gun is all on his property and he promises he is not going to shoot. He will only shoot if you misbehave but if you do not misbehave, the gun will never be used. It is for peace. Is it ok for him to do that?

If Cuba were to join into a military aliance with Russia and position missiles at the USA, is that ok?

This is the other side of the coin. NATO is continually expanding and is now on the eve of expanding into Ukraine.





I will spare reitireating the other side of the coin..well maybe i will to be fair. The other side is Russia is a big nation, and it invades a smaller nation. The smaller nation is not allowed sovereignty in deciding its own fate(joining NATO). Then there is alllegation that this is nothing but a land grab by Putin.
 
blam said:
"The developments of the past few decades has erased a lot of the optimism I’d had back in the Yeltsin days, "

I am always confused by this sentiment. Is Yeltsin such a great leader for Russia? Would you want him to be President of the USA? I would want him to be president of my enemy, but not my own president. But if he is really a great leader, please fill me in. I must be missing something.
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He was transitioning towards capitalism for Russia and freedom for the Russian people.
It’s in all the history books . . .
 
blam said:
"The developments of the past few decades has erased a lot of the optimism I’d had back in the Yeltsin days, "

I am always confused by this sentiment. Is Yeltsin such a great leader for Russia? Would you want him to be President of the USA? I would want him to be president of my enemy, but not my own president. But if he is really a great leader, please fill me in. I must be missing something.
Click to expand...

Why does everything have to be black and white with people. He was great: he stood up to the Soviet coup, he transitioned away from the Soviet Union and adopted a democratic constitution, he dismantled the communist party, he transitioned to capitalism. He was awful: he was a drunkard and a fool (particularly at the end), he handled the transition to capitalism horribly (allowing basically the looting of the assets by a handful of oligarchs), he allowed corruption to flourish, he weakened the Russian military and allowed for the spread of separatism and terrorism, and he laid the foundations for the end of democracy in russia by bringing people like Putin into the fold. It's nuanced.
 
Grace T. said:
Why does everything have to be black and white with people. He was great: he stood up to the Soviet coup, he transitioned away from the Soviet Union and adopted a democratic constitution, he dismantled the communist party, he transitioned to capitalism. He was awful: he was a drunkard and a fool (particularly at the end), he handled the transition to capitalism horribly (allowing basically the looting of the assets by a handful of oligarchs), he allowed corruption to flourish, he weakened the Russian military and allowed for the spread of separatism and terrorism, and he laid the foundations for the end of democracy in russia by bringing people like Putin into the fold. It's nuanced.
Click to expand...
Also, one could add that since the Tsar there has been exactly one Russian leader who was not an autocrat, i.e. Yeltsin. So, while he had his flaws and made mistakes, he's better than all the rest with ease. (Including the Tsar's, he the only non-autocrat in 500 years - that's crazy really).

So yeah, people put him up there as a "great" leader, because relative to all the others, he was certainly great (& brave, although maybe the vodka helped with that).
 
whatithink said:
Also, one could add that since the Tsar there has been exactly one Russian leader who was not an autocrat, i.e. Yeltsin. So, while he had his flaws and made mistakes, he's better than all the rest with ease. (Including the Tsar's, he the only non-autocrat in 500 years - that's crazy really).

So yeah, people put him up there as a "great" leader, because relative to all the others, he was certainly great (& brave, although maybe the vodka helped with that).
Click to expand...

Not a Kerensky fan I see.

In other news, Ukraine is saying more than 5,300 Russians have been killed in the invasion. Western intelligence thinks that number is too high and probably wraps in the wounded, but they are guessing 2,000 killed which puts it roughly the same losses as the US with 20 years fighting in Afghanistan and that's before the so-called "final offensives" on Kiev and Kharkiv. There are reports that news of the deaths are beginning to trickle into Russian villages.
 
blam said:
Your neighbour decides to point a gun through your bedroom window. The gun is all on his property and he promises he is not going to shoot. He will only shoot if you misbehave but if you do not misbehave, the gun will never be used. It is for peace. Is it ok for him to do that?

If Cuba were to join into a military aliance with Russia and position missiles at the USA, is that ok?

This is the other side of the coin. NATO is continually expanding and is now on the eve of expanding into Ukraine.





I will spare reitireating the other side of the coin..well maybe i will to be fair. The other side is Russia is a big nation, and it invades a smaller nation. The smaller nation is not allowed sovereignty in deciding its own fate(joining NATO). Then there is alllegation that this is nothing but a land grab by Putin.
Click to expand...
Dont forget Human Trafficking and all the deals the Senator's Sons got in the Ukraine. Soros lives their as well. I read some insane stuff I dont put on here because no one would believe me. Club 33 is real!!!
 
whatithink said:
Also, one could add that since the Tsar there has been exactly one Russian leader who was not an autocrat, i.e. Yeltsin. So, while he had his flaws and made mistakes, he's better than all the rest with ease. (Including the Tsar's, he the only non-autocrat in 500 years - that's crazy really).

So yeah, people put him up there as a "great" leader, because relative to all the others, he was certainly great (& brave, although maybe the vodka helped with that).
Click to expand...
Missing the “days of” and saying someone was a great leader are different things, but I digress.
 
I thought this was a very powerful interview (and yes I know the issues with a no fly zone and that was only a small part of the interview).

www.today.com

Ukrainian official calls for no-fly zone: We need the protection of the sky

Oleksandra Ustinova, a member of the Ukrainian Parliament, joins TODAY with Savannah Guthrie to talk about her disappointment with President Biden’s State of the Union address saying, “Today the whole world is watching Ukrainians being executed,” adding "we are grateful for help, but we need...
www.today.com www.today.com
 
watfly said:
I thought this was a very powerful interview (and yes I know the issues with a no fly zone and that was only a small part of the interview).

www.today.com

Ukrainian official calls for no-fly zone: We need the protection of the sky

Oleksandra Ustinova, a member of the Ukrainian Parliament, joins TODAY with Savannah Guthrie to talk about her disappointment with President Biden’s State of the Union address saying, “Today the whole world is watching Ukrainians being executed,” adding "we are grateful for help, but we need...
www.today.com www.today.com
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So you like her support a full fledged war between super powers? Zelensky has said he doesn’t want to drag the world into it. He says send weapons and ammo not soldiers.
Are you one of those that have called Liz Cheney a warmonger in your reasoning for dismissing her then now want to call Biden wuss for not carpet bombing Russia and Russians?
 
I see the the leader of the GOP has reversed tact and now says the invasion of Ukraine is a “holocaust”. So Putin is no longer a “genius”? It wasn’t longer “a brilliant move” by Putin?
 
Hüsker Dü said:
So you like her support a full fledged war between super powers? Zelensky has said he doesn’t want to drag the world into it. He says send weapons and ammo not soldiers.
Are you one of those that have called Liz Cheney a warmonger in your reasoning for dismissing her then now want to call Biden wuss for not carpet bombing Russia and Russians?
Click to expand...
No Husker, I'm not in favor of any of that (and have no clue what your talking about in regards to Cheney and Biden). I just thought it was a powerful interview and shows the desperation of the Ukranian people. A no fly zone appears to be a bad idea for the US, but I can appreciate her point of view. It's easy for us to sit here and wax philosophical about military policy when were not about to be bombed any minute. The Ukranians are putting up a noble resistance but are effectively sitting ducks at this point. Like she said "Putin is a psycho" and doesn't need any reason to be provoked.

Question for anyone. Is their no way to get humanitarian aid into Ukraine at this point? Can we not air drop food, medicine etc into the country? When I say we, I don't necessarily mean US flagged aircraft, but what about the international Red Cross via air or ground?
 
Hüsker Dü said:
So you like her support a full fledged war between super powers? Zelensky has said he doesn’t want to drag the world into it. He says send weapons and ammo not soldiers.
Are you one of those that have called Liz Cheney a warmonger in your reasoning for dismissing her then now want to call Biden wuss for not carpet bombing Russia and Russians?
Click to expand...
Ukraine is now asking for a no fly zone.

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | I’m Writing From a Bunker With President Zelensky Beside Me. We Will Fight to the Last Breath. (Published 2022)

Nothing less than our freedom — and yours — is at stake.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

We should also send weapons and ammo.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
He was transitioning towards capitalism for Russia and freedom for the Russian people.
It’s in all the history books . . .
Click to expand...

Capitalism is good. It is the first step towards socialism.

As for freedom, the most important freedom is not political freedom. It is financial freedom. I know textbooks do not emphasize this, always going after some utopia freedom from outdated 18th century enlightenment ideas but financial freedom is what matters to the average person. What is the point of living in a free country where you have to slave away at a job. Then there is freedom to think but that is at the individual level.

Even taking the example of the US, which we are all brainwashed into believing it stands for freedom, it is overrated. There is actually a whole lot of restrictions on what you can do. They come in the form of state laws, codes, and even home owner association rules. All these combine and no surprise that I actually think I have less freedom in the US. An an example, I cannot paint my house purple unless my HOA approves it and they will not approve purple. Freedom. In Mexico, I can paint my house purple or whatever. Recently, San Diego passed a law that forbids you from opening a food stand in some area (I do not live there so I did not take note). Then you cannot drink beer on some beaches due to local codes etc. etc.. Many more examples. Lots of rules in the USA that restricts what you can or cannot do.

One issue I see with democracy that is practised in many countries is it leads to instability. The USA does not have this issue because the democracy practised here is quite unique. It is actually better characterized as a 2 party system (vs multi party system). 3rd parties stand no chance of winning the presidency, so there is a high degree of predictability, the outcome of the winner is either a Republican or a Democrat. There is no surprise dark horse from a 3rd party. Then the president becomes a dictator for the next 4 years. There is no vote of confidence which would cause him to lose his position which would lead to instability.

So financial freedom is the most important because it is tangible and meaningful to the average person. There is no need to rush for political freedom. Even in the USA, political freedom did not come in 1776. In 1776, only those with land could vote. It took many decades of struggle, supreme court decisions to reach the state it is in. Mankind has survived for thousands of years without political freedom and there is no harm waiting another hundred years for the whole world to enjoy political freedom. Financial freedom is more important. We need to get the whole world out of poverty quickly so that the standard of living of the average human can improve.
 
watfly said:
No Husker, I'm not in favor of any of that (and have no clue what your talking about in regards to Cheney and Biden). I just thought it was a powerful interview and shows the desperation of the Ukranian people. A no fly zone appears to be a bad idea for the US, but I can appreciate her point of view. It's easy for us to sit here and wax philosophical about military policy when were not about to be bombed any minute. The Ukranians are putting up a noble resistance but are effectively sitting ducks at this point. Like she said "Putin is a psycho" and doesn't need any reason to be provoked.

Question for anyone. Is their no way to get humanitarian aid into Ukraine at this point? Can we not air drop food, medicine etc into the country? When I say we, I don't necessarily mean US flagged aircraft, but what about the international Red Cross via air or ground?
Click to expand...
www.cbsnews.com

Want to help people in Ukraine? Here are ways to donate

As the fighting intensifies, groups helping injured and needy civilians in Ukraine are appealing for help.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
watfly said:
No Husker, I'm not in favor of any of that (and have no clue what your talking about in regards to Cheney and Biden). I just thought it was a powerful interview and shows the desperation of the Ukranian people. A no fly zone appears to be a bad idea for the US, but I can appreciate her point of view. It's easy for us to sit here and wax philosophical about military policy when were not about to be bombed any minute. The Ukranians are putting up a noble resistance but are effectively sitting ducks at this point. Like she said "Putin is a psycho" and doesn't need any reason to be provoked.

Question for anyone. Is their no way to get humanitarian aid into Ukraine at this point? Can we not air drop food, medicine etc into the country? When I say we, I don't necessarily mean US flagged aircraft, but what about the international Red Cross via air or ground?
Click to expand...
I too wish we could do something both militarily and in relief. I am watching video of Russian soldiers pilfering banks and scouring the area for food. So air drops might be fought over more intensely than anything else.
My thought was unmarked drones bombing Russian supply lines and their unfurled convoy? I am admittedly naive in the ways of modern warfare (and it’s been decades since I read The Art of War, lol!) so . . .
Wherever this goes I know one thing, Putin must be 100% persona non grata on the world stage. A Ghaddafi ending would be ideal.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
I too wish we could do something both militarily and in relief. I am watching video of Russian soldiers pilfering banks and scouring the area for food. So air drops might be fought over more intensely than anything else.
My thought was unmarked drones bombing Russian supply lines and their unfurled convoy? I am admittedly naive in the ways of modern warfare (and it’s been decades since I read The Art of War, lol!) so . . .
Wherever this goes I know one thing, Putin must be 100% persona non grata on the world stage. A Ghaddafi ending would be ideal.
Click to expand...
The Russian convoy would seem to be sitting ducks if Ukraine had any sort of air attack resources. I don't really want to see young Russian soldiers slaughtered either. It's hard to know what to believe, but the soldiers are likely also victims of Putin delusions.
 
blam said:
Capitalism is good. It is the first step towards socialism.

As for freedom, the most important freedom is not political freedom. It is financial freedom. I know textbooks do not emphasize this, always going after some utopia freedom from outdated 18th century enlightenment ideas but financial freedom is what matters to the average person. What is the point of living in a free country where you have to slave away at a job. Then there is freedom to think but that is at the individual level.

Even taking the example of the US, which we are all brainwashed into believing it stands for freedom, it is overrated. There is actually a whole lot of restrictions on what you can do. They come in the form of state laws, codes, and even home owner association rules. All these combine and no surprise that I actually think I have less freedom in the US. An an example, I cannot paint my house purple unless my HOA approves it and they will not approve purple. Freedom. In Mexico, I can paint my house purple or whatever. Recently, San Diego passed a law that forbids you from opening a food stand in some area (I do not live there so I did not take note). Then you cannot drink beer on some beaches due to local codes etc. etc.. Many more examples. Lots of rules in the USA that restricts what you can or cannot do.

One issue I see with democracy that is practised in many countries is it leads to instability. The USA does not have this issue because the democracy practised here is quite unique. It is actually better characterized as a 2 party system (vs multi party system). 3rd parties stand no chance of winning the presidency, so there is a high degree of predictability, the outcome of the winner is either a Republican or a Democrat. There is no surprise dark horse from a 3rd party. Then the president becomes a dictator for the next 4 years. There is no vote of confidence which would cause him to lose his position which would lead to instability.

So financial freedom is the most important because it is tangible and meaningful to the average person. There is no need to rush for political freedom. Even in the USA, political freedom did not come in 1776. In 1776, only those with land could vote. It took many decades of struggle, supreme court decisions to reach the state it is in. Mankind has survived for thousands of years without political freedom and there is no harm waiting another hundred years for the whole world to enjoy political freedom. Financial freedom is more important. We need to get the whole world out of poverty quickly so that the standard of living of the average human can improve.
Click to expand...
There’s a lot to unpack there. Some things you got wrong, some you seem to misunderstand and the last part was very true.
From first hand knowledge in Baja there are the same type HOA restrictions in certain communities.
Here in San Diego huge parties that turned into riots on the beach and bay helped put an end to drinking on the beach. Like always civilizations need to protect the majority from the idiots. When your freedom encroaches on mine is that freedom?
I do live where unlicensed vendors were setting up shop on the sidewalks and all over the Veteran’s Plaza. Selling food, trinkets, edibles and some openly selling cannabis. Who’s freedom is that?
Not a lot of “instability” in the democracies I know of, any examples of where it isn’t working?
 
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